Curse

Age · Jul 22, 2005, 09:18 PM // 21:18

I always find that reversal of fortune doesn't work well on an ally as well as my self.In this thead I nver heard of anyone saying anything about Monk/Warrior build which are true protectionist or smiting Monks they can use weapons.I would tend to assume that Monk/Mesmur would be good healing Monk.It would be nice to have slighty more energy but learning how to manage it is the key.

Ollj · Jul 22, 2005, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Yes man, hex breaker ends if a hex is cast on you.

Formular is still under construction and yes, i just made it up, but there is a point to it.
It only shows how much the skill effectiviness increases (relatively) only by ints numbers.
its clear that more increasing skills are worth more atribute oints and others are worth much even with less atribute points, thats all of it!

Formular is only for the skill itself ignoring all other skills and classes and builds and combos.
obviously you dont read that completly.

Jul 22, 2005, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

!

Formular is only for the skill itself ignoring all other skills and classes and builds and combos.

So whats the point of it?

theclam · Jul 22, 2005, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I always find that reversal of fortune doesn't work well on an ally as well as my self.In this thead I nver heard of anyone saying anything about Monk/Warrior build which are true protectionist or smiting Monks they can use weapons.I would tend to assume that Monk/Mesmur would be good healing Monk.It would be nice to have slighty more energy but learning how to manage it is the key.

Actually, Mo/E are the best at protection. Smiting Monks work well with many different secondary (and primary, for that matter) professions. Mo/Me make great Smiters.

ICURADik · Jul 23, 2005, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitsu Bishi

RoF is very situational unfortunately. It can heal for a measly 70 (50 divine favor and 10 damage prevented + healed) but it can also "heal" for numbers in the 200 range (50 divine favor, 100 prevented, 50 healed @ ~7 protection).

This makes no sense. @ 7 protection it prevents up to 45 and heals for another 45. That's a maximum amount of 90 damage prevention along with the DF bonus. It's still a great skill, I'm just trying to figure out where 200 came from. Maybe if you were also running boon and had 10 or so in protection you would see 200 damage "prevention/healing" totals.

ICURADik · Jul 23, 2005, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by theclam

Actually, Mo/E are the best at protection. Smiting Monks work well with many different secondary (and primary, for that matter) professions. Mo/Me make great Smiters.

Mo/E don't have the energy to maintain wards and cast protection spells unless they are purely lifebond/blessed sig bots.

ICURADik · Jul 23, 2005, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

Protective spirits is NOT only against physical!
It is only against attacks, so mostly against warrior and ranger skills and players that just attack with their weapon.
but attacks can do all kind of damage (with mods on the weapon).
And yes, protective spirit ignores all the elemental skills, hexes and such.

Protective spirit works on All damage. Don't know what your talking about here.

Neo-LD · Jul 23, 2005, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Nice triple post ICURADik. Thx for highjacking my thread Ollj.

@ ICURADik

Mo/anything can be a prot, but I think what is meant by the advocates of Mo/W and Mo/E is that they can advance the theme of preventing damage through armor of earth or watch yourself.

At high levels, RoF can prevent 65, heal 65, and DF can give around 40, so you could get up in the range of 170. If you get lucky.

ANd yes, protective spirit works on ALL damage.

@Ollj

Almost every skill advances linearly, the difference between 13 and 14 is usually the same as between 5 and 6. The only time there are significant breakpoints is if the advance per level is so small that on incremenets there is no incresae in efectiveness at all. Really, though, even if what you say was true, you may be the most efficiently built monk in the world (you may have 20 more total ranks in attributes) but you will suck. Sacrificing effectiveness for effeciency wont win matches.

knives · Jul 23, 2005, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Solution: Take a blood necro.

Blood is Power, Blood Ritual. 3-5 pips of energy regen from BiP, and (if it stacks) 3 more from ritual.

ICURADik · Jul 23, 2005, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Mo/anything can be a prot, but I think what is meant by the advocates of Mo/W and Mo/E is that they can advance the theme of preventing damage through armor of earth or watch yourself.

At high levels, RoF can prevent 65, heal 65, and DF can give around 40, so you could get up in the range of 170. If you get lucky.

ANd yes, protective spirit works on ALL damage.

I like Mo/W for Balanced Stance, Watch Yourself, and possibly Bonetti's if you can come up with a way to get that much adrenaline easily. Going Me/E for a spell that will most likely allow the enemy Mesmer to cast yet another Shatter Enchant, while it slows your movement speed seems average in arena and even worse in any 8v8.

theclam · Jul 23, 2005, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICURADik

Mo/E don't have the energy to maintain wards and cast protection spells unless they are purely lifebond/blessed sig bots.

It depends. Wards can be as mana efficient as Reversal of Fortune or Protective Spirit, depending on the situation. The thing about Wards (or Wells, for that matter) is that they can't be dispelled or removed. The only way to stop them is to put some AoE effect (like Meteor Storm) in the middle of them to clear everyone out.

Jul 23, 2005, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Who cares about Shatter Enchantment

JoDiamonds · Jul 25, 2005, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICURADik

This makes no sense. @ 7 protection it prevents up to 45 and heals for another 45. That's a maximum amount of 90 damage prevention along with the DF bonus. It's still a great skill, I'm just trying to figure out where 200 came from. Maybe if you were also running boon and had 10 or so in protection you would see 200 damage "prevention/healing" totals.

I thought Reversal of Fortune always prevented all of the damage, but only healed a limited amount. Which means it could technically block 1,000 damage, and heal for 45, say. (Plus Divine Favor, boon, etc.)

It's kind of ambiguous on the Guru listing, but I was pretty sure that's how it worked. Anyone tested this?

Mitsu Bishi · Jul 25, 2005, 12:47 PM // 12:47

That's what I think and how the description reads, it totally prevents the next damage coming in, whether it's a 5 point sword slash or a 200 point nuke. It's only the healing that's limited due to your attribute points in protection prayers. As far as I've seen, it works that way, but it's not easy to test in the wild as you'll get hit by a lot of things and you can never say what exactly triggered the RoF. You might want to test it in an unrated guild battle.

Neo-LD · Jul 26, 2005, 12:09 AM // 00:09

hmm, I cast RoF on myself when I had backfire on me, to test, and Backfire still hit, but only for like 50. I then got +65 hp from RoF and +42 from DF.

The Man · Jul 26, 2005, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

hmm, I cast RoF on myself when I had backfire on me, to test, and Backfire still hit, but only for like 50. I then got +65 hp from RoF and +42 from DF.

It hit for 50 because of low domination--RoF prevents all dmg--I've tested it. Backfire triggers when you cast the spell--before the spell comes into effect. You getting the +65 hp at the same time as the DF +42 means you either made a typo, or are lieing through your teeth. DF hits immediatley when you cast the spell--not when the spell goes off.

@Ollj: Test things before you post on them. Any monk who puts more than 6 points into inspiration for channeling doesn't know what they are doing. I personally run it with 5, and it works perfectly for me.

And for hexbreaker, don't put a single point into it.

Now, when i do arenas this is the build I run:

Heal Other
Sig of Devotion
Healing Touch
Protective Spirit
Healing Seed
Healing Hands {E}
Mend Ailment
[open spot--usually hex removal]

The reason I don't have energy problems is simple. Sig of Devotion and Protective Spirit. Prot Spirit allows me to have to do MUCH less healing. SoD for obvious reasons.

Some of you are probably asking 'why healing hands?'

I'm usually the first target, and i don't use any form energy gain (outside of the obvious). Casting this on myself gives me 10 seconds of 20-25 hp per hit. Thus, I have to do significantly less healing.

Please keep in mind this is an arenas build--not tombs, so don't treat it so. I run something completely different in tombs.

Phades · Jul 26, 2005, 10:15 AM // 10:15

The healing portion seems to be listed before the divine favor portion when listed above the character's head. Just like how damage is listed before healing quantity in the instance of things like reversal and mark of protection, reading from left to right of course. Damage adders like the conjure series follow this pattern as well, base damage then the adder and so on. In the instance he is listing he is being healed from the return hit of backfire as the spell finishes, while the divine favor bonus is being triggered. I think its a good thing that the game checks for spell effects before existing conditions.

Neo-LD · Jul 26, 2005, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Man

You getting the +65 hp at the same time as the DF +42 means you either made a typo, or are lieing through your teeth.

Or that they ocurred very close together - very common when you have a warrior beating on you.

Entropius · Jul 28, 2005, 03:43 PM // 15:43

For an arena protection monk, I like to switch things around a bit and run an E/Mo.

10+3+1 Energy Storage
12 Protection Prayers
8 Healing Prayers

Reversal of Fortune
Mend Ailment
Infuse Health
Protective Spirit
Shielding Hands, a res, hex removal, or whatever -- I want to try Breeze and Vigorous
Ether Renewal {E}
Aura of Restoration
Life Attunement

Divine Staff of +20% enchantment length and with the recharge boost to Prot Prayers
Two +15/-1 items on weapon switch, just in case you get drained and need a boost to quickstart Renewal

Without Ether Renewal, you wind up getting healed for ~6x the energy cost of the spell whenever you do anything by Aura of Restoration. For free healing, this isn't bad at all.

With Ether Renewal, which will be active roughly half the time, you are healed somewhere in the 150-200 range whenever you cast a spell. This lets you use Infuse Health with impunity: you get healed right back to full as soon as you cast it.

You also have nearly unlimited energy. A normal Monk has to be cautious, conservative, patient: this guy just spams spells constantly. If someone is chewing on you, don't run: keep casting.

Cast Reversal of Fortune constantly on anyone who doesn't have it, and Protective Spirit on someone as soon as it recharges. Anyone getting low on health gets an Infuse, which isn't nearly as dangerous when you have Protective Spirit and RoF on yourself along with free heals. As soon as Ether Renewal goes up, renew any of your enchantments that have fallen, and throw Infuse Health around like it was candy. For those 12 seconds, assuming you don't get knocked down, you're a demigod.

I've gotten many compliments on my healing with this build in arenas. However, it is more vulnerable to certain counters than the traditional monk build.

Enchantment removal isn't that bad, since the first spell you should cast after casting Ether Renewal is RoF/Prot Spirit on yourself -- so that's the one they steal. Rend hurts, but you can usually recast most everything pretty quickly, and that Necro will take a huge chunk of damage from it.

Energy drain likewise isn't that bad, since you have a massive pool and 30 energy (via your weapon switch) that they can't drain: pull that up when you're about to hit Renewal, and gain back all your energy in 5 seconds. Yes, Renewal really is that good.

Same with Backfire. 45 damage per cast is laughable -- you auto-heal that much.

Things that stop you from casting, however, hurt. Arcane Conundrum, for instance, is a bitch. Your heals aren't affected, but a good Mesmer will interrupt the now 3-second Ether Renewal. Knockdowns are also a pain: a normal monk is limited by energy regeneration, so they can just heal themselves when they get up with the energy they accumulated while down. This build, doesn't have that limitation, so time spent knocked down is even worse.

The absolute worst is Diversion. If you get Infuse Health diverted, your team is in trouble, and you have to try to keep them alive with RoF until you get it back. If you get Mend or RoF diverted, you should be able to limp by on the other (you still have a "safe" spam spell to use with Renewal) until you are clear, while your team squishes the offending mesmer.

There's also a Healing variant of this build that goes something like:

Orison
Breeze
Infuse
Vig Spirit
Armor of Earth
Aura of Restoration
Ether Renewal
Vengeance / Kinetic Armor / Mend Ailment

Carinae · Jul 28, 2005, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Just be aware that you're screwed if you come against a decent Blood Necro.

Lingering Curse
Mark of Subversion

Strip your protections + halve your healing ability, and then block hex removal attempt + life steal 100 hp.

If the Necro can also get Malaise on there first, your really, really screwed. Because then you have a -2 energy degen, no enchantments whatsoever, and either a heal or hex remove will fail AND steal 100+ hp. Then you STILL have to remove Lingering Curse and Malaise, wasting more energy, while the -2 ticks away.

While your doing this the Necro will be hammering away with Shadow strike, Vampiric Gaze, or covering the hexes with spamable Parasitic Bond.

There's no way for the monk to prevent this either.