Curse

Immortal Flame · Jul 20, 2005, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Theres melandru's resilience, very good in PvP. Also, Excer, I wouldn't run Life+Balthazar for a monk with no points in smiting. That -2 degen will hurt I would think. at least get smiting to around 6 or 7.

theclam · Jul 20, 2005, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Immortal Flame

Theres melandru's resilience, very good in PvP. Also, Excer, I wouldn't run Life+Balthazar for a monk with no points in smiting. That -2 degen will hurt I would think. at least get smiting to around 6 or 7.

There's no need. Smiting only makes a difference in the amount of Adrenaline Balthazar's Spirit gives you. No matter how much Smiting you have, you'll always get 1 point of energy every time you take damage. Combined with Life Bond, you gain 1 point of energy every time you take damage or anyone in your party takes damage from an attack.

Neo-LD · Jul 20, 2005, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Thanks all for the replies. The reason I want to run both orot and heal is because I was unsatisfied with either one alone. Keep in mind this is for 4v4. WIth only healing, orison never was a standout spam spell because it didnt heal enough. Reversal of Fortune is so much superior to it, its pathetic. Healing therefore had to rely on high mana spells like Heal Other and Healing Breeze, seeming to go the opposite direction from what I wanted. With only prot, I experienced the opposite problem. RoF was simply superb, but was missing a supporting cast. It had way to deal with misc problems (mend ailment, portective spirit), but RoF was really the only good heal spell. Our team always died when I had plenty of mana still left.

So I put them together and found the results amazing. I found that

Dwaynas Kiss (or WoH if you still have your elite in question)
Healing Touch
Reversal of Fortune

as the first 3 slots could keep my team and I alive extremely well. The only issue was that I would run out of mana eventually, especially since a certain degree of spam was require to keep up with incoming damage. No time to "pace myself' or whatever.

When deciding between being unable to keep my team alive and being able to keep them alive until my energy runs dry, Ill choose the latter. But Id still like to be able to overcome this weakness to some extent. Though I wont divulge my entire build, I will say that I use nothing but 5 and 0 mana spells, and Im planning to try out Divine Spirit.

Excer · Jul 20, 2005, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Immortal Flame

Theres melandru's resilience, very good in PvP. Also, Excer, I wouldn't run Life+Balthazar for a monk with no points in smiting. That -2 degen will hurt I would think. at least get smiting to around 6 or 7.

ya, basically what the clam said, but if you use balthazar's spirit on your self, and 3 life bonds on ur teammates, u get to energy regen, but a lot of energy from blessed signet and balthazar's spirit

SoTzuMe · Jul 20, 2005, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElderAtronach

You've gotta be kidding me. Obviously you haven't met the 3 Ele spike groups in the arenas yet. Try saying that healing is better than prot when you're getting hit with 160 point lighting orbs, chain lightnings, and 90 point surges, while trying to heal yourself with orison/touch/reversal. Without protective spirit you are a goner in less than 5-10 seconds.

Go rack up some wins in team arenas before you make statements like this...

LMAO, ok whatever. Someone this defensive is obviously compensating for something...

I look forward to meeting you all in the arena. And, after you've played monks for over a year, collected all your Monk elites, won the HoH, have >3 fame, have a top 100 Guild, and can win more than 20 consecutives in the arena consistently, come back and reread this thread.

For the above suggested builds, I am curious how you handle conditions and hexes, since a prot monk is useless against them without at least two skill slots dedicated. I'm not saying a prot monk can't handle them, in fact they are superior at condition and hex removal, I just don't see it covered anywhere here.

Second, play a stock boon healer. Learn it, truly get to know it. You can swap skills in and out, and even diddle the attribute points to go heal/prot if you really want, but give it an honest try. That monk drops 160+ of healing for every 5 energy orison, and healing hands is even more efficient. If you can't outheal 2, or even 3 attackers on you, there's some other problem, such as you are getting knocked down or spiked. In any case, if there are even 2 attackers on you, then the rest of your team should be taking advantage of that situation for a win. And healing/prot is not the only or even best defense against ele spikes, try a ward, or spirits (imagine converting all lightening damage to cold, in which you come prepared with cold protection armor), or interrupts, or energy denial.

But anything that is true in arena is exponentially true in Tombs. Do you imagine that people magically stop targeting monks in Tombs? If 3 eles can spike alot of damage, how about 5 or 6? How about fighting not just 8, but 16 enemies at once?

Anyway, I really don't mean to be confrontational or cranky. I have actually tested a DF/HP/PP spec'ed monk in the arena, as well as prot only, as well as heal only, as well as HP/PP/SP and numerous other combinations with various class combos. My only real point is that, IMO, you are better off spending those PP attributes in some energy management category and specializing in the type of monk you want to be, prot, heal, conditions, whatever.

Learn the Boon healer, try a mo/me with inspiration skills, experiment with a melandru's resilience based condition/prot monk, see how effective a glyph of lesser energy is with a mo/el using higher cost skills. Once you've actually tested these things with an open mind, I'd be very interested to hear how a DF/heal/prot monk who runs out of energy is superior for arena matches or anything else.

So, if you "do not wish to run out of energy so quickly," try some of the things that other monks have found effective for energy management over the last year of playing GW. Otherwise, the thread seems to be saying "I do not wish to run out of energy so quickly, but I will consider neither the monk energy management skills, nor the energy management skills of another class, nor will I limit myself to 5 energy monk skills to solve this problem."

If what you really want to say is, "look how clever I am for getting the best of all possible worlds, with the small exception of constantly running out of energy," then don't bother asking for help on the topic of "Monks with no energy."

mamluk · Jul 20, 2005, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoTzuMe

LMAO, ok whatever. Someone this defensive is obviously compensating for something...

He is not defensive, rather he is exasperated by your comments about the strength of solely healing monks in arena. In fact, it seems that the majority of posters in this thread agree with him. If he is compensating for anything or not is simply not germane to the issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoTzuMe

I look forward to meeting you all in the arena. And, after you've played monks for over a year, collected all your Monk elites, won the HoH, have >3 fame, have a top 100 Guild, and can win more than 20 consecutives in the arena consistently, come back and reread this thread.

Maybe you have done these things, but your suggestions for being an effective monk in arena have little to do with how many monk elites you have caputured or your guild's rank, but congrats on all your victories, faction and fame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoTzuMe

For the above suggested builds, I am curious how you handle conditions and hexes, since a prot monk is useless against them without at least two skill slots dedicated. I'm not saying a prot monk can't handle them, in fact they are superior at condition and hex removal, I just don't see it covered anywhere here.

Next, you are curious about how prot monk can handle conditions and hex removal. I would suggest that they use the same skills as a healing monk- mend ailment and remove hex. Now if you are questioning if a prot monk would be effective with having two slots devoted to these skills is another issue, but I would say that is similar to dealing with healing monks and removing hexs and conditions.

Your suggestions for dealing with spike groups are....interesting....cold armor for a monk? Wards such as ward against elements or ward against harm do reduce damage, but they don't provide the same level of defense on a single target that protective spirit would do. And since the point of a spike group is to focus fire on one target, I would definitely use single target protection as the best means of defense. Using them together is the best of course.

Playing as the sole monk on a 4 man team, you will have to make compromises. You will need to try to cover as many different situations as best you can without losing your effectiveness too significantly. It is a delicate balance, but from mine and other's experiences in this thread, using healing as your focus is ineffective.

I don't think anyone here is trying to avoid using energy management skills- balthazer spirit is a great skill that requires no points to be 100% effective. And just using 5 energy skills isnt efficient enough. As has been pointed out, protective spirit can be more effective than a 5 energy skill. Reversal of fortune has the potential to be much more efficient than any 5 energy healing spell (then again, it can be definitely not as efficient), judging when to use it is a question of skill and luck.
Blanket statements like just use 5 energy skills might be effective to a point, but it is a simplistic solution and fails to look deeper in how to be a more effective monk, and that is why we are all discussing this issue, isnt it?

Here are some other thoughts- protective spirit is a great way to smooth out someone's damage- it ensures that they will take damage in amounts up to a certain point, thus you can anticapate when to heal them better and more effectively. It is also great when your team has two or more people taking damage- slapping one of these on someone allows you to slow down their rate of damage, giving you time to patch someone else up before switching back. Better anticpation allows you to manage your energy more effectively.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoTzuMe

So, if you "do not wish to run out of energy so quickly," try some of the things that other monks have found effective for energy management over the last year of playing GW. Otherwise, the thread seems to be saying "I do not wish to run out of energy so quickly, but I will consider neither the monk energy management skills, nor the energy management skills of another class, nor will I limit myself to 5 energy monk skills to solve this problem."

If what you really want to say is, "look how clever I am for getting the best of all possible worlds, with the small exception of constantly running out of energy," then don't bother asking for help on the topic of "Monks with no energy."

Does anyone else get the feeling that since some of us disagree with him, he is going to take his toys and run home?

SoTzuMe · Jul 20, 2005, 03:25 PM // 15:25

/bow

I don't know why my tone is crappy either, my apologies.

It sounds like you have a really good handle on things and use your skills intelligently.

Pretend for a sec that I am new to the thread and untainted by my own poor behaviour...

Let me offer an encouragement to try out a pvp-only boon healer for a week, if you haven't done this already. Retool him and take your favorite skills along, except keep offering of blood up for your elite. Try splitting your attributes four ways to accomodate blood magic with your current build. Run healing, run prot, or smite with whatever skills you have unlocked. You can make him over and over again to try out different things, and use your own runes and upgrades over and over.

There are numerous other viable energy schemes out there, but this is one that you can try with no commitment or loss, other than time spent. At the end of a week, compare with your current build.

If you have done something like this already, have you found that you are less effective with a specific energy management scheme than you are without one?

I suggest that you might be happier with a four attribute monk that includes energy management than a three attribute monk without, to answer your original question. The great thing about GW, though, is that there are so many different approaches that are viable. GL to you.

[edit]
To be more specific, a 3 attribute monk with energy management or a 2 attribute monk without is more effective, IMO, than either a 4 attribute monk with energy management or a 3 attribute without. Additionally, even though DF helps with a monk's energy problems, DF + energy management is better. Try it out, even while you keep searching for a skill combo that might solve the problem. A monk's built in energy options are... unsatisfying (when compared with the alternatives outside our class.)

And yes, protective spirit is a great skill and effective against spikes, but you really must compensate for the loss of a pip somehow, and once again the built in monk solutions fall short.

SoTzuMe · Jul 20, 2005, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Here's a boon healer strat for arena play to try if you have time and the inclination, energy will not be a problem. Use a stock PvP Boon healer for a template and tweak as follows:

Attributes:
Divine Favor: as high as you can get it with runes, etc, compensated with vigors
Healing Prayers: 11 or higher
Blood Magic: 8

Skills:
Orison of Healing
Healing Touch
Vigorous Spirit
Dwayna's Kiss
Infuse Health
Healing Seed or Healing Breeze
Any skill or Rez of your choice (recommend Rez Sig or Restore Life)
Offering of Blood

Play this pretending that you don't have seed/breeze, and pretty much forgetting that infuse health is up there. For small to average damage, and to buy time, drop vigorous spirit on your target, this will stick for 30 sec, in fact, drop it all the time on people you think might get hurt in the future. With Boon up and DF bonus, this acts as a buff and a small heal that will heal 1/5 to 1/4 of your targets health (excepting very high HP warriors.) Use Orison to heal other people (will heal half or more of just about anyone's health bar.) Use Touch to heal yourself, it has a huge DF boost. Touch your teamates if they are close, but don't run into a battle to do it. Use Kiss if... well, you know. Spam Offering of Blood as often as it's available for 14 instant energy.

That will cover 90+ percent of your needs, but in an emergency or spike situation, use infuse health, it's nearly insta-cast and, depending on your health, will heal for around 312 (130% of half your health at 480) + 38 (DF Bonus at 12) + 61 (Boon Bonus) = 411 points of damage. Drop Healing Touch on yourself and you are full health, or nearly, and you can Infuse again almost instantaneously.

Use Seed situationally for AOE heals, it's brilliant but expensive, and usually not needed.

You will be weak against mesmers and knockdowns, you gotta call the targets if that happens and get your group to FF them. Try not equipping your energy item, and saving that as an energy reserve for when you get stripped by a mesmer. Use the energy it gives you to cast Offering of Blood and you should be able to get around 20 energy instantly.

A spike team can be fought by drawing them out, and killing them one at time if at all possible. Keep moving, it takes them time to coordinate and launch a volley. Mesmers and interrupt rangers can also waste them from the edge or more of spell range: approach the problem as a team.

If you are being spiked, get out of casting range. If their squishies come in after you they should be killed by your front line. If there's just a warrior or two on you, so what? You can outheal them, heal your team, and still have time to mock them with emotes indefinitely. If they have hammers, pray. And call the target.

Neo-LD · Jul 20, 2005, 10:11 PM // 22:11

That may make an awesome UW/HoH monk, but arena is not the place for monks to go around saccing their health. You, as the monk, are the primary target, and thus I totally disagree with Infuse Health (and even Offering of Blood) in an arena build.

8 blood magic gives you what, 15 per offering? Do you realize how much 10% health really is? it takes 5 mana to cast OoB, 5 mana to heal yourself afterwords (Healing Touch) So that leaves you a net gain of what, 5 mana? Woot /sarcasm. Then try adding in the total energy loss of divine boon and I think you will experience worse energy problems than me.

btw, for making a big deal about how my build would cope with conditions or hexes, I notice that your take-off on the Fi boon healer can do neither.

Your points on tactics against spike teams are mostly solid, with exceotion to the last paragraph. They will magically die when they hit the "front lines" that is made up of like, 1 warrior? And when you are being spiked, you are supposed to not heal yourself, and take extra damage from possible warriors while trying vainly to escape? I doubt it will work out the way you envision.

Tellani Artini · Jul 20, 2005, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Think peace & harmony + channeling would be good enough to supplement a boon protector? In my mind, it would look like this..

Insp 10
Prot 10+hat+minor=12
Divine 11+minor=12
Smiting *

Shielding Hands
Reversal of Fortune
Protective Spirit
Mend Ailment
Smite Hex
Divine Boon
Channeling
Peace & Harmony {Elite}

Equipped with +20% enchanting staff wrapping.

Pure protection monks are, in my experience, awesome in random arena.. if they have shield of regeneration, which is the only reliable and fast-recharging pseudo-heal in the protection line. Shield of regen + shielding hands = invincible for 10 seconds, but please don't disenchant me.

Another one I tried was blessed aura + peace & harmony + all enchantment spells. Together with the staff wrapping, that's theoretically +50% enchantment time, and we all know enchantments don't go anywhere in random arena. I couldn't get by without my shield of regen there.

Neo-LD · Jul 20, 2005, 11:10 PM // 23:10

PxH is not really that great for counteracting boon's energy loss. It may cancel out the -1 PiP of energy, but you are still losing 2 energy every single time you cast a spell. Chanelling may help but only against very specific teams (those with warriors) I have never tried both together though, so Illsee how that pans out.

I seem cursed whenver I pick skills that specifically target sertain builds/classes. I bring spell breaker and there is no elementalist or mesmer. I bring Mend ailment and there are no rangers or warriors. I briing channeling and guess what? No wars.

Since lots of people are posting their build, Ill share mine:

11+4 Divine
10+1 Heal
10+1 Prot
1 Domination

Word of Healing {E}
Healing Touch
Reversal of Fortune
Signet of Devotion
Mend Ailment
Divine Spirit
Hex Breaker
Res Sig

Deals with hexes, conditions, mana loss, and even (gasp) plain and simple damage. Those 1st 3 skills are really all any monk ever needs for his healing needs. As long as I have energy, almost no one dies under my watch. I have incorperated some ways to save energy, being Divine Spirit and Devo Sig. Neither is outstanding, but they are decent at what I want them to accomplish.

Of the 3 main spells usually suggested for monks to gain mana (Offering of Blood, Energy Drain, and Peace and Harmony) I really dont like any of them for arena. OoB requires a large sacrifice of HP which is unacceptable if you are the only monk and the primary target simultaneously. Energy Drain gambles that your target is full of energy, and is only available every 20 seconds. Both of those 2 completely nullify any chance of taking heal and prot, which I really think is best for arena. PxH really doesnt provide that much extra energy and is dispellable. If needed to recast mid battle, it will take a full 15 seconds just for PxH to pay for itself. Divine Spirit and Devo Sig serve me much better.

SoTzuMe · Jul 20, 2005, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

That may make an awesome UW/HoH monk, but arena is not the place for monks to go around saccing their health. You, as the monk, are the primary target, and thus I totally disagree with Infuse Health (and even Offering of Blood) in an arena build.

You as a monk are always the prime target, there is nothing special about arenas in this regard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

8 blood magic gives you what, 15 per offering? Do you realize how much 10% health really is? it takes 5 mana to cast OoB, 5 mana to heal yourself afterwords (Healing Touch) So that leaves you a net gain of what, 5 mana? Woot /sarcasm. Then try adding in the total energy loss of divine boon and I think you will experience worse energy problems than me.

Not at all, when that 5 energy touch heals half your energy it's very efficient. 10% is absolutely nothing, heal it with a throwaway vigorous spirit. 50% for infuse is still countered by just one touch. But, like I say, pretend it isn't there, you'll hardly ever need it. When you do, it's instant heal for almost all the health of a team mate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

btw, for making a big deal about how my build would cope with conditions or hexes, I notice that your take-off on the Fi boon healer can do neither.

Unlike a prot monk, there is no need for condition or hex removal. On an 8 person team, sure it would be a nice addition, but seriously it's not necessary here. Just use a straight heal or take advantage of dwayna's kiss -- it's an opportunity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Your points on tactics against spike teams are mostly solid, with exceotion to the last paragraph. They will magically die when they hit the "front lines" that is made up of like, 1 warrior? And when you are being spiked, you are supposed to not heal yourself, and take extra damage from possible warriors while trying vainly to escape? I doubt it will work out the way you envision.

First, you shouldn't be spiked, you should be in back, within spell range of your team mates but out of range of theirs. And by front line I mean everyone who is not you. If three squishie eles run through your war, ran, & mes, or whatever setup you have, and they are able to stop and launch a spike on you without your team mates doing something about it, you have bigger problems than energy or heals.

And it should be noted that any spike team will be using Team Speak or Vent to coordinate their casting times, 9 times out of 10. If your team is not voice enabled, you are already at a serious disadvantage -- not sure if that applies but is worth mentioning. Personally I hate voice for RP reasons, but there's no question it's the most effective way to run a team in any PvP situation.

I assure you, this build works terrifically well for me in arenas, while my 8 player builds vary to complement the other healers. But, certainly there are different playing styles and ways to be effective.

Neo-LD · Jul 20, 2005, 11:37 PM // 23:37

The point Im trying to make about 8v8 as opposed to 4v4 is that you are the only monk on your team. There arent any monks to save your butt when you use Infuse health. While I understand that OoB loss of life is acceptable, HALF your health for infuse is not. I do like boon builds, but I find it tricky to get them to work the way I like. Ill try it and post back how it actually worked out for me.

Believe me, as monk Im always way in back of everyone else, sometimes do far that I find myself a little out of range to heal my allies. But I find that no matter how far in the back the monk stays, he will become the target eventually (within 15 seconds). They just have to work their way up to you.

theclam · Jul 21, 2005, 12:56 AM // 00:56

I wouldn't use Infuse Health on a Boon Healer. Heal Other will heal for 250-300 and you don't have to sacrifice health.

Quote:

I do like boon builds, but I find it tricky to get them to work the way I like.

I think I can tell you why you find them tricky:

Quote:

You, as the monk, are the primary target, and thus I totally disagree with Infuse Health (and even Offering of Blood) in an arena build.

8 blood magic gives you what, 15 per offering? Do you realize how much 10% health really is? it takes 5 mana to cast OoB, 5 mana to heal yourself afterwords (Healing Touch) So that leaves you a net gain of what, 5 mana? Woot /sarcasm. Then try adding in the total energy loss of divine boon and I think you will experience worse energy problems than me.

OoB is the key spell for a Boon build. It basically gives you +3 energy regen, but -2 health regen. Is that worth the tradeoff? Definitely.

Schorny · Jul 21, 2005, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoTzuMe

First, you shouldn't be spiked, you should be in back, within spell range of your team mates but out of range of theirs. And by front line I mean everyone who is not you. If three squishie eles run through your war, ran, & mes, or whatever setup you have, and they are able to stop and launch a spike on you without your team mates doing something about it, you have bigger problems than energy or heals.

So how can you keep 3 eles outside of spell range from your monk?
I haven't seen any team that was able to keep our eles from coming close enough. Even our warriors always got near enough - it took them sometimes many seconds, but they got near enough.

Edit:
funnt enough:
there are many hammer warriors, so beeing prepared to handle one or two can't be wrong. I'm not such a good monk as you (haven't won HoH, haven't got all skills, haven't got a rank 3) but I think in such a common situation like a Mesmer or Hammer Warrior on the oppsoing team, just praying isn't really the best solution...

ElderAtronach · Jul 21, 2005, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

And yes, protective spirit is a great skill and effective against spikes, but you really must compensate for the loss of a pip somehow, and once again the built in monk solutions fall short.

Sotsume, I don't think you're thinking of the correct spell. Protective spirit is 10 energy, lasts upwards of 18 seconds, and its target can't lose more than 10% health from any attack, which neuters air spikes significantly. You are thinking of Life Bond, which halves damage to the target, and the other half is directed to you but reduced by X amount, and costs a pip of mana regen to upkeep.

Jul 21, 2005, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Level 12 Peace and Harmony: +1 Energy Regen for 78 seconds.

In 78 seconds that means the caster regens: (5/3)*78=130 Energy.

Normal Regen in 78 seconds=(4/3)*78=104 Energy.

So to be "fair" the skill is +26 Energy over the long haul. Which loses out to BiP which is around +30 at 5 pips, OoB and Energy Drain which give back less the first time but beat it out on the second recharge. But P&H is a long term skill anyway, just that the energy gain is pretty bad when looking at it vs others. Just wanted to point that out.

Ristaron · Jul 21, 2005, 02:53 AM // 02:53

IMO Mark of Protection is much better than Shield of Regeneration.

My lifebonding PvP (tombs) monk uses this strat:
1. Balthazar's Aura (I think it's this one... the one that gives you energy when you take damage...)
2. Lifebond (of course)
3. Blessed Signet (no cost, gives you 23 energy (if you have good divine, can go higher)
4. Signet of Devotion (emergency 94 hp (more with more divine favour))
5. Mark of Protection {E} (sometimes I switch it with Shield of Regeneration {E} for kicks)
6. Protective Spirit (excellent to keep a target from dying before the healers can get him back up)
7. Divine Intervention (in my opinion, an amazing spell. I currently have it that it will negate fatal damage and heal the person 211 points. Only a healer with high healing prayers and heal other (with divine boon on) can match that.)
8. Light of Dwayna (usually we make a healing ball, of course, so when a few people die I just cast that and all of a sudden the team is back. The only downside is that it costs a whopping 25 energy... one of the most expensive monk spells I know of.)

I usually play with spikers, we have a blast. My friend and I made a team out of good players we played with in PUGs. Sadly we still haven't made it to HoH (team isn't finished, some people drop, and there are always a few mesmers on one of the other teams that manage to cancel my lifebonds and interrupt half the spikers).
Soon, though, we shall be out of advertising for people. The PvP team includes people of several guilds - most of the time enough of us are online.

Tangent...

Back to monks... don't load up on weapons/items that cut energy regen. Use them only in emergencies (I only use my energy boosting tool which gives me +27 energy (+15, +12) when I'm running extremely low and my lifebonds are really draining... because that tool adds ANOTHER arrow of degen to my bar).

theclam · Jul 21, 2005, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

Level 12 Peace and Harmony: +1 Energy Regen for 78 seconds.

In 78 seconds that means the caster regens: (5/3)*78=130 Energy.

Normal Regen in 78 seconds=(4/3)*78=104 Energy.

So to be "fair" the skill is +26 Energy over the long haul. Which loses out to BiP which is around +30 at 5 pips, OoB and Energy Drain which give back less the first time but beat it out on the second recharge. But P&H is a long term skill anyway, just that the energy gain is pretty bad when looking at it vs others. Just wanted to point that out.

You're right about it being inferior to the other skills in terms of the amount of energy it grants. The main advantages of Peace and Harmony, that I see, are that it's a Divine Favor skill (meaning that you don't need to spend points into Inspiration or Blood Magic) and you can cast it on someone besides yourself (with high enough Divine Favor, you can have it running on two players constantly).

theclam · Jul 21, 2005, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ristaron

IMO Mark of Protection is much better than Shield of Regeneration.

It's really not. It's only better in certain situations. It completely disables a whole tree. Most of the time what happens is that a team keeps on hitting the player with MoP for another 1-2 seconds, before switching to another target. Then all your protection spells are useless, so you better have something else to do. Shield of Regeneration works better in most situations.

The only builds that I can think of are something like a Life Bond build or a Monk that uses very few Protection spells.