Curse

ElderAtronach · Jul 25, 2005, 05:27 PM // 17:27

On the deep wound thing, I've been using it with dismember right now for testing, and it seems to apply the damage from the attack first, then lowers their HP by 20% of their max. I've seen many instances where their health bar is about 1/5 full, then when I hit dismember, they get damaged a bit then drop dead from the deep wound.

ElderAtronach · Jul 25, 2005, 05:31 PM // 17:31

As for cleave vs eviscerate, IMO deep wound is best when used at the end of their health bar as opposed to the beginning, because of how deep wound works. I think I'd much rather spam cleave and executioner's for damage, then hit dismember to spike them at the end, kind of like a final thrust for axes.

Rey Lentless · Jul 25, 2005, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

edit: Battle rage never, ever, belongs on a axe warrior. Also, you have to take into account that a typical target has about 480 life and a typical eviscerate will do ~120 dmg. 480 X .20 = 96 This means if if you do damage first then deep wound will have no effect. However, if deep wound is applied first I may be using eviscerate from here on out

Eh?

How is battlerage not a good choice?

Tigris Of Gaul · Jul 25, 2005, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey Lentless

Eh?

How is battlerage not a good choice?

Because you can use Frenzy + Eviscerate instead.

Tuna · Jul 25, 2005, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey Lentless

Eh?

How is battlerage not a good choice?

Its bad on axe/hammer just because the weapon specific elites are too good to pass up. Its probably the first elite I'd consider on a sword warrior though. Addren attacks are about as good as they come as the only requirement is that you are attacking. Since thats what warriors do you can spam those suckers endlessly. If you have adren problems frenzy/fgj is the easy fix. Of course, try all the elites with various builds to see what works for you.

kuramaroze · Jul 26, 2005, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

Hey, congrats! You just did less damage using 12 adrenaline than I did using only 7! Nice call!

Actually, you're wrong. If I remember correctly, dismember + cleave takes only 2 more adrenaline to use than Eviscerate, considering neither dismember nor cleave has a "lose all adrenaline" effect. Still I agree.

Think of eviscerate as smashing executioner's stike and dismember into one skill. It has 10 damage less, but only takes 1 skill slot and uses two less adrenaline than executioner's strike and dismember in a row take. On an axe war, saving skill slots is the most important thing considering how limited you can be by them. I see cleave as more useless, being a hardcore axe 'n' hammer guy. Why? Penetrating blow will do the same thing for 1 more adrenaline.

Anyways, here's my fun little axe build I use in the arenas.

Warrior/Monk
10+2 Axe Mastery
11+0 Smiting Prayers
10+1 Strength

Eviscerate
Penetrating Blow
Executioner's Strike (Power Attack may also be used here if you don't get energy problems)
Disrupting Chop
Frenzy
Judge's Insight
Strength of Honor
Res Singet (Vengeance in team arenas)

No sprint, which is a shame, but you should see the DPS I can get with it. It's pretty funny. Oh, and I use a 15% while enchanted axe with 10% sundering and +29 health (go for 30 ofcourse) which seems to work best. Talk about uber armor penetration! Oh, it dies very quickly if you don't have a monk, and this thing definately isn't fit for tombs. Its just fun wailing on someone in the arenas with it. If you want, use a sup rune, but I don't feel that the diminishing damage bonus is worth the -75 health

I've also had sucess with going W/N. Plague touch is such a fun skill!

Jake · Jul 26, 2005, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Eviscerate is the same damage as executioner's strike not 10 less, gwg has it typo'd or never updated, it's easily better than cleave imo.

Yukito Kunisaki · Jul 26, 2005, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Not using Battle Rage {E} with a weapon class that has more adrenal skills than any other weapon class in the game?

I smell hypocrisy...

Battle Rage should feed 3 axe skills readily: Penetrating Blow, Executioner's Strike, Disrupting Chop. The first two already come out every 3-4 swings. I add in Swift Chop for my fourth axe skill which will double adrenaline for the previous 3 skills. I could use dismember but I want maximum damage. Disrupting Chop shouldn't be spammed in any rate so just using it when you see a res or giant skill is perfectly fine... I know of the Frenzied For Great Justice combo, but from experience, 15 energy for such a small limited boost in dmg and adrenaline combined isn't worth it on a 22 energy warrior that is me. I'm not going Gladiators due to elemental defense with my current armor.

Besides, a curses warrior can out damage most warriors due to the 30s. that is Weaken Armor...

[till it's hex removed but it's fine to just hope ^_^]

Eonwe · Jul 26, 2005, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuramaroze

Actually, you're wrong. If I remember correctly, dismember + cleave takes only 2 more adrenaline to use than Eviscerate, considering neither dismember nor cleave has a "lose all adrenaline" effect. Still I agree.

Yea I newbed it

.

Rey Lentless · Jul 26, 2005, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Indeed you did. But at least it was ironically sarcastic, that makes up for being wrong ;P

Yah Yukito.. I don't get it. Battlerage seems like a perfect fit to me.

Depending on what I'm attacking, I do spam disrupting chop as well on occassion. I imagine most people don't do that, but they are free interupts that will recharge quickly, and if you time them alright, you can pretend you're a crappy diversion spammer.

A typical build for me is

Penetrating
Exec
Dismember
Disrupting
Battlerage
Plague touch
Rend
Rez

Usually go 16/14 with that setup.

Frenzy's great, but without a leadoff cripple like hamstring, I would be hard pressed to depend on a non speed boost stance. And conditions can be and are removed so quickly that it's hard to depend on a slowed target.. much easier to depend on yourself moving faster. Since battlerage can be kept up pretty much non stop, it's really 2 skills in one that are better than the two skills it replaces. That's pretty good for an elite and has great synergy with axe.

Cleave's nice because it's yet another attack skill you can add to the chain. Eviscerate's nice for the spike (but again being a removable condition, it has to be timed right), but not so much better than dismember that I think it's worth actually.. using. Dismember is already a situational damage skill, why take an elite that just makes a situational skill like that a little better? The only time I'd say it's a good decision, if you're consistently getting people to 30 health and not killing them.. then.. eviscerate would have done the job. But your overall dps is not improved much at all from it. Cleave improves it more, because you can just add another damage attack without it replacing anything (and more is better with adrenal).. but there's only so many slots for a damage skill and axe already has pretty good ones. So take battle rage, take away sprint and for greater justice, add another attack.. and spam all of them constantly. Isn't that a no brainer?

Eonwe · Jul 26, 2005, 10:47 AM // 10:47

I'm not going to say that Battle Rage is trash, because it isn't. It has some uses. However, I wouldn't consider using it over cleave or eviscerate, ever. I would also never consider running rend on a warrior, you should have someone else on your team carrying a rend. I can see where you're going with plague touch though, using it to transfer blind, cripple, or weakness isn't a bad idea.

If cleave was still 2 adrenaline I'd still be running it, no doubt. But since it isn't, I still think eviscerate is the way to go. Also, if a build called for more than 1 axe guy, only one would be carrying eviscerate, and the others cleave.

Tigris Of Gaul · Jul 26, 2005, 03:16 PM // 15:16

My problem with Battle Rage is that most of the time, there are better elites for you to use as a warrior. Use hammers? - Try Devastating Hammer, maybe Backbreaker. Use axes? - Try Eviscerate, maybe Cleave if you're in a team build. So really, I only find myself using Battle Rage with swords.

Phades · Jul 26, 2005, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigris Of Gaul

My problem with Battle Rage is that most of the time, there are better elites for you to use as a warrior. Use hammers? - Try Devastating Hammer, maybe Backbreaker. Use axes? - Try Eviscerate, maybe Cleave if you're in a team build. So really, I only find myself using Battle Rage with swords.

You dont really need to spam bleed and deep wound on the same target. Sure i guess you could run around like a madman trying to hit everyone with it. Battle rage doesnt mix too wonderfully with skills that are a large cost and that wipes out that adrenalin pool. This is due to the fact that refreshing battle rage causes all adrenalin to be wiped out. Using 2 methods of wiping out the adrenalin pool is difficult to manage at times and is questionable how productive it is.

Personally, i think it would be nice if we could mix weapons together for maximum effect, so that we arent forced into being a "sword" warrior or whatever. For example, warirors would have strenght and technique skills which the weapons are based from, similar to how shields are currently. Have skills like hammer bash be strenght or things that cause deepwound be technique. Mainly the distinction being the difference being is the force of the blow or the placement causing the method use to succede. Sure many of the existing skills could be argued to fit in either way, but that is just a naming game. Rename the warrior's main attribute to vigor or endurance or whatever and allow for the strenght bonus to be as it is and the technique to allow for an increased hit rate for redundancy purposes. Allow for stances to be included within the strenght or technique areas, while still allowing for the tactics and the warrior main attribute diversity. It is possible under the current model to use 2 weapons, but rather impratical considering the weapon damage calculations and skill distributions. A style like this would create some streamlining within the class found in others, but still force choices and allow for more blending found within other classes. Hot swapping does make a break in character animation, but it could be worth it if the system were different.

Yukito Kunisaki · Jul 26, 2005, 04:08 PM // 16:08

That would be crazy. Having warriors running around with hammers and axes and swords simultaneously...

Weapon Mastery to me is the most common 'sense' ideal for using the weapons. Being able to use any weapon without consequence is just crazy in my eyes. It could very indeed be broken.

Queto · Jul 26, 2005, 04:31 PM // 16:31

My W/R build for 4vs4 is like this

SKILLS:

Eviscerate
Axe Rake
Executioner's Strike
Cyclone Axe
Apply Poison
Storm Chaser
Troll Unguent
Rez signet

ATTRIBUTES:

Axe Mastery 11 +1 (rune) +1 (helmet)
Strength 10 +1 (rune)
Wilderness Surival 10

GEAR:

I'm wearing Gladiator's Armor, so I have a total of 27 Energy. Also use Poisener's Axe.

TACTICS:

U can guess what the meaning is... Poison as much enemies as possible with Apply Poison + Cyclone Axe. Try to keep yourself alive with Troll Unguent. Do damage and cripple with Eviscerate + Axe Rake (they both need 7 adrenaline) and extra damage with Executioner's Strike. Now Storm Chaser can be very usefull. It costs 10 energy, but you should have that because of Gladiator's. With Wilderness Survival at 10, I move 25% faster for 16 seconds (better then Sprint) AND I gain 4 energy each time I'm hit with elemental damage. So that means, if some warrior has Fiery Sword or a monk wanding (light damage) or an Ele casting something on you, you gain 4 Energy. This energy is very handfull for using Apply Poison (15 energy) or Troll Unguent (5 energy).

This works out great for me, don't know what you think about it.

Crispie · Jul 26, 2005, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Strength 12+1
Axe Mastery 12+3

Battle Rage
Disrupting Chop
Penetrating Blow
Executioner's Strike
Dismember
Axe Rake
Plague Touch
Ressurection Signet

Strategy
- The skills you use is pretty obvious, but be sure to cast Battle Rage right before it ends, so you dont need to charge it back up. Plague Touch is to direct conditions back at your opponent(esp blind). All I can say is, with Battle Rage, you can spam all your Adrenaline skills. I have had tremundous success with this build in Arena, but I still have yet to test this build in Tombs. And if you think Cleave is a better elite, you can use Executioner's Strike with the same Adrenaline and Penetrating Blow every other hit with Battle Rage active. Yes, its a pretty nasty combo.

EDIT: Just realized someone else has a build nearly identicle to this, Im not surprised

Tigris Of Gaul · Jul 26, 2005, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

You dont really need to spam bleed and deep wound on the same target. Sure i guess you could run around like a madman trying to hit everyone with it. Battle rage doesnt mix too wonderfully with skills that are a large cost and that wipes out that adrenalin pool. This is due to the fact that refreshing battle rage causes all adrenalin to be wiped out. Using 2 methods of wiping out the adrenalin pool is difficult to manage at times and is questionable how productive it is.

You're right, but really all I spammed was Gash and Galrath, after the initial Sever Artery. Two "lose all adrenalines" doesn't really work that well, and if you look at the better elites to be used in both Axe and Hammer lines, Battle Rage doesn't really fit in that well. Maybe if it was tweaked so that you only lost all adrenaline if the stance ended, which didn't include recasting it while in BR, I'd use it more often.

Crispie · Jul 27, 2005, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Tigrus, you do realize that battle rage does

1. Make you run 25% faster
2. Attacks such as Executioners Strike, that do more damage than Cleave, can be used in the same amount of adrenline, and that every other hit you can spam Disrupting Chop and Penetrating Blow. Yes you lose all adrenline every 20 seconds, but you do realize in 2 attacks most of you attacks are recharged, right?

Tuna · Jul 27, 2005, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crispie

Tigrus, you do realize that battle rage does

1. Make you run 25% faster
2. Attacks such as Executioners Strike, that do more damage than Cleave, can be used in the same amount of adrenline, and that every other hit you can spam Disrupting Chop and Penetrating Blow. Yes you lose all adrenline every 20 seconds, but you do realize in 2 attacks most of you attacks are recharged, right?

The major problem with running battle rage is that you can't use frenzy. That in itself makes it worth it to run something else (as axe/hammer warrior) A warrior typically doesn't use much or any energy so running frenzy + fgj is completely viable.

Zeru · Jul 27, 2005, 01:57 AM // 01:57

The lose all adren function is something severely hindering BR.

If you want to adren spike (ignoring the fact that adren spiking sucks without frenzy) you will often have to wait for an opportunity presents itself or your team is ready and if that happens at the wrong time...you're kinda screwed. Timing is very crucial and BR is not friendly with that.