Curse

JackOften · Aug 07, 2005, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Its really only completely countered with teamwork - but anything else can reasonably gip it. Drawcon is a 1/4second cast - I can't count the number of times I've interupted Viru spikes with it while smiting (simply because a Me/N is like a big red "watch out for deepwounds on teammates" flag). Then theres a double hexbreaker - ie instant 2x hex busting. I have no doubt in your ability to throw up a bait hex first, but two? Nah.

Then finally theres Mend Ailments. I mean, duh. Its a great build alright, but its only really powerful if the target either has none of the counters or doesn't know whats happening.

And of course smitehexing fragility or whatever hex you fire first (if its a bait/mask).

arredondo · Aug 07, 2005, 06:15 PM // 18:15

If you can notice a Deep Wound and remove it in the .7 window consistently, I tip my hat to you. However, if PP is killed by Shattered Delusions, you have 1.4, so a keen eye can definitely work to remove it. Again though, these aren't tools everyone has and the timing is tight, but definitely possible.

Red Locust · Aug 07, 2005, 06:41 PM // 18:41

A little update, yesterday I faced what I assume was a pretty decent frag build, since he kept those virulences coming, persistent little bastard. I was a monk, btw.
I'd pop 1 or 2 mend ailments in between the 3 second wait, during which I had 4 conditions on me, and I'd get healed for roughly 200-350 health. Another mend ailment after the 3 second wait, and deep wound was gone. 10-15 energy spent. Wow, fearsome combo

arredondo · Aug 08, 2005, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Fearsome combo indeed. Considering I've never seen anyone do that strat in a few hundred applications of it shows that it is even rarer than the other defenses I and others have pointed out. I guess the moral of the story is, the second a defense works for once for one person, it's no longer worth ever doing. Of course that logic is wrong.

That's a great strat BTW. It is one of several ways to avoid having to bring Hex Breaker (and a Mesmer secondary). Still, using that line of logic, a MeNe who sees this idea spread could ideally drop Shame on the Deep Wound first and then cast Virulence. That will interrupt Mend Ailment and steal 12 energy in the process. The same can be done with Mark of Subversion, which also interrupts Mend Condition automatically but steals up to 76+ health.

And it continues... you can come up with something to stop those ideas, I can come up with something to stop your counters. Eventually we run out of skill slots. In the end, we only need to make adjustments if we're forced to. When using this build (which I rarely do as I like to build new ones), I'll adjust to Mend Condition if and when the time comes. Until then, nice job to whoever uses it on me in battle - I'll go kill his friend instead.

Nightwish · Aug 08, 2005, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by arredondo

And it continues... you can come up with something to stop those ideas, I can come up with something to stop your counters. Eventually we run out of skill slots. In the end, we only need to make adjustments if we're forced to. When using this build (which I rarely do as I like to build new ones), I'll adjust to Mend Condition if and when the time comes. Until then, nice job to whoever uses it on me in battle - I'll go kill his friend instead.

And his friend might be another Virul-Frag user started out his combo on you beforehand

This combo is deadly but getting abit common. I guess there is no secret builds in GW as the source of damages done are being shown. Its good to know how the damages done to you come about but at the same time, you cant reserve some tactical build to your team's advantage

reality · Aug 08, 2005, 06:36 PM // 18:36

I tried this out for the heck of it in Team Arena, where I had never won more than a few in a row, and strung off a 21 win streak (15 to 17 of those were flawless) until 2 people left, and it was 4v2.

There are people who were able to counter it a bit, and there is no way someone using this as a cookie-cutter setup (i.e. not adjusting to opposing team) will still win all the time. It also still requires having a decent team, and good target calling and cooperation.

I would say it is a very solid build though, and the only teams I would lose against with any consistancy are the all-ranger or 3 ranger/1 monk teams. The spirits make energy management and the extra cast time a bit too much to bear.

I have not found any other build that creates more "wtf" moments from people when they all of a sudden get hit so quickly for dmg, especially warriors. It really is amusing, and that is why I enjoy using the build.

cookiehoarder · Aug 08, 2005, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinsei

Nature's Renewal.

Nature's renewal is counterable. When I HoH my team usually finds the spirit spammer and always interupts his NR via rigor mortis+disrupting chop/distracting blow. It doesn't always work but it sure as hell cuts down on the NR drops.

Phades · Aug 08, 2005, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookiehoarder

Nature's renewal is counterable. When I HoH my team usually finds the spirit spammer and always interupts his NR via rigor mortis+disrupting chop/distracting blow. It doesn't always work but it sure as hell cuts down on the NR drops.

That is a bad team, if they allow the warrior to build adrenalin at will and move into melee while using nr and not remove the rigor mortis, interupt the casting of rigor mortis, or prevent the target of the "key" ranger via other means. Even if you managed to do all of these things, a second ranger would basically make it pointless, because you are only affecting one of them at best.

Zeru · Aug 09, 2005, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookiehoarder

Nature's renewal is counterable. When I HoH my team usually finds the spirit spammer and always interupts his NR via rigor mortis+disrupting chop/distracting blow. It doesn't always work but it sure as hell cuts down on the NR drops.

Is there an imaginary rule of 1 ranger with renewal per team?

telarin · Aug 09, 2005, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

Is there an imaginary rule of 1 ranger with renewal per team?

there isnt, but having multiple rangers carrying NR would mean they have less offensive skills and would be less effective in dealing dmg.

Phades · Aug 09, 2005, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Having 2 would not be overly crippling and would allow for other skills to be included, instead of a full spirit lineup on each character.

Zeru · Aug 09, 2005, 06:16 AM // 06:16

The whole point of most of those ranger builds is to hold. The squeak the minimal amount of offense possible and just back survival stuff; i,e healing spring , whirling, spirits, etc.

You have some exceptions like a 4 ranger 1 nec order spam team but they certainly won't like NR and they aren't grief either.

Mitsu Bishi · Aug 09, 2005, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Well, with 5-6 ranger spots to fill, I'd rather have 2 or 3 carry the most important spirit, right. And you can't say the whole point is only to hold as you've got to make your way to the HoH as well. Which includes some 1vs1 maps and some 6-team-bouts which you can't win by just sitting on a dais for 10 minutes.

On topic - it's a nice build and fun to use, especially on those l33t-W/Mo-Pwnerz with their fiery dragon swords

It has it's weaknesses though and therefore should be played as that - a fun build to earn some quick faction in random (and sometimes team) arenas.

UberRusty · Aug 09, 2005, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Too bad you can only have one Memser spiker on your team on one target. =(