Curse

Kali Ma · Jul 26, 2005, 11:54 AM // 11:54

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Leech signet will only give you the energy if the action was a spell.

Right, NR won't give the energy bonus... my mistake. I'd probably use whatever energy drain/steal I had equipped on the NR caster between interrupts intstead.

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The unit you're putting mantra of signets and echo will have no other use to the team than to hold NR out of the game, if that's what you're building for.

The Mantra/Echo/Leech Signet combo isn't simply for NR interrupting, though that would seem to be a good use for it. It's used as an all around interupt for anything, requires very little energy and in most situations will give the caster energy back. Plus it's not that hard to fit into a more well rounded build because Echo is often used by a lot of mesmers anyway, and the mantra/leech only takes up two slots.

Imho, the bonus of it over some of the other interrupt spells is that: 1) it can be used on any skill, 2) it's an Inspiration skill, and 3) with the Mantra it can be used repeatedly, very quickly, for only 5 energy per cast, regardless of if Echo is used on it or not... Echo is just a way to get around the signet's long recharge time when Mantra runs out for situations like you mentioned with Oath Shot, which could potentially go on for awhile. Echo gets used on the Leech Signet btw, not the Mantra.

It's at least worth checking out for a Mesmer who likes to have an all around interupt for any situation, or who doesn't have points in Domination.

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Rangers can cast the spirits before you get in range for interupt.

Ok, look... I'm not talking about a single Mesmer taking on a spirit spam team, ok? Nor am I wanting to get into a semantic debate over every potential scenario between a Mesmer and a Ranger in organized PvP... sheesh.

NR was brought up as a way to "kill" the above mentioned combos, and unless a team of several Rangers are running around dropping multiple NRs and timing their drops, then there's no way to "kill" the combos. The Deep Wounds will happen, and spells will still be cast after it's laid down. NR doesn't have much effect on a spell with 1/4 casting speed and 10 Fast Casting with a +20% casting wand or staff... give me a break here. Someone can always walk up and smash the spirit with a hammer too.

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That's a lot of effort to prepare for a single skill that is so light to use, and if they just pack another copy of NR on another unit, this build loses it's point. You simply cannot hold NR out of the game, especially in multi team scenarios.

Keeping it out of the match altogether isn't necessarily the goal. One just needs to delay it a bit, or keep it from being recast when it ends. One of the other main intentions in contstanly interupting anything is to simply waste the enemy's energy, mess up their game plan, or simply aggravate the heck out of them so they get off balance and turn their attention from other things.

<Off Topic Tangent begins here...>

Here's a point I'd like to make about Mesmers to all those reading the thread here, and is imho partially why so many players have a hard time picking up the profession and sticking with it, or why other profession's don't get them at all... Mesmers aren't simply linear damage dealers or spellcasters.

All of the other professions do an action for a tangible result - cast spell, see effect; swing weapon, see damage; lay trap, see effect. They may combine two or more skills together to complement each other, but it's still usually (not always) a linear attack or buff with a specific effect in mind.

With Mesmers, it's not necessarily that way... many of their spells and combos have more intangible results than are apparent on the surface, and are designed to be that way. They can impact the mental game, get under a player's skin, drain energy vicariously by stealing focus away from other areas, etc. Mesmers are about misdirections, distractions, diversions, feints, drains, denials - and just like with a magician or a hypnotist, your attention can be purposefully misguided to somewhere other than where the magician is attending... and if done well you won't even know it.

To not acknowledge or recognize this fundamental aspect of the profession is to underestimate the Mesmer's potential.

<thank you, and now if you'll all return to your seats...>

The combos listed in this thread are cool because they are a potential serious damage dealer for a Mesmer under the right circumstances. However, we're probably never going to see an all Mesmer team running around spamming Phantom Pain combos and owning the HoH for days on end, ok? That's not what we're discussing here... there's just as much potential for these to work well in PvE.

Red Locust · Jul 26, 2005, 09:41 PM // 21:41

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Originally Posted by Kali Ma

Hex Breaker only kills hexes cast on you, and then for only one hex at a time and then needs to be recast. So one could purposefully cast a low energy/recharge hex, immediately followed by Phantom Pain.

Hex breaker essentially gives you 2 hex evasions up front, and one every 5 seconds thereafter. As long as you cast hex breaker at least 5 seconds before you get hexed, you can recast it immediately after you get hexed. It takes 0 seconds to activate, you can do it while you're running/casting/dancing, so you'll be able to take 2 hexes one after the other with no effect. 10 seconds later, you're able to take another 2 hexes, and all of the hexes in this mesmer build take >10 sec. to recharge. So yes, it kills it in most cases.

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Originally Posted by Kali Ma

The other hex removal spells for allies only remove the last hex cast, so this is another use for Phantom Pain... immediately follow the actual hex one wants to cast with Phantom Pain, then when a hex removal spell is cast only PP gets removed, the first hex stays, and a deep wound is inflicted.

There are a lot of things that can go wrong.
(1) you cast phantom pain, then SD on it, then the enemy hex removal hits and gets rid of fragility. This is probably the most likely case.
(2) you cast phantom pain, then enemy hex removal hits it, then you SD and remove fragility instead. oops.
(3) you get your whole chain off and only fragility remains. Enemy removes fragility and you have to wait for fragility to recharge before you can pull off your combo.

As for Martyr, keep in mind that it removes all conditions, so while you'll get your damage spike, you won't be able to repeat it since you need a condition for virulence to trigger.

Spellbreaker isn't the best solution, but its 15s. duration is enough to stop your spike and run your fragility hex out, forcing you to repeat the energy-intensive skill chain.

Oh and ether lord is terrible

Do the math, it costs 5 energy and it gives you a total of 9 energy over 9 seconds at 12 inspiration. Factor in the few energy you'll probably lose when you cast it, and it's worthless. Plus it's a 2 second cast :\
There are better options, but fragility costs 15 energy and phantom costs 10, you'd be hard-pressed to recover that much energy in a short time.

With this build, you're dedicating 4 slots to the virulence/fragility combo, 2 slot for rez sig and an energy gain spell, that leaves you with 2 skill slots. Definitely not a versatile build, and it's very damage-oriented, so you'd really be down on your luck if any of the aforementioned things go wrong.

arredondo · Jul 31, 2005, 07:52 PM // 19:52

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(1) you cast phantom pain, then SD on it, then the enemy hex removal hits and gets rid of fragility. This is probably the most likely case.
(2) you cast phantom pain, then enemy hex removal hits it, then you SD and remove fragility instead. oops.
(3) you get your whole chain off and only fragility remains. Enemy removes fragility and you have to wait for fragility to recharge before you can pull off your combo.

This is forum theory at work, because in the real world, none of this is ever a problem. Ever. A lot of ideas come and go as we post our thoughts, but at some point it's best to actually see something fail hard and easy before one shoots it down.

1). No, it never happens. If they try to remove a hex, they NEVER wait for Fragility (wait) Phantom Pain (wait) Shatter Delusions (wait.... ok, now remove the hex). That's a completely unrealistic scenario that I've never seen after pulling that combo off 100s of times.

2). I always allow time for a hex removal to take away Phantom Pain, if only because I want some degen to ensure maximum punishment. If he's not a class with a remover or hasn't removed any hexes to this point, I rarely need to worry.

3). I got my whole chain off? Lol, the last thing I care about is him removing Fragility, becuase if he isn't healing his butt, he's running with 10% of life left (provided I didn't kill him).

Martyr? I've seen it used, and the Conditions come way to fast for A) a monk to recognize who's being hurt by Deep Wound, and B) removing it before I cast Virulence .7 seconds after Phantom Pain gets cut (1.5 if I shattered it with the after cast).

Once down, he has three seconds to remove the Conditions, half of the damage BTW has being already triggered by Fragility. And as I said elesewhere, those Conditions go somewhere - to the Monk who cast Martyr. I usually target monks first anyway, and when i saw one taking on people's Conditions, I Fragility+Virulence'd him and he was the one looking for help. Lastly, considering this combo kills in 10 seconds, their Martyr cast has to be precise because they only get one chance to do it right.

As for the versatility of it, it depends on how you build around it. I daresay, my version listed in the post above (now using Hex Breaker for IoW), it is one of the most self-sustaining, offensively versatile builds around. I do damage, I give support, I don't need to do all the casts to stay effective.... I show it all in that thread and to this day in Arenas it's still extremely successful. HoH and vs. Spirit Spam? Show me any caster build that dominates the Ranger madness and I'll comment.

Kali Ma... you make a few other interesting observations that I've been working on as well. Thanks for taking the time to post up your ideas.

rii · Jul 31, 2005, 08:43 PM // 20:43

hmmmm, problems with interrupting natures renewal?
This isnt a solution, but if i ever force someone on my team to oath shot natures renewal, ill tell them to get mantra of resolve. woo.

And let me, for the ten billionth millionth trillionth time, say:

Ether lord is not a regen skill. It is a deial skill. At 16 inspiration, its -4 pips. That my good fellow, is a casters entire regen, which means hes running on whatever support regen he brought (e.g. oob) which is scant to say the least. And, it can run for half the time, and in a qz build it can but kept up constantly. Thats some energy denial. The problem of 'loose all energy' is fairly awful to moan about. What, you want to keep it and put it in a box? Find something spammy and useful (e.g. diversion) and use it in excess.

ZD_kusanagi · Jul 31, 2005, 08:45 PM // 20:45

sorry, but your wrong
at 16 inspiration, it stays at 10 seconds of -3 regen.
i've checked it myself very recently for an nrelated matter so it's still fresh in my memory.

rii · Jul 31, 2005, 08:47 PM // 20:47

ARg the nerf! Well, the point remains...... casters with one pip dont do jack either. 1 energy every three seconds isnt much better than one every never. That means youve got to wait 15 seconds to cast 1 orison. Woe is the best word for that. and its more if your under qz.

ZD_kusanagi · Jul 31, 2005, 08:55 PM // 20:55

i agree with you that it's pretty harsh, but, it only lasts 10 seconds is the problem. and with a 20 second recharge time, all by it's self, it's not worth it. in my opinion what would be better is running malaise and wither. you get around 30+ seconds of -4 energy regen, plus -2 hp regen. thats going to hurt ALOT more than 10 seconds of -3. after all, a warrior usally runs with around 1 or 2 pips of energy regen. and they still manage to pull of quite a few skills.

rii · Jul 31, 2005, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Go to yukitos energy denial in campfire that just resurfaced, and read all about the counters to malaise and wither. It sucks, I loved malaise, but thats just life i suppose.
True it is better, but as seeable ether lord is more reliable. As i said also, in spirit spam days, qz is a strong possibility, which is great for lord, since thats now a recharge of 10s.
Warriors are fortunate enough to have adrenaline and various energy upkeep skills such as warriors endurance, which for someone who attack is amazing. For monks, they are impractical, and so they just use say, offering of blood, and their natural regen. Taking away the regen, there are very very few monks who could do anything for more than 3 seconds. And its not 'by itself'. as an energy drainer youll be echoing energy drain to burn them down to more or less nothing, then spamming backfire, diversion and anything else you feel until your low on energy. If they aint dead by then, THEN you put on ether lord, which gives you 10 seconds to wait for energy drain to cooldown. Whatsmore, theyll probably be dead by then, and the cycles ready to start again.

ZD_kusanagi · Jul 31, 2005, 09:08 PM // 21:08

malaise and wither arn't meant for only one target. yes there will be a NR being spammed most likely, but if you can cast wither and malaise on as many targets as possible, it does start to hurt the team. combined with skills like energy drain( if your not running wither), energy tap, inspired hex, drain enchantment, you can keep it up over the 30 second natures renewal. an it starts to seriously drop the damage and healing powers of the entire enemy team. this strategy could work wonders in gvg since piri groups are all but extinct there.

rii · Jul 31, 2005, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Its not 30 seconds renewal, its 10 seconds from oath shot. And there, lies the problem. If it was only 30 seconds it might not be so bad i suppose.

It could work, but it seems a bit hit and miss to me, so ill just stick with energy drain and ether lord

. Each to their own.

ZD_kusanagi · Jul 31, 2005, 09:22 PM // 21:22

I did what you said and went to yakitos wither/malaise dilemma... and i have something to ask.. did you actually READ all of it? in the end they al figured out that its actually a good combo lol... with the quick recharge time, and the not horrible energy cost, it absolutely outstrips a monks healing.. if you are talking about the weapon switching, they taked about how that's even uneffective. go back and read it please. THEn post an argument. because with that thread, it just strengths how maliase can be used effectively.

rii · Jul 31, 2005, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Yes, after going over it again, they said it kicked ass in the arena. In the arena, you can do whatever you want and it wont make a difference. However, against someone who knows what it is, it is not good. 2-3 seconds to change weapon is conservative, id say 1-2. 5 energy for a 1-2 second 'interrupt' seems alright, but its not just that. If you want to be really effective, youve got to spam it on everyone, and at the rate theyll be switching (cause they will be switching) youll be constantly casting. Not only is this impractical, youll run out of energy before they run out of bodily fuel to press f2 f1, especially since youve got no elite and therefore cant get something like energy drain, on top of that, your spending all of your time doing this. The switching was said to be uneffective, but what the thing actually meant was switching weapons is a 'good' thing to achieve, and therefore they thought it was alright. The other fact that monks often hit 0 energy anyway didnt seem to arise. Whatsmore, unless you trap a monk between 0-5 energy, theyll always be able to cast with whats left. That means they can hit 0 and cancel, something youve aided them doing. And they havent even broken their stride, all theyve lost is a couple of seconds energy regen.

Yukito calls it 'game balancing' that weapon switching is so spammable and easy to counter. However, the counter is imbalancingly better than the skill, so its not worth it.

Red Locust · Jul 31, 2005, 11:01 PM // 23:01

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Originally Posted by arredondo

This is forum theory at work, because in the real world, none of this is ever a problem. Ever. A lot of ideas come and go as we post our thoughts, but at some point it's best to actually see something fail hard and easy before one shoots it down.

1). No, it never happens. If they try to remove a hex, they NEVER wait for Fragility (wait) Phantom Pain (wait) Shatter Delusions (wait.... ok, now remove the hex). That's a completely unrealistic scenario that I've never seen after pulling that combo off 100s of times.

2). I always allow time for a hex removal to take away Phantom Pain, if only because I want some degen to ensure maximum punishment. If he's not a class with a remover or hasn't removed any hexes to this point, I rarely need to worry.

3). I got my whole chain off? Lol, the last thing I care about is him removing Fragility, becuase if he isn't healing his butt, he's running with 10% of life left (provided I didn't kill him).

Martyr? I've seen it used, and the Conditions come way to fast for A) a monk to recognize who's being hurt by Deep Wound, and B) removing it before I cast Virulence .7 seconds after Phantom Pain gets cut (1.5 if I shattered it with the after cast).

Once down, he has three seconds to remove the Conditions, half of the damage BTW has being already triggered by Fragility. And as I said elesewhere, those Conditions go somewhere - to the Monk who cast Martyr. I usually target monks first anyway, and when i saw one taking on people's Conditions, I Fragility+Virulence'd him and he was the one looking for help. Lastly, considering this combo kills in 10 seconds, their Martyr cast has to be precise because they only get one chance to do it right.

As for the versatility of it, it depends on how you build around it. I daresay, my version listed in the post above (now using Hex Breaker for IoW), it is one of the most self-sustaining, offensively versatile builds around. I do damage, I give support, I don't need to do all the casts to stay effective.... I show it all in that thread and to this day in Arenas it's still extremely successful. HoH and vs. Spirit Spam? Show me any caster build that dominates the Ranger madness and I'll comment.

Once again, it's a very one-dimensional build. You're running 2 hexes, and one of them you remove in order to get everything else to work.

Fragility will be painfully vulnerable to hex removal, and with it gone, what are you doing? Phantom pain and shatter delusions? Great, a deep wound that will soon be gone, and 50 something damage. Virulence? 3 seconds of poison + disease, awesome.
Personally, if I'm running hex removal, we always agree to call out the topmost hex on them. It's nothing hard to do, and very important; you don't wanna be removing guilt, shame, diversion, that kinda crap. Phantom pain is pretty much a full-time cover hex, so I'm not gonna take the time to remove it unless someone else is running hex removal. This is not theorycraft, it is common sense

What else are you running? I assume you got fragility, pp, sd, virulence, some energy gain skill, rez signet, that leaves you with only 2 necro/mesmer skills. You can't even take putrid explosion since it conflicts with virulence in your build.

Basically, your whole gimmick relies on them removing phantom pain and nothing else. Someone else piling hexes on top of phantom pain? You're screwed. 2 or more enemy hex removals? Screwed yet again. There are unfortunately many different scenarios that can occur, and the only one that works for you is 'fragility stays, phantom pain goes'.

Don't take this as me shooting down your build, like many people seem to do. Take it as me pointing out the weaknesses. Your build isn't gonna get any better with people patting you on the back and saying "good job."

arredondo · Aug 01, 2005, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Oh please dude. You and your kind are so full of yourselves it's ridiculous. I've been at these forums for awhile now and noticed that you are one of three or four couch generals here who sit around all the time looking for ideas of others to shoot down, oftentimes with a snobbish elite tone in your words as if someone can't possibly come up with something useful. I haven't had to deal with it too much, but it's sad to see other players get their attempts at looking at something differently, whether it works out or not, just wiped aside or even ridiculed when there's obviously plenty out there left to learn.

For others reading, here's the build of mine I'm discussing in this thread here. I presented this as a potent Arena build and nothing more - and the primary combo I built around is one of the top 5 strongest in the game that I've seen easily. If I were making a GvG or HoH build, I wouldn't focus on this as a solo character as much as putting togetherthe eight skills as one part of an entire team. No matter what teammates I'm hooked up with, I kill fast with this build as many others out there who are using variations can attest to.

Guess what genius, I absolutely KNOW the weakness of this build and its limitations. Have I tried to deny or hide any of that in my original thread on Fragility+Virulence? No. What build has no weaknesses? I've outlined in general as many ways to shut it down as I could think of... common and uncommon. In the end, what pushes your forum theory off the table of just brushing this aside is that IT GETS RESULTS in the real world despite the shortcomings.

I've said it in my thread, and I'll say it again, I've won HUNDREDS of Arena matches using this thing... and I was able to get away with not using an anti-hex skill because no one was using it against me until recently. I was able to get by with kiting a bit and Illusion of Weakness to get me through 99% of the hexes, but THIS one literally made me wake up to reality. If I don't have an interrupt on my other builds, then I'm forced to bring something to deal with hexes unlike before (speaking of general Arena experiences only).

So please, do NOT try and tell me what works and doesn't work until you tell me how many 100s of matches you've played running this thing, and even then it's doubtful you play it like I do. When I encounter strong resistance (multiple interrupts, hex breaker, energy denial, etc), touche to the well prepared! I accept it and move on to a less defended opponent and call for my teammates to take care of my problem opponent. I acknowledge that if he is my weakness, then likely he's not also built to take on my teammates - and that's worked fine, but it's RARE when I face someone who solo shuts me down (8-10 times at the most in hundreds of matches).

However I've not ONCE played a team where there were two separate players who stopped me if I moved on to another. It hasn't happend once. So take your forum theory and quit waving it around like it means something. Now, let's get right to your BS for those keeping score at home:

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Fragility will be painfully vulnerable to hex removal, and with it gone, what are you doing?

Thank you for pointing out an obvious truth... not only is Fragility now worthless, so are the other 63 hexes in the game! 24 of those hexes are Mesmer skills, about 1/3rd of his entire skill list! I see how well you're narrowing things down to those uber-unstoppable skills I should work on instead, and it is truly appreciated. My problem is, it's hard being patient waiting for those jewels to materialize. Please take the time and make a list so we won't make such silly errors again. And to think some may want you to keep your insightful talents all to yourself.

As I said in that post link above, I don't stand still crying if Fragility is taken from me. And, as I said there, I still need to know what build maintains top efficiency when a primary skill is gone. You simply adjust. Go back and read the thread again (you did post there) if you need a refresher course. I'll just say again for the record, unless I'm REALLY shut down, I have no problems adjusting the best way possible.

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Phantom pain and shatter delusions? Great, a deep wound that will soon be gone, and 50 something damage.

With my build, that Deep Wound lasts 20 seconds - so much for your definition of "soon". Shattered Delusions takes 67 damage, definitely a decent number for what I'm using it for here. On a 500 HP build, that's 167 damage which is definitely nothing to sneeze at. If this is the mini-combo I choose to use outside of Fragility, it is for a specific purpose. Either I apply it on an opponent that's under assault by a teammate (you know, employing tactics instead of being a robot) or I find an anti-hex protected enemy (I check the classes) who's hurting a lot. A spike of 167 can kill at around 35% life. There are a number of things I make up on the fly with my options. If I see an opening, I take advantage. If not, I try something else.

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Virulence? 3 seconds of poison + disease, awesome.

Oh please. Are you REALLY this full of yourself in person? Do you think you just made a point here, or do you enjoy watching your mindless babble spill across the screen? Ignored.

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Personally, if I'm running hex removal, we always agree to call out the topmost hex on them. It's nothing hard to do, and very important; you don't wanna be removing guilt, shame, diversion, that kinda crap. Phantom pain is pretty much a full-time cover hex, so I'm not gonna take the time to remove it unless someone else is running hex removal. This is not theorycraft, it is common sense

When I see hex removals (or the potential of one, depending on the class I go after), I react differently with the order and the timing of my casts. I explained it in general detail in the thread link. Go back and put 2 and 2 together, but you won't find some impenetrable, unstoppable technique that I use to ensure 100% application everytime on everyone... which is what you're implying here. But in many cases, I find a hole somewhere to squeeze my madness in with this build - if not you then a teammate.

But again, I must pause to say THANK YOU for looking so special to all the GW PvP world in revealing your incrdibly innovative defensive strategies for all of us to see. Correction - you're not pointing out ANYTHING that isn't obvious to an experienced player, or anything that I haven't in general acknowledged and that I take into account on my own. Once again, what build DOESN'T have weaknesses to exploit? All I can say is, in the real world this build on its own works as good as any other, and even better than a lot I see out there.

The forum theory snipe I made was at your consistent attempt to isolate ideas as if they stand on theri own, not seeing that in a fluid match a lot of factors can play apart at how successful a tactic can be employed. Summary? I've done this stuff repeatedly and even with its acknowledge shortcomings, it's working out fine so far! It won't make sense with mere forum theories... make the build yourself, play it for a few days at the Arenas, come back and report on your experiences. If you even try and say you failed more than succeeded (even if your teammates suck at times), all I can do is laugh at your skillz.

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What else are you running? I assume you got fragility, pp, sd, virulence, some energy gain skill, rez signet, that leaves you with only 2 necro/mesmer skills. You can't even take putrid explosion since it conflicts with virulence in your build.

Go back and read my post for the full build. You are foolish enough to criticize something here that you obviously don't fully comprehend. No, truth be told I'm just blindly pushing buttons in order like it's Dance Dance Revolution. Who knows why it works, I don't even glance at the screen half the time. No tactics, no strategy, I just get by with a worthless spike build and can't explain. You are unreal.

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Basically, your whole gimmick relies on them removing phantom pain and nothing else. Someone else piling hexes on top of phantom pain? You're screwed. 2 or more enemy hex removals? Screwed yet again. There are unfortunately many different scenarios that can occur, and the only one that works for you is 'fragility stays, phantom pain goes'.

I put a few separate cast options that I use in that thread, the skill cast order and selection of which is determined by many factors - the opponent's defense, the priority of the target I select, whether I go Rambo or team up with someone from the start, my energy remaining, my health, the enemy's health, the condition of my teammates (do they need help or a rez?), the distance I am to the main skirmish (I like to lure enemies away from their healers), the layout of the map, the hexes/conditions I have on me, noticing UNREMOVED hexes and conditions on others by my teammates (a huge clue of an easy target), the potential to attack a distracted opponent casting/fighting away from me, the classes least likely to resist my attacks (i.e. no anti-hex options on a Ele/Nec),

... sooooooooooo many things I keep in mind, and I may choose other actions altogether. But I must be over thinking this. I guess it's much easier for one to sit on his butt, let out a fart, and write things like, "uhm.... I just need to remove your hex and you lose, duuuuuuuuuuuh". I've played this, it has holes (like ANY OTHER BUILD), it works very well, and no amount of forum theory will change this fact.

If this build is nothing more than one gimmick that's so effortlessly screwed over by elites such as yourself, PLEASE show me these incredible builds of yours that aren't (ultimately) gimmicks! Where are they? Post them up! The famous phrase is that one leads by example... give us some examples of your uber-fantastic, infinitely unstoppable, multi-tasking multi-purposed, undefendable, self sustaining wonder build, protecting you from all hexes, conditions, melee, and elements, using eight non-hex skills and works just fine when one or two primary skills are stopped, so I can just shut up and just and sit here in awe.

This is a SERIOUS request because of all the BS you and your type shoot around these forums... let me see what YOU succeed with in Arenas please (we already know of your HoH white flags), because I can't wait to be impressed. If you don't then maybe it is YOU that finally needs to shut up, and stop sticking out your chest as if you're some kind of PvP demigod, where no new knowledge can pass to these forums without your blessings.

That goes to all the other armchair-generals out there that like to beatup on other people's creativity instead of being constructive and open to new ideas. You know who you are. Again for others reading this, it's this is not a reaction so much to me personally, but the general attitude I see around here towards others who just shy away when their ideas are reflexively attacked by the snobs.

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Don't take this as me shooting down your build, like many people seem to do. Take it as me pointing out the weaknesses. Your build isn't gonna get any better with people patting you on the back and saying "good job."

Thanks dad, I feel swell now. You want to make my build better... well make it better! Show me where you can significantly improve it beyond my wildest dreams. My win rate has never been higher since I've used it, and I've topped 10K faction twice getting the most of how it runs (I'm onto other experiments now however). But I'm all open to you polishing it over for me. I keep reading your post over and over and haven't yet found one nugget of new info that most of us didn't already know. While you're at it, post up one of YOUR builds, and then we'll see what's what.

Red Locust · Aug 01, 2005, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Man, tone down the personal attacks a little, you're getting so frustrated over a game, and it's pointless. I'm just here, like most of us, to burn free time at the office or while too busy to actually play some GW.
Back to on-topic...

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Thank you for pointing out an obvious truth... not only is Fragility now worthless, so are the other 63 hexes in the game! 24 of those hexes are Mesmer skills, about 1/3rd of his entire skill list! I see how well you're narrowing things down to those uber-unstoppable skills I should work on instead, and it is truly appreciated. My problem is, it's hard being patient waiting for those jewels to materialize. Please take the time and make a list so we won't make such silly errors again. And to think some may want you to keep your insightful talents all to yourself.

As I said in that post link above, I don't stand still crying if Fragility is taken from me. And, as I said there, I still need to know what build maintains top efficiency when a primary skill is gone. You simply adjust. Go back and read the thread again (you did post there) if you need a refresher course. I'll just say again for the record, unless I'm REALLY shut down, I have no problems adjusting the best way possible.

Thank you for totally missing the point. I'm not saying fragility is worthless because it's a hex...
I'm saying that half your goddamn skill bar relies on fragility staying on there.

Let's say I'm running a mesmer with backfire, blackout, diversion and power block. Shortly after I lay down backfire, it gets removed. Big deal, I still have diversion and power block to seriously screw with casters, as well as blackout to totally shut down an important target when it matters.
Now let's say you come in and lay down fragility, and it gets removed. Half your skillbar has just become nothing more than a minor nuisance, which brings me to your next quote:

Quote:

With my build, that Deep Wound lasts 20 seconds - so much for your definition of "soon". Shattered Delusions takes 67 damage, definitely a decent number for what I'm using it for here. On a 500 HP build, that's 167 damage which is definitely nothing to sneeze at. If this is the mini-combo I choose to use outside of Fragility, it is for a specific purpose. Either I apply it on an opponent that's under assault by a teammate (you know, employing tactics instead of being a robot) or I find an anti-hex protected enemy (I check the classes) who's hurting a lot. A spike of 167 can kill at around 35% life. There are a number of things I make up on the fly with my options. If I see an opening, I take advantage. If not, I try something else.

You took this way too literally. I'm aware of deep wound's duration, I'm also aware that everybody and their dog carries condition removal and uses it on sight. Let's not kid ourselves here, you'd never take phantom pain + shatter delusions if it weren't for this particular build, because it's simply not nearly good enough to earn its 2 slots. Top it off with phantom's 15s timer, and you're pretty much sitting on your ass scratching someone's armor, if fragility is not present.

Quote:

[Regarding virulence]
Oh please. Are you REALLY this full of yourself in person? Do you think you just made a point here, or do you enjoy watching your mindless babble spill across the screen? Ignored.

Again, taken way out of context. This was just referring to the dependence of virulence on fragility to do anything worthwile.

Quote:

But again, I must pause to say THANK YOU for looking so special to all the GW PvP world in revealing your incrdibly innovative defensive strategies for all of us to see. Correction - you're not pointing out ANYTHING that isn't obvious to an experienced player, or anything that I haven't in general acknowledged and that I take into account on my own. Once again, what build DOESN'T have weaknesses to exploit? All I can say is, in the real world this build on its own works as good as any other, and even better than a lot I see out there.

The forum theory snipe I made was at your consistent attempt to isolate ideas as if they stand on their own, not seeing that in a fluid match a lot of factors can play apart at how successful a tactic can be employed. Summary? I've done this stuff repeatedly and even with its acknowledge shortcomings, it's working out fine so far! It won't make sense with mere forum theories... make the build yourself, play it for a few days at the Arenas, come back and report on your experiences. If you even try and say you failed more than succeeded (even if your teammates suck at times), all I can do is laugh at your skillz.

I hate to sound like a broken record, and I thought this would be common sense by now, but I guess I was wrong. Every build has a weakness, it's a matter of minimizing your weaknesses that separates a good build from a bad one. Some skills (wards, spirits, instant-effect spells) are difficult to counter, while others (conditions, hexes) are much easier and their counter is much more abundant.

Oh, and as you yourself hinted, how does this build contribute to the team? Other than fragility possibly aiding a condition warrior, and backfire doing its 10 seconds of caster shutdown (or less, depending on hex removal), what's so hot about your build that adds to the fluidity of the team as a whole? The way I see it, you're contributing nothing more than an elementalist throwing down a chain lightning and lightning orb.

You want some advice? How about some enchantment removal? You're a me/n for god's sake, the god of enchantment stripping. And what about energy management? Some points in inspiration and an inspired hex/enchantment would do much more good than an extra couple damage on your fragility. You're pretty much babysitting one target, so a power drain could also do wonders towards your longevity. Basically, anything to keep you casting, since you're gonna need it while recasting 15e fragilities and 10e phantom pains (and while also apparently running distortion).

You want to see my builds? I haven't posted that many lately, but feel free to look up a hammer war build I posted recently, or some other solo monk build or minor skill suggestions in other people's builds (some people have even PMed me asking for a build, to which I happily replied with what I thought were very respectable builds). Feel free to criticize them and rip them up all you want. After all that's why I posted them here, for other people to dig up the dirt on them and show my where I screwed up. I don't post them here to flaunt my great success and my 100-something wins in the almighty arena (like someone here

) and then start hissing at anyone who takes a stab at 'em.

My first post in this thread was simply to point out a number of flaws/weaknesses in the build, and you turned it into an "OMG why are you saying my build is crap" discussion.

ZD_kusanagi · Aug 01, 2005, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Holy shit, those were the longest threads i've ever seen in my life. Are we even talking about the mesmer anymore? it seems we are basically jsut going around calling each other idiots for not viewing things 'our' way.

rii · Aug 01, 2005, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Calm down guys, its only a game

.

As regards fragility, this is all that needs be said:
- Its a solo hex. that is the fundamental problem. true arren, there are lots of hexes around, but they all have cover hexes so a simple remove hex isnt enough. Frag doesnt use cover hexes, you need to whack the conditions as soon as possible, there just isnt time. Other hexes dont have this problem.

- Even in the arena nowadays, when i play monk and i get a team worth telling, i tell them to ctrl+click frag the second they get it on them. Its not impractical at all. Only about 10% of people do so , but the ones that do get remove hex and they survive. Phantom pain isnt much of a cover hex if your shattering it matey.

Every build has a weakness, and the weaknesses of this build have been exposed. Its an arena team and comp build, nothing more, by both of your acceptances.

Virulence WAS creative, so was the original frag by freyas. and most accept this. However, most people arent looking for creativity, they are looking for what some people would call 'ownage', and this build, whilst fulfilling the criteria of kicking ass, has enough holes to be unservicable against a decent team and so they counter it.

lets not forget nr spamming also kicks this builds ass.

What are the problems now?

arredondo · Aug 02, 2005, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Instead of coming back with both guns blazing, I'm gonna bite my tongue the best I can because the main point was made... some of it went over your head obviously, but I said what I wanted to say nonetheless.

I don't think you or any others I'm thinking of are bad people, but seriously - screw you when you guys reflexively trash other menbers' posts who have a new thought that they want input on simply because "NR beats it", etc. I don't count my thread or idea as it's gotten plenty of great responses.

Also it wasn't an idea that I was speculating on as much as it was a finished product to share with others, tested throughly and extensively to know that it maximizes its stregnth like no other Mesmer build: kill hard and fast while not being killed yourself. Every build should have a clear purpose, and to that end, mine does exactly what it means to do.

"Stop trying to do something you're not meant to do."
"You're not SUPPOSED to be trying to focus on damage."
"As a Mesmer, <insert tactic> is what you should be doing"

...were ridiculous phrases I'd see around here in response to people's ideas. This elitist attitude that forum elders hammer into posters less aggressive than myself (I can defend my ideas if they work) I'm sure causes a few to let their potentially great thoughts fade away as they try to please the omniscent elders, reluctant to come up with or share new stuff in the future. Since 99% of the time I learn great new ideas NOT from the long time BWE Snob Society, but from some no-name who's been just fiddling around with things, I had to finally go after one of you so that our source of NEW ideas doesn't dry up.

We're all learning and NO one has tried every combination of 8 skills in every way to know what might lead to where. If one tiny little idea plays a small but significant role in containing Ranger builds, these forum elders will be the firsts ones dismissing the next new idea that comes along like before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

My first post in this thread was simply to point out a number of flaws/weaknesses in the build, and you turned it into an "OMG why are you saying my build is crap" discussion.

No. As I said a number of times, this is about a real pet peeve of mine that goes beyond what anyone thinks of the build I posted. I know my build works devastatingly well, definitely one of the top 5 dangerous Arena builds in existence right now (maybe top 3). 98% of the time, your little "what if" scenarios aren't a factor because 98% of the opponents in Arenas don't bring/have Hex Breaker. That is the only consistent anti-hex stopper besides interrupts. Double/triple teams, energy denial, etc. work, but when I go toe to toe with any other damaging build, I win virtually every single time.

This again is NOT forum theory - I am dealing with pure experience from the 100s of matches that you seem to dismiss. Unless YOU have experience running it, you are just speculating from your arm chair, plain and simple. Sometimes it works in commenting on an idea, but in this instance you couldn't be more wrong about its effectiveness as it is. Not an opinion based on speculation, but a fact based on experience.

Quote:

Oh, and as you yourself hinted, how does this build contribute to the team? Other than fragility possibly aiding a condition warrior, and backfire doing its 10 seconds of caster shutdown (or less, depending on hex removal), what's so hot about your build that adds to the fluidity of the team as a whole? The way I see it, you're contributing nothing more than an elementalist throwing down a chain lightning and lightning orb.

What do I do that an Air Ele can't? Shut down (or punish) casters, high damage without armor or elemental defenses, control/punish hex removal opponents, cause close to max damage if initial casts aren't stopped, un-dodgeable spells (the Lightning Orb slide). Even if it was perfectly comparable to Air Eles, that's a GOOD thing when it comes to damage as there are few high damage spike builds in the game so far, and ALL of them have stoppers. Now, the Air Ele builds have a lot of advantages over this one too (no hexes, etc), but hopefully that goes without saying. They each have their own uses, they each potentially serve a purpose with amazing damage.

Quote:

Now let's say you come in and lay down fragility, and it gets removed. Half your skillbar has just become nothing more than a minor nuisance,

Read, watch and learn. All of that is easily accounted for. You want to deal specifically with Fragility without Hex Breaker (the best stopper against it)? Good luck. Interrupting a .6 - .7 cast is amazingly tough (I've tried). Hex removals? On a caster class, I have a field day with that because they need to wait for recharge if it works. Almost every single time, I cast Back Fire on my casters first, so if they remove that, I can lay down Fragility-->Phantom Pain for free. Again that is if I face maybe the 1 in 10 player who even removes hexes (Monks are the most common and more frequent removers).

Regardless of how few people try it, your concern of Fragility removal as it stands in the real world right now is very, very, very insignificant - not a primary concern at all. More specifically I never had someone take on Back Fire and THEN remove Fragility which delivers 126 in BF damage. NEVER. This is why I slam you so hard with forum theories.... in the real world these scenarios just don't play out this way. Removers go after the first hex (if it's safe and they're smart), so Back Fire is easy bait to free up my next casts. Unless I know that the Frag-Viral combo is coming at me, I'd remove Back Fire too.

The best chance is for someone to remove Fragility from my style is to interrupt BF. Now, I usually cast BF as they are casting to minimize my chance of them interrupting it (takes 2 seconds with my Fast Cast), so I'll take their first hit without a problem to ensure BF gets a good chance of connecting. So assuming they interrupt BF, I can see then that they are able to remove Fragility if they do it in the 2.2 seconds that Phantom Pain is coming down (Fragility takes .7 seconds to cast, .75 aftercast added before PP's 1.5s). Even here, the frequency of this in the real world right now is too tiny to calculate as a legitimate worry - Remove Hex takes 2 full seconds to cast! Look out for PP's Deep Wound if they are late by more than .2 seconds....

So more often than not, they've removed BF with their only hex defenses. The removal is more often than not recharging. So far we have the relatively uncommon instance of hex removals (most people don't carry them, please check the first 50 build threads here and I'll bet not even five have one, including yours below) coupled with removing the right hex at the right time - I don't think its happend to me and I explained why. In the real world, I kill fast and often because of this fact, not forum theory.

The Mesmers two hex removals (Inspired and Shatter) take 20 and 10 seconds to recharge respectively. In 10 seconds, I'll have them down to 10% health or they'll be dead - no hex removal to stop me. The Monk hex removals? Purge Signet is a joke for this purpose as it takes three full seconds to work AND it takes 30 seconds to recharge. Remove Hex is what I face most often - during that 7 second recharge time, I can easily get off my big combo with ease. Contemplation Purity is the only one I don't think I've seen in action (here's MY forum theory at work), but if a Monk/Monk subclass is willing to donate his enchantments to the cause, I'd still have time for Fragility and Phantom Pain to be applied (with Fast Cast), so they'd remove PP and be in a world of pain.

That leaves Nature's Renewal for Rangers (if I'm not mistaken about others). We know how strong it is in HoH, we know how rare it is in Arenas (which wouldn't stop it as well long term if only one Ranger is trying to spam it).

So your speculation ideas, based on experience for most of my response, just don't happen in the real world at this time. Not enough for me to worry about at least. I know the weaknesses before I even posted it, took it into account and refined my build, and now know I don't need to fear these things nearly as much as you think one needs to.

Especially how you try and hammer how "worthless" my skills are without Fragility. Even without it, as my other link points out, I am VERY busy with other things, regardless of forum theories. 100% efficiency? Like EVERY OTHER BUILD the answer is no, but I'll be close to that when it recharges. In the meantime I can still BF-->PP a caster into nothingness, followed by a painful 40% total damage when it causes 8 seconds of -3 degen followed by Shattered Delusions. That's -50%+ if they try to cast at least once through BF. And this is just one real outcome of what I do, not forum theory about what you THINK might happen.

So, you offered vague "solutions" to what I don't see as broken. Next time, specifically tell me what to take out when you add something since we both know I only get eight slots. I can't do everything, so tell me, what is the goal of my build supposed to be, and what 8 skills best accomplish it? For this build, it was maximum damage output with decent defense/protection. Let's see what you suggest... I'll guess on the replacements:

Quote:

Let's say I'm running a mesmer with backfire, blackout, diversion and power block. Shortly after I lay down backfire, it gets removed. Big deal, I still have diversion and power block to seriously screw with casters, as well as blackout to totally shut down an important target when it matters.

Quote:

I'm aware of deep wound's duration, I'm also aware that everybody and their dog carries condition removal and uses it on sight. Let's not kid ourselves here, you'd never take phantom pain + shatter delusions if it weren't for this particular build, because it's simply not nearly good enough to earn its 2 slots. Top it off with phantom's 15s timer, and you're pretty much sitting on your ass scratching someone's armor, if fragility is not present.

So let's assume power Block replaces Virulence. I assume your problem with PP-->SD armor scratching damage is now needless in any other build (example of your ignorant forum theory attempts once again - I have two or three other builds that kill quick and use this combo). In comes Black Out and Diversion as your suggestions. No conditions and no Virulence? Fragility is gone too. That makes it look like this:

Black Out
Diversion
Power Block
Distortion
Hex Breaker
Back Fire
Rez
????

Mine is currently:

Fragility
Phantom Pain
Shatter Delusions
Virulence
Distortion
Hex Breaker
Back Fire
Rez

OK, even incomplete you have a TOTALLY different build that serves a totally different purpose. Caster disruption is a fine role, and I won't pretend that it isn't. Here we see multiple casters are annoyed, the player is protected from hexes and melee/arrows are easy to deal with. With Plague Touch or Illusion of Weakness (you can match this build with any secondary), a player can do some consistent disruption, especially since recharge times are low as well as energy consumption. All of this is forum thoery of course, but I at least have direct experience with the combination of defenses.... the combination of the others I can only play out in my mind.

Here's where we separate. Regardless of it's usefulness, it is a different category and doesn't apply. You may as well use this build to dismiss any Mesmer build because they too will serve a different purpose. You choose here to show a way to help your team kill the opponent while staying alive, because we both agree, you ain't killing nobody. At all. The arena rounds end when kills are calculated, and the scenic route chosen here is so other players can do the killing (not unlike a Monk who's healing). Because of caster disruption, they can kill much easier, but the responsibility lies with them. Not a wrong choice, but a different one.

Is there a rule saying a Mesmer can't/shouldn't kill? Only with the forum elders it seems. What happens when your main killer goes down, who's going to stop the bad guys? What happens when you don't Power Block a vital attribute (happend to me before) or miss altogether, can't a Mesmer interrupt your Diversion with ease? You can't spam Diversion if he waits six seconds and then interrupts for for doing it again. What happens when he has Hex Breaker too to stop it?

Honestly, you don't have to answer these questions because like my responses above, I know there is PLENTY to do on an active field.... these skills do a lot to help except one thing - kill the bad guys. Your options set up the bad guys to be killed easier, but I take out the middle man and kill them myself. After one Power Block an Air Ele recovers 15+ seconds later, and is free to cause full havok for awhile, with more energy in some cases due to recharge. With all your other disruption going on, it still helped the team a lot not to deal with him, but he has full skills, energy, and health.

For my choice in the Frag-Virul build (I have a lot of non-killer builds too), I kill him well below that 15 seconds, so he's not a bother to anyone. That is the results I'm speaking of. If I didn't get the ultimate objective to work so fast and well (annhilate the enemy according to the in-game text), I'd see where the alternative skills you present could be "better". For pure killing, it's worthless. For energy denial, it's worthless. If I need disruption however, I'll give it a go. No one build can do everything, so changing the purpose of what CLEARLY is a death stalker build serves no purpose here. Try again if you have suggestions for making it a better killer than it already is, THEN I can properly evaluate the suggestions. You continue:

Quote:

You want some advice? How about some enchantment removal? You're a me/n for god's sake, the god of enchantment stripping. And what about energy management? Some points in inspiration and an inspired hex/enchantment would do much more good than an extra couple damage on your fragility. You're pretty much babysitting one target, so a power drain could also do wonders towards your longevity. Basically, anything to keep you casting, since you're gonna need it while recasting 15e fragilities and 10e phantom pains (and while also apparently running distortion).

Unless you tell me EXACTLY what to sub in and out, your suggestions have little purpose at all. I have eight slots and have filled them. Don't just shake the bag of skills, pull out one and say stick it in. Anything I remove has a consequence... will the benefit out weigh it? I'll take your forum theory if you are more specific, I'll test it out and give a real world report.

The one exception is the energy concern - your forum theory is wrong. As I said in my main thread several times from REAL experience, energy is not a concern at all. I may wait a few seconds for certain skills to recharge, but my energy is definitely not a concern. Distortion is being used is when I kite... energy is recharging faster than I use it so the impact is minimal. In time I have enough energy to Distort, cast the full combo on a Warrior, and he dies right in front of me. I do not need energy more than the other skills listed.

Finally:

Quote:

You want to see my builds? I haven't posted that many lately, but feel free to look up a hammer war build I posted recently, or some other solo monk build or minor skill suggestions in other people's builds (some people have even PMed me asking for a build, to which I happily replied with what I thought were very respectable builds). Feel free to criticize them and rip them up all you want. After all that's why I posted them here, for other people to dig up the dirt on them and show my where I screwed up. I don't post them here to flaunt my great success and my 100-something wins in the almighty arena (like someone here ) and then start hissing at anyone who takes a stab at 'em.

If something works well enough to succeed after 100s of tests, then it's a testament to the build regardless if you think it's "flaunting". My build serves a purpose and does it extremely well. What's the purpose of your build? Well let's see...

Quote:

Oh yeah, hammer warriors are very popular in PvP. Not only do they provide knockdowns which are great for shutting down a target, but once fully charged with adrenaline, a hammer warrior can deliver some serious spike damage. A hammer war with fully charged adrenal skills and frenzy can outright kill weakened targets in a matter of seconds.

You don't see all that many hammer builds 'cause you don't really get lots of options; most hammer War builds look the same. There are certain skills everyone takes, and certain skills that noone takes. Your basic hammer build has the following:

Devastating Hammer {e}
Crushing Blow
Mighty Blow (optional)
Heavy Blow
Frenzy
Sprint
Rez Signet
**optional** <= this could be a skill from your secondary class, or a warrior skill for more damage or increased adrenaline

Charge up all your adren skills, then chain skills 1 thru 4 in quick succession while frenzied. Trigger sprint in case you need to get rid of frenzy in a hurry, or if you want to chase someone (not recommended).

Hmmm, seems to be similar in purpose to mine. opponent shutdown (knockdown vs. my Back Fire), spike damage, killing in seconds... amazing the fault's you found in the Fragility build are absent from your own post. How does one deal with your build? Lol, mine alone makes mince meat of your Hammer warrior with out breathing hard. Distortion with -1E loss for your swings allows me to get in a /taunt, a friendly /wave, and then I can unleash the full combo on you and you have no way to stop it (unless you decided to bring Hex Breaker in that empty slot). I've killed more Warriors than just about any class.

Also, my original post on this build had Sympathetic Visage as an alternate to IoW (now Hex Breaker). I've used it in battle and guess what? This is the anti-Hammer Warrior's "Hex Breaker". If I use that, your entire movelist is worthless. Not a bit worthless... nearly completely worthless. You touch me once, you lose ALL adrenaline as well as -5E: that's everytime you swing at my enchant. That's AoE by the way, so your other Warrior buddies can thank you for helping drain all their energy and adrenaline.

Remove the enchant with a skill in your free slot? Yes, then I Distort until I bring it up again. Out of twelve Hammer skills, all but four need adrenaline to work, and all but one of them will whiff often because of Distortion. Go fight someone else on my team? Lol, I'll cast it on whomever you swing at. At least you can sprint away from my Virulence cast once I've laid Fragility+PP+Deep Wound on you. That's something at least.

Now, despite the fact that I've already done this to Hammer Warriors with this build using SV (not mere forum theory), I can attest to it's effectiveness. Later I found SV wasn't needed since Distortion is more than enough until a take them out (if needed). Does that make your build a poor one? Of course not, and my aggressive analysis was only to point out how NOT to look at a build or an idea. Your build has a great purpose unless it faces a weakness, like any other build. Many forum elders have a very small view of the context to look at things. Unlike me, some other members will shy back if they don't get support for what they present - even if not perfect, sometimes little useful nuggets can be found.

You're not alone in this approach. I almost got riled up in this thread for the same reason I went at you here originally. This elitism attitude (begins on page 3) when coupled with just raw ignorance is ridiculous. YES the Ranger's NR nerfs a ton of builds, but some of the little ideas here are worth exploring. As you can see, I went on and disproved some of their points wrong, while also showing another spot where PP+SD is useful (and again, correcting your absolute dismissal of it as was posted above). Great stuff posted by unknowns (like Icuradik here) help all of us improve if some of you guys take it easy on them. Let's agree to learn from each other and NOT blindly say what isn't possible.

I defend my Fragility+Virulence build here extensively because A) you and your kind have been wrong in some of your speculations despite the authoritative tone you spread around from time to time - it needs to be pointed out, and B) to show others how to think through incorrect "forum theories" provided they've tested their thoughts thoroughly.

You can go on and on with your doomsday scenarios on the "weakness" of this build if you wish, and you'd still be wrong. In the real world, it works, but in the big picture of things, don't be so quick to speak in absolutes about things you don't fully understand or have fully checked out. Someone might be sharing something for all of us to benefit from.

Yukito Kunisaki · Aug 02, 2005, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Every build has a str + weakness.

I'll admit, my malaise wither combo build actually had me thinking that it was worth something but later on, the 'pros' picked it apart. Which is to be expected. You WANT to know what messes up your build.

However, if we'll be talking about my famous threads... [famous... bah

] Remember, it's easier to learn what's wrong then find out the hard way in mid battle...

Thus far, when it comes to Malaise and Wither, it's DAMN good if it's on a conservative level, being a warrior and all. Just chucking it on a foe without hex removal means you can get them down to zero energy. If they weapon switch, what's it mean? [you've got them at 0 energy]. That's the ENTIRE idea behind the build.

Sometimes, people miss the point of a build and then just leave it at that. That's not good...

arredondo · Aug 02, 2005, 12:33 PM // 12:33

^^^ Heh, yeah man.... I've been following some of your posts. Kudos for working on ignored skills. Maybe it won't be much in the end, but who knows until you completely put your all into it, right? With that said, I have a couple of ideas that I'm working on, and I'll share in the near future. Nothing spectacular and it's all still pretty rough around the edges, but it's just a few little things some of which I think you'll appreciate.