Curse

Tozen · May 08, 2005, 11:47 PM // 23:47

My necro dominates in PvE... lemme just say that right away and get on with life. However, I'm really stuggling to come up with a viable PvP strategy. My Dilemna:

If I drop Blood Magic, I lose the ability to nuke and self-heal
In guild vs guild healing isn't as big of a concern, but in any other situation things get annoying really quickly. PvP is all about the focus fire, so I have a hard time dropping some of these moves.

If I drop Curses, I should have just rolled an elementalist.
Curses seem to be the backbone of a necro. I want to cripple my foes, and I've never regreted keeping the cursing line in my build. However, if I go TOO curse heavy I find myself with a weak target but nothing left to attack with. Sitting around for 5-10 seconds with nothing to do just feels like a waste of time.

If I drop Death Magic, I...
Wait? What is this supposed to be used for again? In PvP I never have enough corpses lying around to make these moves useful, and even if there are corpses I have to share them with other necros on my team.

If I drop Soul Reaping, I lose my one form of solid energy regen
I really wish that soul reaping recovered HP too, but it doesn't. I feel that I need this though, so I don't want to drop it.

AND, with having already spread myself too thinly in the necro lines, I don't have enough mana to finish fights, so I turn to my warrior line.

Swords and Axes- I can do more damage with blood magic. (at least at lvl 15)
Hammers- I need the one hand energy item.
Tactics- Great... I can survive, but now what do I hit with?

Input is appreciated!

kermitbuns · May 09, 2005, 08:52 AM // 08:52

I'm working on a nec myself. I imagine, though I'm not an expert, that for PVP you don't really need Soul Reaping, because hardly anyone dies that often and so the returns for the investment really doesn't add up. I'd put a few points in it, but not a lot. Otherwise, it's all about what spells you are using. I would try to strike a balance in skill spending between blood and curse. They are both equally important. As far as the war skills, I really don't spend any in them, because if it comes down to me needing my sword, i'm already dead.

BChan · May 09, 2005, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Well this is what i would do if you are necro primary

1) Necro primaries, imho, are curse/blood buffing dependant. Because you have a small mana pool you're primary focus is to buff up your group and to curse 1 and many targets. The benefit is that if spec'ed right you can lay down alot of curses and conditions and help your group really lay down the law on people.

2) you can change the above statement if you have a guildy necro primary that will get blood is power with you (yes i know its elite, elite gring, etc.). This will let you cross energy buff eachother and really extend your mana pools.

3) soul reaping is good, but i would not make it something i boost past 8. If you are cross buffing each other you have 9 energy regen. thats 3 energy every second. That considered you will get 11 energy anytime someone dies. That is more than enough to get your energy up to cast another spell, and it is very easy to get around this with a rune and left over attr points.

4) I would do Air or Water focus for ele as there are many conditions in there that compliment a curse/blood necro and will allow you to do some good damage, while being able to last in between those energy spikes.

Cordub · May 09, 2005, 08:47 PM // 20:47

STAY AWAY FROM DEATH MAGIC, there is not enough dead bodies in PvP to make it usful and the monk is going to hate having u in the group. Your statment about BLOOD magic is wrong and just makes you sound like a retard. Rethink your your opions and try again, cant heal with blood magic thats is just complet ok im shuting up now.

FrodoFraggins · May 09, 2005, 10:13 PM // 22:13

I've been rocking PvP with death magic for 16 levels now.

Corpses do come in PvP, you just need to know when to use em.
I love it when a group of enemies gangs up on one of my teammates. The teammate dies and BOOM corpse explosion, 202 damage to every one of them. Run in, drop the weakest one. BOOM another corpse explosion. Someone else drops, Chain reaction.

If corpses are spread out, get a horror out of them before they are ressed. With every horror you manage to ressurect you gain +1 people in your group, and they are often ignored (big mistake). Also watch pets...pets love to run into groups of enemies, when the pet dies, free corpse explosion or necrotic traversal. Poisons all surrounding enemies for 16 seconds, that's a long time in PvP.

Cordub · May 09, 2005, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrodoFraggins

I've been rocking PvP with death magic for 16 levels now.

Corpses do come in PvP, you just need to know when to use em.
I love it when a group of enemies gangs up on one of my teammates. The teammate dies and BOOM corpse explosion, 202 damage to every one of them. Run in, drop the weakest one. BOOM another corpse explosion. Someone else drops, Chain reaction.

If corpses are spread out, get a horror out of them before they are ressed. With every horror you manage to ressurect you gain +1 people in your group, and they are often ignored (big mistake). Also watch pets...pets love to run into groups of enemies, when the pet dies, free corpse explosion or necrotic traversal. Poisons all surrounding enemies for 16 seconds, that's a long time in PvP.

Dude, if i saw you in the arena doing that crap i would kill you for fun and then stand there and let your Bone weakass montser hit me and do nothing AT ALL. There are very few skills worth anything in that path, and as for your deathnova the only way you will get one of those off is if you can cast it on your self. Sure i kill Necros first because i know some of them know what they are doing and can be very dangerous. But for you death magic build its a joke, a big joke. Your only going to die over and over and over, as for the death magic spells they dont work if your dead and Nobody wants to rez you because you have no perpose to the team. I would rather have a W/Mo then a Necro that has built in Deathmagic. Just my 2 cent from a Arena junky, im a necro/war my self and you people give us a bad name in the arena.

Tozen · May 10, 2005, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Why is calling blood magic the necro self-heal a bad move? I don't understand... can the other lines do that as well? =P

The corpse suggestion was interesting... Frodo, what else do you take from the Death line besides putrid explosion, necrotic traversal, or minion? Because of the lack of corpses in PvP I can only see one corpse move as viable option, and I can't think of other abilities that could benefit from all those points in the death line.

Keep the input coming... it's all valuable to me. (And if at all possible, complete sentences are appreciated ^^)

Cordub · May 10, 2005, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tozen

Why is calling blood magic the necro self-heal a bad move? I don't understand... can the other lines do that as well? =P

The corpse suggestion was interesting... Frodo, what else do you take from the Death line besides putrid explosion, necrotic traversal, or minion? Because of the lack of corpses in PvP I can only see one corpse move as viable option, and I can't think of other abilities that could benefit from all those points in the death line.

Keep the input coming... it's all valuable to me. (And if at all possible, complete sentences are appreciated ^^)

Bloodmagis is the best way to go, with out the use of DEAD BODIES, insta-caste spells and no dead body. Do you not understand that there are not always dead body that can be used. What if theres another necro? What if they were rez before you got the spell off? What if NOBODY HAS DIED, you are screwed. Deathmagic is good for PvE, but save your self the time, and the Flamming you will receive from Monks and all monk mixes. Its not worth, it unless you run PvE all the time. Sorry its True so true, i see it tried all the time and they are always dead and nobody will rez the mana sponges. Hate to have to say because thats what i wanted to do in PvP before i started and i learned real fast to change my build.

Edit: My sentences may not be that good, but my PvP is and I do know alittle of what im talking about thats the only class i have messed with. I play alot and i mean alot, so i have tried about every build with a necro and about every class combo exept Necro/Mo.

Valsalis · May 10, 2005, 07:47 AM // 07:47

I have seen N/W in PvP do very well... I hate tring to kill other necros who know what they are doing. With a N/W build you'd be best off targeting Tanks, as casters CAN show you up because you have the weaknesses of both a caster and a tank (mesmers/other necros) as you have to cast and swing your sword to be effective. So personaly i'd go with a shield and the tactics line, at least partialy. Shied tactic lines defencive skills are invaluble, not to mention the basic AL bonus of the shield itself. Although, a good weakness spell can be a great aid (curses), so putting points in 4 skills may be a viable idea.

Rion · May 10, 2005, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Corpse manipulation is merely a part of Death Magic, by the way... Same as Blood. Death doesn't = Corpse reliant.

You should be able to do your job without the corpses, and when they come along they increase your power instead of enabling it.

The Fox · May 10, 2005, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cordub

STAY AWAY FROM DEATH MAGIC, there is not enough dead bodies in PvP to make it usful and the monk is going to hate having u in the group. Your statment about BLOOD magic is wrong and just makes you sound like a retard. Rethink your your opions and try again, cant heal with blood magic thats is just complet ok im shuting up now.

Who is the one that can't spell, uses caps, and insults people? To everyone out there, who seems to be a genius, who can perfectly calculate the outcome of every battle and who knows what builds are worthless; keep yelling at us mere mortals for trying out our own creative, yet worthless builds, but for everyone else

try fathoming the idea the you might not have thought of everything, and

maybe some of your ideas are not always right. hahaha I made a build with 5 different attributes being used. Does that make it worthless? Not necessarily, and you can't really argue with me because you haven't seen it. All you can say is that your opinion is that it is "probably" worthless. Anyone see my point?

Edited: Ok, I can't spell either, but there still isn't a good reason to jump him for his comment on blood magic.
Edited again: oh yeah, even geniuses don't know everything

Kordesh · May 10, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Death magic uses corpses for spells yes, but not ALL of them. Blood magic uses corpses for a few spells too. OMGWTFBBQ stay away from blood magic! You also seem to make it sound like people NEVER die in PvP...

Creed · May 11, 2005, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Necro can be good at P v P and P v E it simply depends on how tactical you are. Death magic is mostly for PvE in honesty, but i've made it work for p v p as i'll show you..

In both these builds suicide builds.. maxing blood is the key. Max it out, (this is considering you are going pure necro, i consider no other 2nd classes remember that.)

Blood is at 12 at that point... sounds fine.. now buy a superior rune of blood magic, and add it to your armour, making your blood magic 15. Now again get another supirior rune and add it to a diffren peice of armour. Making your blood magic 18. Ok so you're hp is suffering, balance both those runes out with sup- vigor runes. (I never said this would be cheap lol). And maybe add another +1 blood rune (minor) to the last armour slot.

so right now your necro has an astonishing 19 blood magic.

Skills like renewal of blood should never leave your skill list.

If you take curses and not death magic this is how the set up works in PvP.

1. Blood renewal.
2. Dark pact.
3. Demonic flesh. (optional)
4. Vampiric gaze.
5. Vampiric touch.
6. Unholy feast.
7. Well of power. (very oprional )
8. Elite skill... Grenths balance.

Either optional skills can be replaced by Awaken the blood for an extremly risky, high damage nuking necro.

As you may see from the skills above there's alot of hp sacrifice involved.

Open out with Blood renewal, followed by demonic flesh and then a dark pact, risky.. brings you down to less than half of your max hp.. but it's worth it.

The lower a necros hp is the stronger he becomes, as i'll show.. After casting the dark pact you will have just enough time to cast grenths balance, and take well over 150hp off your enemy. At this point blood renewal kicks in and boom your hp is roughly 640 (demonic flesh) and you are fully healed. Even if you use 'normal' tactics from now on any 1 person fighting you is likly to be a wlak over.

If you do decide to use death magic.. Alot of these tactics stay the same...

except for the elite skill, you can take aura of the lich, to heavily reduce the amount of hp sacrificed, and the amount of risk taken, using demonic flesh you can also make sure your hp is'nt as low as aura of the lich would want it to be . But with that you have to rely more so on vampiric spells to increase your hp if it's lost. Awaken the blood should be taken if you choose death magic as the hp sacrifices are halfed, meaning.. if they are doubled by having awaken the blood spell running, it only breaks even, and with the +2blood magic... you are going to cause alot of damage

Well there you are folks. A necro (pure necro) build that works, ok it's risky, very risky, but it works.

People seem to think mesmer is the 'advanced' class. They're wrong, look at the combo i created for the necro, and there are hundreds of tactics like it usable from the necros skill list. Necro is simply a difficult class to use well.

I'd like to name this 'build' but in reality i'm simply showing what the necromancer can do by himself. This build... if you want to call it that is 'The necromancer'. Truth is a necros spells work best with... a necros spells, he really does'nt work well with other secoundary classes that i've seen, (for damage dealing effectivness) but i'll continue to look.

Chev of Hardass · May 11, 2005, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Well there seems to be a little inaccuracies here Tozen. Two Runes of Superior Blood Magic?

Can't be done effectively. I mean Guild Wars will not let you.
I have a Major and a Minor in right now and only one of them is affecting the rating.

Also, you will add 1 with your headpeice, but that does add up to 16. 12+3+1=16. If you need that extra two you can use awaken the blood.

Two. Well of Power is now an Elite. I think this is new, and the necros of the Guild Wars world need to uprise. I don't know why they would make a exploitation spell elite. ( I am pissed about this) So, that makes it the now undesireable Elite.

Good luck

Edit: I guess Well Of Power being elite is not new.

Endemion · May 11, 2005, 04:14 AM // 04:14

I haven't done much PvP, but what I have done, I've studied extensively so that I would be able to counter any strategies I found interesting.
I found a Death Necro amazingly useful in PvP.
Sure, there aren't many places where it's helpful, and certainly there are few times when you can get the maximum usage out of the skills, but it can be amazing if used right, and controlled correctly.

First off, there is something to be said for a battleground of corpses in Tombs. I've been in the 5-team arenas before with a floor of scattered bodies just lying there. One time, and one time only, I saw a necro taking advantage of it. At the end, it was us and them, We were yellow, they were dark blue. They held the mid ground, we held a side corner. Both of us had our priests, and we were just waiting for the catalyst. From nowhere, this N/Mo starts making Bone Fiends, Bone minions, and healing them all. He drops Blood Renewal and charges. All the other blues hold back. We counter rush, and proceed to charge the necro, hoping to take it down. Blue counter rushes us, and hides behind the minion wall. We lost. Some blamed it on our monks, some blamed it on poor target calling. No one wanted to admit that fighting 18 things (8 people and 10 minions) might have been a factor. Think what you will about damage, 10 minions together adds up quickly. As someone else in this thread stated as well, as soon as anyone fell, a CE was quickly shot off, and it hurt. The battle may have lasted 30 seconds or so. All I know is, I have learned that a minion master, if played well, and used appropriately, can easily challenge many solid builds.

As my little diatribe concludes, I'd just like to say, in the midst of the Cordubs of the world thinking that they know everything and are gods of PvP, You can suprise anyone with the right skill, tactics, and knowledge of the game. It's very easy to make any of those paths elite.

Good luck to you.

pyro05x · Aug 07, 2005, 05:55 PM // 17:55

if people never die in PvP, your team simply isn't good enough. I've found that Putrid Explosion Necros are quite useful and can kick some rear in PvP. I have yet to try it out, but from what i've seen, it's pretty cool to have one of these guys on your team.

Tellani Artini · Aug 07, 2005, 07:08 PM // 19:08

People die in PvP. You will get chances to use corpse-targetting spells and soul reaping, you just can't control when. If the people dying happen to be on your team, death magic helps to turn things the other way (see putrid, death nova, minions). If the people dying happen to be on the enemy team, death magic turns things further against them.

Death is inevitable. Are you going to take advantage of corpses, or let your enemy have them?

Possible exception: HoH holding teams.

FiveDisgruntledMonkeys · Aug 07, 2005, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Assuming you decide to go as a Blood/Curses Necro with a touch of Soul Reaping (which you seemed to be heading towards in your initial post) here are some cute combos you should try out...
Shadow of Fear + Feast of Corruption [E] = A well-known combo. Shadow of Fear creates mollases-like attack rates for a clumped-up team, and Feast of Corruption is the closest thing you'll find to a Necrotic nuke, making it a pretty popular combo. Suffering could be used in lieu of Shadow of Fear, but really one of the first things you learn as a Curse-specialist is that you shouldn't be aming for DoT. You should be aiming to inhibit, annoy, slow, and disrupt your enemies, DoT is just icing. You could bring both Suffering and Shadow of Fear, but this is risky... how often is a team clumped up like that?
Defile Flesh + Mark of Subversion + Parasitic Bond = You've just become that monk's worst nightmare. Note that Parasitic Bond is meant to be 'spam', making hex-removal a headache. While I'll admit that Mark of Subversion's uses are limited, it is one of the Necro's best skills for helping his team tear down an enemy monk.
Enfeeble + Faintheartedness = Simple but effective. For a scant 15 energy and a couple seconds of casting time that warrior is about as dangerous as a newborn kitten. Throw in Soul Siphon and you can probably go toe-to-toe with the chump and come out on top.
Soul Siphon + Parasitic Bond = When things are looking grim, this duo makes for some wise spammage. People often criticize Necros for relying on DoT, but as I said before, DoT is just icing. The real strength of these skills lies in the healing they do for you. The regeneration for Soul Siphon stacks. If you cast it on one target, you have +3 regeneration. But cast it on two, you have +6. Cast it on three, +9. Suddenly, your Necro can practically tank.
Desecrate Enchantments + Rend Enchantments = Rips apart Wa/Mos like a hot knife through butter. One of the Necro's greatest strengths is their enchantment removal capabilities, which can win you a niche in any good PvP group if you know what you're doing.
That's just a taste to get you started.
Some general tips: stay out of range, and keep your head down. You're strongest when you're subtle and unnoticed. A targetted Necro is a dead Necro.
Spread the pain. It's better to sprinkle hexes over the entire team than to slam a single target with redundant hexes.
All the above combos are offensive combos. Keep in mind that Necros make for some of the best support characters in the game.
Use your secondary to its fullest potential. Nothing makes you feel like more of a Curse-master than stealing another Necro's favorite spell with Inspired Hex, or creating a simulation of super-lag by dumping Water hexes and attack-rate-slowing hexes on a single target.
Mix in conditions with your hexes. Most people bring condition-removal. Some bring hex-removal. Few bring both.
Just have fun with it.
Good luck and happy soul-eating.

Skyro · Aug 08, 2005, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Do you guys realize this post is like 2 months old? Why people dig posts out from the grave I'll never know.

Arturo02 · Aug 08, 2005, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyro

Do you guys realize this post is like 2 months old? Why people dig posts out from the grave I'll never know.

but then someone will post a new thread on a subject discussed a few months ago and everyone will reply with "use the search button!"