Curse

Sammiel · Aug 12, 2005, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

Hex Breaker is in domination for mesmers. One of the best anti-hex spells in the game since it's a 2 shot back-to-back deal.

And its a one point wonder. Its instant cast, low cost, and requires basically 0 points in Domination to be fairly effective.

Rey Lentless · Aug 13, 2005, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Warriors are more dependent on stances than any other class by far. You can't have hex breaker on them, sorry.

I really like the strength line skills for the most part. The attacks, and elites (other than flourish) are all useful. Griffin's could use a slight boost. I will survive, I will avenge you, and shield bash are utter crap. Warrior's cunning needs a lower recharge.

I think the stength passive bonus should probably be improved a bit, but not too much. While I think r/w's are crap, we don't want to distance the difference between a primary warr and secondary warr too much. At least now it can still be considered.

I think armor penetration on a warrior is rather stupid anyway. It shouldn't be more effective against other warriors. It should give some kind of other bonus, something that isn't least effective against things warriors should actually be attacking. It's fine for air eles to have 25% mods, since that line is anti warrior in a lot of ways already and it fits. For warriors, armor penetration doesn't make sense. Should just be a flat -armor like the way weaken armor works. That way it would still be as useful against things warriors should actually be targetting. I'd probably say like a 0.75 per stat point, and have it effect every hit.

Calibretto_9 · Aug 13, 2005, 10:00 PM // 22:00

JackOften, tipping the hat to you man. I haven't done the exact math yet, but I'm glad that you did. I've long suspected that strength was nowhere near as good as it sounds,and your math more than proves it.

rayman2 · Aug 13, 2005, 10:07 PM // 22:07

i started w/Ele but hi is at the moment W/MO for the soloing end farming but 1 of the best W skills is bonetis defence or somting if you do just 4 points in tactiks you can get all your energy back in e few seconds en cast some spells so when you are W/Ele you can easly cast eartqeke 2tims when you knock them down or some other skills 2do e lot of DMG in e chort time

sry for the stupid engels me engels sucks

Meimei · Aug 14, 2005, 04:43 AM // 04:43

Nothing is wrong with warrior, my warrior is casters/rangers destoryer and you guys just suck being a warrior. Most of the problem from u guys i've seen are being neg condition, getting block/evade, and hex and you guys are too suck to counter these and whine like a baby.

Jake · Aug 14, 2005, 06:17 AM // 06:17

yeah uh.. okay... wow man your warrior is amazing, that's great.

Anyway at the very least I think griffon's sweep and berserker's stance should be brought back up to par. Warrior's cunning maybe...

Racthoh · Aug 14, 2005, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Well the warrior is really made by his/her second profession.

With the dreaded monk secondary, a sensible warrior will bring in hex/ailment removers (or just one depending on space). However, too few do this and as a whole the w/mo society has been branded as incompotent and placed in quarantine like they have some sort of stupid gene that can spread.

A w/n can do all kinds of things. Plague touch is fun, Rigor Morties is in a way better than warrior's cunning. Even with no points, it lasts for 8 seconds as opposed to warrior's cunning at 5.

W/me can combine Fear Me with all kinds of goodies from the mesmer profession to shut down monks without landing many blows.

We all already know what a w/e with a hammer is capable off, and every w/r seems to enjoy Tiger's Fury and Apply Poison.

Reiden Argrock · Aug 14, 2005, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Just a few points, then I'll let you get back to your worthless discussion.

Strength is percentage, meaning that at 10 strength you have 10% armor penetration, that does not equal out to +.5 dmg for each point in strength, it would be an exponential equation, and each point in strength would add a little more dmg than the previous point added.

Secondly, whoever said that warrior's are the farmers... check again buddy, monks are the farmers, their are very few people who are capable of farming without mo/x or x/mo while not impossible, being part monk, will always make farming more effective, it's just the way of the game.

Thirdly, your secondary class IS very important, if it wasn't we would all be single class chars, and a-net would never of made the duel class's possible, seems to me all your problems and complaints could be solved by utilizing your duel class possibilities.

Thats all for me, enjoy.

Rey Lentless · Aug 14, 2005, 09:53 AM // 09:53

I farm better with my warr than my monk.

The math in this thread isn't real accurate though, I'll agree with that. I think it's pretty much a cop out to say that everything's balanced because of access to a secondary though.

I think warriors are fine overall, but like any profession (you could have 6 threads), there are things to improve with each profession. We should have balance towards having crap skills improved, if they are indeed crap.. and the strength line does have several of them. And just from a common sense standpoint, the strength passive doesn't make sense as I mentioned. Warriors aren't there to counter other warriors generally. Why have their primary give the biggest damage bonus against other warriors? Makes no sense. It's fine to have skills thrown in with armor penetration, but the whole primary shouldn't be based around a counter that doesn't actually play out in game.

Bleidd · Aug 14, 2005, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Strength-based skills aside...

I was under the impression (from these boards) a perfect Sundering Hilt - +10% armour penetration - doesn't amount to much of an increase in damage over time. So how much of an increase is say, 10 Strength - +10% armour penetration- in the long run? I'm aware of the fact the Strength armour penetration only applies to attack skills and not regular attacks, and the best Sundering Hilt has a 10% chance to proc.

Jake · Aug 14, 2005, 10:38 AM // 10:38

Okay wow, for all of you saying use your secondary profession to cover weaknesses, NO SHIT. This thread is not a whine about warriors being shitty or how I can't overcome the simplest shit; it's about skills that were given to warrior's yet in their current state, they aren't really fit for the job. The only reason I even bother mentioning things like warrior's requiring more work to perform is because with these skills made usable, the average warrior SHOULD beable to handle current situations dealing with them being "countered" better. The major focus of course would be wards against melee and aegis/guardian, I DON'T CARE ABOUT HEXES OR CONDITIONS.

With a decent griffon's sweep, it will be a great use of a skill slot that only a primary warrior can really make use out of which will give warrior's a solid option against evasion, i.e. ward against melee. To all of you preaching about using your secondary to cover your weakness, sorry but rigor mortis being the only option from your secondary to cover this "weakness" isn't really gonna cut it. Griffon's sweep was put in the game for warrior's to combat evasion obviously. With a decent griffon's sweep you have a skill that can be used as a minor damage booster and if a ward against melee happens to be put down, have a great skill to combat it. In it's current state it gives a pathetic damage bonus without being evaded and can be blocked. So anytime you're against a person who does not have any form of evasion, this skill is absolutely worthless, especially against a person with guardian/aegis on them, doesn't even pierce the block.

I don't feel like talking about the other skills I mentioned since I already stated why I feel they should be buffed a bit. These are all basically skills that no build really makes use of these days because they don't give results simple and plain. They are basically near borderline but just need that little boost to make them worth their skill slot. What I am trying to say with my post is if these skills were given a minor buff, they would obviously start seeing themselves put in more warrior builds and in turn help warriors a bit against their major counters which the skills were supposed to help them combat in the first place but aren't.

It's really like the majority just reads the first 2 paragraphs, quits reading and just posts a worthless derailing reply. Seriously... try reading and comprehending the whole post before posting a reply or just don't reply at all.

Kampfkeks · Aug 14, 2005, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake

It's really like the majority just reads the first 2 paragraphs, quits reading and just posts a worthless derailing reply. Seriously... try reading and comprehending the whole post before posting a reply or just don't reply at all.

Maybe you should go and try the same my friend

Many a two have stated that some skills are just useless (and agree with you *gasp*), while others stated they don't need improvement. It is just alike with any other profession on top of that (yes i read the thread).

About the skills, well for some of yours i actually have a use and tend to use them now and then (for example Berserker Stance, its a great opener for some more adrenaline heavy builds. The added Adrenaline gain and the higher hit rate really make a difference).

About the Attributes. Go on, think Strength is inferior. I will take on your 0 Strength Warrior anytime and actually win in 8 out of 10 battles. Your calculation about the added damage is inaccurate at least. The added damage the armor penetration gives tends to scale with the armor of your target. Seriously, i swear i'm gonna die from laughing the next time a warrior starts hitting me for measly 0-3 damage points just because he thinks Strength and Armor Penetration is for "noobs". And when that tactic reliant warrior throws on a stance, Wild Blow or Warriors Cunning. Sure thing they have a long recharge but i could just echo (mesmer) those and spam them more often. Yes sorry, i actually brought in another profession. Yes i do agree some skills are crap on their own but really shine with a little power up from somewhere else. When a necro starts spamming me with disease and stuff... what is so bad about "I will survive!"? It helps keeping me alive and gives the teams monk some time.

Sorry to disappoint you, every skill has its uses and some get really evil with a little backup from your secondary (something you refuse to see, Threadstarter). Boosting them in the first place will simply make them godly and overpowered when someone then combines them with something from their secondary.

Those skills most people refer to as inferior really start to shine when you start to get more and more into the game and start to think more complex about your builds. Implementing more and more means to accompany you. You really shouldn't refuse that and kick it out of the discussion as that... yes that makes some skills really weak and inferior. But by kicking those out of the discussion, you refuse to see those skills are allready really strong in conjunction with a secondary and would become outright overpowered when boosted by just looking at the primary profession.

/edit:
And about a warrior requiring more work to put into some use than other classes. It is just nonsense, and you know that too. How many real bad monks have you seen? It is awfully hard to make a monk who is capable of staying alive when constantly getting hit. It is awfully hard to put a mesmer into good use without being a sitting duck 20 of 40 seconds due to low energy or some selfblock due to Blackout at the wrong time. It is awfully hard to put a ranger into good use. Most of their skills actually require a lot of planning aforehead. It is awfully hard to put a necromancer into a good use. Same as with the rangers, you really need to plan what you are doing there.

Jake · Aug 14, 2005, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote: