Curse

Jake · Aug 12, 2005, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Warrior's aren't weak by any means... but I think it's safe to say they require way too much work to make effective.. I don't know.. some may like this but I think there's just some garbage in the warrior skillset that needs tweaking.

First of all, the Strength primary attribute is perhaps the worst out of all the professions. Every profession's primary attribute has a MAJOR impact on their build.. strength... can be neglected for the most part. The benefits just aren't enough.. it boosts your dps by a piddly amount. I suggest that strength benefits change. Elite bosses in PVE have an innate resistance that makes hexes and conditions last something like half? duration. One possibility would be to make more points in strength reduce hex/condition durations by a certain %, the % itself could be debated but that would be much more worthwhile than the current state imo. Either that or something simple such as armor penetration on all attacks including regular hits or a boost instead of doing a measly 1% penetration per point. Something needs to be done though about strength.. it's just worthless in it's current state.

There's some skills that could be getting more use but aren't because they just don't give the desired results for their use. Mostly strength skills that should be better considering they are unique to the warrior primaries. I saw these skills in some of their previous incarnations and wished they were still the same, I think they were hella overnerfed.

Griffon's Sweep should be buffed a bit to do +1-16 damage instead of +1-8 on hit and have the cannot be blocked tag added to it to be similar to swift chop/seeking blade.

Warrior's Cunning needs help. There's lots of things that can be done to help it out but right now it just doesn't last long enough, has too large of a recast time, and costs too much energy. It shouldn't be buffed to the point where irresistable blow/swift chop/seeking blade/griffons sweep should be worthless, but in it's current state it's not good enough to warrant a skill slot.

Berserker's stance should have the ends if you use a skill tag removed/changed to non-attack skill a la tiger's fury or something, the recast time on it is already bad enough and the 20% adrenaline gain is really negligable so it wouldn't be overpowered by any means, it would just actually have a use. It is a strength based skill after all and warrior primaries DESERVE a strong attack speed boost, having to go W/R for tiger's fury is pathetic. Right now I don't see anyone packing this skill it's too limited. Smart frenzy use with a cancel stance will still have an advantage in the fact that they can basically be near permanently boosted whereas berserker stancers would have that ~20 second downtime so I don't see it being overpowered at all. It would also make your actions less obvious. Right now if someone sees a W/notR attacking fast they'll probably be like "He's frenzying!!" but with berserkers stance actually being useful things aren't so obvious anymore since there's more options.

This one is a little iffy and maybe shouldn't even be mentioned but I will anyways. Battle rage should have either the ends if you use any non-attack skills or when battle rage ends you lose all adrenaline tag removed, only one not both. Right now it's just not good, everytime I've tried to ask someone for a good BR build that gives great damage output they fail to deliver. I've tried numerous builds trying to make use of BR because it's a fun skill to use.. but it's just not effective to me. You restrict yourself so much by using this and in result, don't even get better damage output than a standard weapon elite build. Maybe switch the movement speed boost portion to a 33% attack speed increase would help it become a good elite. That's a pretty major restriction in addition to the lose all adren/ends if any non-attack skill stuff, you can't increase your attack speed due to it being a stance, shit you can't even use I will avenge you! without ending the stance either. Before someone comes in bashing me that I don't know what I'm talking about and they got an awesome BR build, by all means, I'm always open for debate, post your BR build and if it's amazing I'll give it the recognition it deserves and shut my mouth. I have yet to see it though, and all the unique builds I've tried based around BR have failed to keep up.

Anyone who wishes to add a skill they think needs changing then by all means post it. I think some buffs to a few if not all of these skills will help warriors aid their team better and combat the easy counters that exist that require major teamwork or a MAJOR modification to your build to combat. I don't think warriors will become overpowered with this, just "up to par" and more respected by the common player even though advanced players probably have strong builds that warriors play a major role in in their current state.

QuixotesGhost · Aug 12, 2005, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake

First of all, the Strength primary attribute is perhaps the worst out of all the professions. Every profession's primary attribute has a MAJOR impact on their build.. strength... can be neglected for the most part. The benefits just aren't enough.. it boosts your dps by a piddly amount. I suggest that strength benefits change. Elite bosses in PVE have an innate resistance that makes hexes and conditions last something like half? duration. One possibility would be to make more points in strength reduce hex/condition durations by a certain %, the % itself could be debated but that would be much more worthwhile than the current state imo. Either that or something simple such as armor penetration on all attacks including regular hits or a boost instead of doing a measly 1% penetration per point. Something needs to be done though about strength.. it's just worthless in it's current state.

If I'm not mistaken strength has the most associated skills of any primary attribute in the game. That's why the passive benefit is weaker than other primary attributes, becuase you get access to all those skills instead.

Likewise Warriors having hex and condition removal... just doesn't make sense from an RP standpoint. I don't understand why this issue keeps coming up when warriors can take care of this so easily with the right secondary.

Yukito Kunisaki · Aug 12, 2005, 02:32 AM // 02:32

You seem to be forgetting something very important.

The most important aspect of GW.

Warriors aren't pure class. [if they are, then yes, they suck] However their 2ndary determines how devastating they will become.

The Strength attribute has been balanced alongside rangers since the WPE and the BWEs. It USED to be 2% added armor penetration for EVERY ATTACK AND SKILL. Now you say it's not much? At just 10 strength, you're doing ~20% more dmg with everything. That's not overpowered you say? After just 3 swings you've done 60% more damage then one without strength. Warriors do a LOT of swinging so 5 swings means you've done 100% more dmg. Not much you say? Imagine doing skills during those 5 swings that boost your damage that much more? Too powerful it was.

Now it's 1% more armor penetration only for attack skills. That's bad you say? Not to my W/N who uses Weaken Armor to hit harder on every single swing... ^_^

Use your secondary to CANCEL OUT your character's weakness, not complain about a single class's skill listing.

QuixotesGhost · Aug 12, 2005, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Use your secondary to CANCEL OUT your character's weakness, not complain about a single class's skill listing.

Oh, what drives me crazy is that over 50% of warriors are Warrior/Monk then come on here a complain that there needs to be a warrior anti-hex/ anti-condition skill. HELLO! You already have it and you still don't take it. Why would making it a warrior skill suddenly make a slot in your skill bar open up magically?

Yukito Kunisaki · Aug 12, 2005, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuixotesGhost

Oh, what drives me crazy is that over 50% of warriors are Warrior/Monk then come on here a complain that there needs to be a warrior anti-hex/ anti-condition skill. HELLO! You already have it and you still don't take it. Why would making it a warrior skill suddenly make a slot in your skill bar open up magically?

Amen...

Jake · Aug 12, 2005, 03:24 AM // 03:24

eh.. the suggestion was to make strength reduce the duration of them... there's no removal involved at all. If you go solo some high level elite boss use a hex on him you'll see what I'm talking about.

It was just a suggestion for change, right now strength is garbage. Expertise and Divine Favor both have around the same amount of skills and elites as strength, yet provide much better benefit.

Don't bring the use your secondary to cancel out your weakness argument here, the whole point of this is there's TOO MANY potential weaknesses for a warrior to overcome therefore he has to rely on his teammates HEAVILY to perform well. If you think otherwise, then do explain, that's all there is to it. This isn't anything major here, it's just a series of minor changes, it's not like I'm saying warriors suck and are worthless, they are far from it.

Van the Warrior · Aug 12, 2005, 03:31 AM // 03:31

hex breaker..........costs 5 energy and is an instant + its a freakin stance.....so shoo shoo go use it

QuixotesGhost · Aug 12, 2005, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake

It was just a suggestion for change, right now strength is garbage. Expertise and Divine Favor both have around the same amount of skills and elites as strength, yet provide much better benefit.

As far as primary attrs go:

Strength has 19 related skills
Divine Favor has 13
Expertise has 10
Energy Storage has 3
Fast Casting has 1
Soul Reaping has 0

Quote:

Don't bring the use your secondary to cancel out your weakness argument here, the whole point of this is there's TOO MANY potential weaknesses for a warrior to overcome therefore he has to rely on his teammates HEAVILY to perform well. If you think otherwise, then do explain, that's all there is to it. This isn't anything major here, it's just a series of minor changes, it's not like I'm saying warriors suck and are worthless, they are far from it.

My Domination Mesmer can only create "windows of oppertunity". I rely HEAVILY on my teammates to take advantage of them becuase I can't deal any real damage. I particularly rely on my teams warrior(s) becuase you can never tell when an elementalist is going to be sitting there recharging his batteries. I know a warrior will always be good to go as soon as I throw on a backfire or hit something important with diversion. Do I see a problem with this? No, not really.

Jake · Aug 12, 2005, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Actually thanks for pointing that out because that's basically the main reason I posted this, strength based skills need help.

Yes warriors are good damage output I never denied that that's not the point of the post, of course they have their uses, reread the post that's not the intent.

Jake · Aug 12, 2005, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van the Warrior

hex breaker..........costs 5 energy and is an instant + its a freakin stance.....so shoo shoo go use it

I've used it, being a stance is not really a good thing for a warrior but you can work around it, DAMN IT I didn't make this post to whine about hexes, I could give 2 shits about the hexes, the skills are more important.

Tuna · Aug 12, 2005, 04:05 AM // 04:05

There is a good reason for strength being the way it is. It was higher before (mid-early betas i think) and it was a problem. I think warriors are really just fine the way they are except for some skill distribution.

Racthoh · Aug 12, 2005, 05:30 AM // 05:30

If Battle Rage had 33% increased attack speed, you would cry to my Zealot's Fire/Battle Rage build.

I think some of the skills may be in the wrong area. Warrior's Cunning? In what way does being physically stronger make me mentally a better warrior? Shield Bash should be an attack since it is highly conditional. Considering 1/6th of the classes have weapons designed for them that strike in melee, this skill is kinda useless. And again, it feels like a tactics skill since it is more defensive than offensive. Protector's Strike, well the name implies where is should be. You're taking a tactical advantage on your opponent.

I don't think it should be 1% armour pentration for attack skills only. That just feels and sounds weak. Even if it was 1% all the time that tree has no skills that appeal to me whatsoever. Warrior's Cunning drastic cool down time isn't enough time to kill anything alone. Berserker's Stance ending on use of a skill which feels stupid because you'll build up enough adrenaline on a level 0 Berserker's to use a 10 adrenaline skill.

And considering it is called Strength, you'd think it would have the strongest hitting attack skill in the game. But sadly enough, strength has ZERO elite attack skills. Power Attack is the only real decent attack skill strength has to offer that doesn't rely entirely on the situation.

Jake · Aug 12, 2005, 06:46 AM // 06:46

I forgot about another skill that needs some tweaking...

I will survive!

wtf? This skill is so bad it's not even funny. It needs to either give scalable regen based on strength like I will avenge you! up to like 5-7 or so per condition not a pitiful 3, a lower recast timer, work with hexes too. Something along those lines pick and choose a couple because I don't think only 1 of those changes will help it be usable, it's just pathetic in its current incarnation that's for sure.

Eonwe · Aug 12, 2005, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake

I forgot about another skill that needs some tweaking...

I will survive!

wtf? This skill is so bad it's not even funny. It needs to either give scalable regen based on strength like I will avenge you! up to like 5-7 or so per condition not a pitiful 3, a lower recast timer, work with hexes too. Something along those lines pick and choose a couple because I don't think only 1 of those changes will help it be usable, it's just pathetic in its current incarnation that's for sure.

There are many skills, not just from the warrior profession, that are next to useless.

Jake · Aug 12, 2005, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

There are many skills, not just from the warrior profession, that are next to useless.

Yeah that's true, I'm sure there's proponents of other professions that are fighting for some changes too though... Warrior's are sorta the underdog right now in pvp it seems even though I'm sure people make good use of them, but the average player can't really at the moment and that playerbase is very important to the game imo.

JackOften · Aug 12, 2005, 07:07 AM // 07:07

The math on the str boost is simple, and often overestimated. Lets assume you have an AL60 target - thats your average caster. With a strength of 0, this is unmodified - with a strength of 10, that becomes AL 54, or a 7.5% damage boost (not 20% like the mathematically challenged Yukito phantasizes).

Now, lets say you've got a a 20/20 mod and customized hammer average 45 damage a hit (not dps, which is 22.5) - thats with a 20% crit chance already factored in FYI. This 45 damage hit gets another +15 from whatever skill you're using - so we can say in this perfect scenario each Str-applied hit (which is NOT every hit unless you're permanently spamming skills) is doing 60 damage before str and an average of 64.5 (65 if you're lucky).

In other words, every attack skill gets tops +0.5 dmg per level in strength. So really, Str is only worthwhile if you want the skills in the tree.

JackOften · Aug 12, 2005, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van the Warrior

hex breaker..........costs 5 energy and is an instant + its a freakin stance.....so shoo shoo go use it

Or use a lieutenants helm if all you care about is reduced hex duration

Kai Nui · Aug 12, 2005, 07:12 AM // 07:12

You've obviously never played with another class if you're saying warrior needs what you're saying it does. Mesmers are probably the most hard to use, and even if you aren't extremely skilled, a novice warrior can slap it to death in no time. Warrior is probably the strongest class with elementalist, I mean when's the last time you heard of a mesmer farming? DUH, every class has it's weaknesses and can help make up for them with a second profession, so I think warrior should stay the way it is or go down in grade because it is already too powerful for it's own good. You are some kinda stupid because your post was ridiculous. Warriors have it good, and if you're complaining that you have one and would rather have a mesmer, you are a true noob with no hope. =/

trancejeremy · Aug 12, 2005, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Hex breaker? What class is that for?

As someone who has been playing a Warrior character, I've been having a lot of trouble with hexes. Conditions, too. "I will survive" (which I finally got after getting to the Crystal Desert) sort of helps with that, but it takes way too long to recharge.

Aug 12, 2005, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Hex Breaker is in domination for mesmers. One of the best anti-hex spells in the game since it's a 2 shot back-to-back deal.