Curse

funbun · May 31, 2005, 07:32 PM // 19:32

I use 2 -1 regen skill in my current build. Th key is to only use them when neccissary. Only use them in battle. It also depends of whether is compliments your current build.

For me Rertibution and Balthazarrs Spirit work well. Balthazar's Apirit gives me energy when attacked and Rretribution returns 33%dmg when attacked. This plus 5 energy spell keep my energy going. I rarely deplete my energy when I manage it right.

Canook · May 31, 2005, 07:40 PM // 19:40

monks are a great class, and i really like and appreciate the ones that heal and do their job...but i dont solely rely on the monks, i always have a self-healing skill on me. they cant do everything...its when people think the monks can do constant healing that a group loses...

Xavz · May 31, 2005, 08:06 PM // 20:06

I have been known to bail out on a horrible PuG as well. It's not worth my time to wait for Rambo to destroy the party.

Mending is 3 pips at 12 healing, correct? It costs 1 regen (20 energy/min) and heals for 360 health over that time - that's an efficiency of 18 health per mana. Compare that to Orison - 67 health + the DF Bonus (38) for a total of 105 healing for 5 mana - that's 21 health per mana. Orison is not only more energy efficient, it also is available on command. I don't see the reason to carry Mending in a skill bar. I'm about as likely to use it as I am to use Holy Wrath.

Santosh · May 31, 2005, 08:55 PM // 20:55

If everyone in the group just hits the same target, monks wouldn't need to worry about losing energy. It's when everyone in the groups picks out their own target to kill that is the problem.

funbun · May 31, 2005, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santosh

If everyone in the group just hits the same target, monks wouldn't need to worry about losing energy. It's when everyone in the groups picks out their own target to kill that is the problem.

GREAT point. Even when you call targets people still ignore them. Also, When group 3 people out of the group calls a target it does no good.

I gues it come down to the same thing. If your group sucks you will die!

WillOrWil · May 31, 2005, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

But as a Monk you should be finishing most battles at around half energy anyway.

Wait... You mean you actually have found groups that don't do the constant battle thing? You know...while the main group is fighting one person rushes ahead and brings back another load of enemies.

Yes I use signet of devotion.

Most of my battles end with me rez'ing spell casters who wanted to tank. (I love being in the fire islands...if they want to tank, then I really do want to watch them burn! LOL) Therefore my energy is always at zero because I use Rebirth (which comes in very handy at times). Every once in awhile I will end a battle around 50% or so. But most of the time that is an impossibility as I do try and stick with any PUG for as long as possible to give them a (most of the time a very undeserving) chance.

Neo-LD · May 31, 2005, 10:08 PM // 22:08

This is true. As a monk most of my time is spent keeping everyone alive. Any damage that I produce usually comes passivley from zealots fire. So the monks rely on their team to be smart and finish the job quickly, BEFORE the monks energy runs out. Good monks can last a fairly long time (those like me who pack three 5 mana heals and a 0 mana one) but hey we are all human.

Btw Ensign I agree with what you said almost 100%. I toss out orisons in between battles if I know I will regen to full by the next battle anywways. Mana comes back quicker than HP anyways.

WillOrWil · May 31, 2005, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santosh

A very nice thread this is. Great insight and information. Good job Will.

Thanks so much, Santosh! I'm hoping after reading enough and learning more it will actually get me to actually want to play my monk character again. I honestly think I have such bad luck because of the only times I have to play GW. That is when all of the kids are out of school and before their bed times. Ugh... Having cooperative missions interrupted for a "Naked Dance Party" 50% of the time is just... Ugh...

EinValentine · May 31, 2005, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Re: Signet of Devotion

I used it for a while and then ditched it. I found the cast time was simply prohibitive when the fur really started flying. The only time I'm willing to devote 2 full seconds to casting a healing spell is if I'm casting Heal Party. Otherwise I want that spell cast yesterday. SoD may be free but it's slow, and at the speed health bars drop in the Fissure, I can't afford that wait.

But I also always run with either Offering of Blood or Peace and Harmony in my build so I am usually ok for energy.

Re: Mending

Mending can be situationally very useful. It really shines in any situation where you have to babysit an NPC, particularly an NPC that doesn't show up in your party window. I have more than enough to contend with just tracking a fight without having to switch targets around just so I can see an NPC's health. I'll slap Mending on them and it makes it that much more likely that they'll survive the battle without me having to keep them continually targeted.

In general it is useful in any situation where you want healing happening without your having to devote actions to the effort, thus freeing you to attend to whatever else you need to be handling.

Santosh · May 31, 2005, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillOrWil

Thanks so much, Santosh! I'm hoping after reading enough and learning more it will actually get me to actually want to play my monk character again. I honestly think I have such bad luck because of the only times I have to play GW. That is when all of the kids are out of school and before their bed times. Ugh... Having cooperative missions interrupted for a "Naked Dance Party" 50% of the time is just... Ugh...

Naked dance parties are actually fun. Lol. Can't be too serious with this game sometimes. Granted in higher levels (post ascension) you need to put a game face on, but ya still gotta have some fun whether you succeed or fail a mission.

Ensign · Jun 01, 2005, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xavz

Mending is 3 pips at 12 healing, correct?

It's 3 pips at 8 healing, 4 pips at 13. It's a great skill up until Gates of Kryta or so, after which its utility drops off quickly. Early on it's both efficient in terms of healing per energy, and fast acting as you don't have to waste time healing, but later on the utility drops off hard - 3 pips of regen just can't keep up with the damage being dished out.

But if you haven't ventured far past Lion's Arch, Mending is the sixth god.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillOrWil

Wait... You mean you actually have found groups that don't do the constant battle thing?

I haven't seen a group that was that bad, no - usually they'll at least finish off the battle at hand before sprinting off to the next one. If people did start running off before the battle even ends, well, I'm not going to stay in that pug long.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillOrWil

Most of my battles end with me rez'ing spell casters who wanted to tank.

Don't res them. Don't res Rambo. I'm serious, every mission in the game is perfectly doable down a man. Casters that waste all your energy, Rambos who run ahead and aggro everything before people are ready are actively hurting your chances of winning. So let 'em rot. Worst case scenario? Someone else decides to res him, in which case you're left with beautiful energy. Best case? He leaves the game in a fit of profanity.

I completed both the first and second fire islands missions this way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EinValentine

I used it for a while and then ditched it. I found the cast time was simply prohibitive when the fur really started flying.

At times damage is spiking hard and you don't have time for Signet of Devotion, I agree completely. But if times like that stay for more than a few seconds you're going to be at 0 energy quickly and wishing for Signet.

I used to dislike Signet of Devotion for the same reason - it takes too long to cast - until I started to get good at skill cancelling. Hitting escape while using a skill will stop that action instantly, with no penalty besides the time and energy invested so far. So for Signet, with a 0 energy cost, you lose nothing by sitting in its casting animation.

So the general rule for using Signet of Devotion is that if someone isn't in desperate need of a heal right now, and you can deliver right now, you cast Signet. If half a second later someone needs that fast heal you just cancel and cast the heal. But a lot of the time you'll get a bit over halfway through the cast before they need that heal, and then the Signet will finish healing right around the time a normal, fast heal would have gone off. Use Signet on people at full health, on someone you've just finished healing, or just keep it running pretty much whenever you have a chance. It really doesn't cost you more than the skill slot it takes.

Well, it takes a lot more attention to use properly than I like to pay sometimes, but those are the breaks, eh?

Peace,
-CxE

Xavz · Jun 01, 2005, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Signet of Devotion is an odd skill, but it's saved my ass many a time. When I run out of energy in PvP or PvE, I'm glad it's on my bar, not to mention it helps with energy management nearly as well as any energy management skills do.

EinValentine · Jun 01, 2005, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Well, it takes a lot more attention to use properly than I like to pay sometimes, but those are the breaks, eh?

You must have have much better hand/eye than I do. I'm not being sarcastic - my reaction speed is slower than I'd like. Personally, I prefer Heal Other over Signet of Devotion, even with its fairly hefty (for a Monk spell) 10 cost. If I had more slots I'd love to keep Signet around, but 8 is a tight squeeze.

The setup I used through much of the late game and in the UW/Fissure was the following:

Orison of Healing, Heal Other, Healing Breeze, Heal Party, Healing Seed, Well of Blood, Offering of Blood, Rebirth

If there is a Necro who uses Well of Blood/Power around I'll sub out Well of Blood for Ritual of Blood instead and use that on the other Monk. No sense having two people using Wells, and I don't know any Monks that don't like +3 energy regen.

I wouldn't at all advocate this build for PvP since I suspect it would probably suck mightily as it is not set up to deal with the massive damage spikes that seem to be in vogue, but it worked out well in PvE for me. I relied on the judicious application of fairly costly effects (Well of Blood, Healing Seed, Heal Party at 15 cost and Breeze and Other at 10 cost) over trying to micromanage less costly abilities.

Blood Magic makes a huge difference to this build though. Getting a Well of Blood in play can save you a huge amount of energy if your party takes advantage of it as it slows or stops most attrition based abilities, and Offering of Blood is just lovely stuff. I did use Signet of Devotion before I got Offering. Offering is what really allows this build to work. By the numbers you might get more energy over time with Peace and Harmony, but Offering is a energy boost all at once when you need it, and I find that invaluable.

I found this build paired very well with Protection based Monks, and/or Healing Monks who focused more on individually targeted healing.

These days I'm set up with all Protection and Divine Favor and running large numbers of Life Bonds. I'm not sure what I think of that yet, I'm still fiddling with the build, but it certainly seemed to work well last night. Major headache though, since I effectively have negative energy regen most of the time and can only offset it with Blessed Signet. I'd LOVE to have Signet of Devotion for this but I can't think what I'd drop for it. Well, we shall see what I think after a few more nights in the Fissure.

Kaylee Ann · Jun 01, 2005, 05:13 AM // 05:13

I play a mesmer a lot in PvP. Personally, I think monks can have all the god complexes they want. It isn't going to save them from little ole me =)

pohtato · Jun 01, 2005, 06:12 AM // 06:12

I had ppl telling me "My Caring Meter is 1 of 43" when i told them "My energy is 1 of 43" after a battle to signal to my team that i was low on energy and needed recharge. That bugger was a warrior and charged straight into the next battle, needless to say i didn't heal him as much and he died. I told him "My Caring Meter and my energy is 0 of 43 when u died"........

sandstorm87 · Jun 01, 2005, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylee Ann

I play a mesmer a lot in PvP. Personally, I think monks can have all the god complexes they want. It isn't going to save them from little ole me =)

im a monk and i can beat you easily

O and for the low energy problem. Just use low energy skills, word of healing, signet of devotion, dwayna's kiss, orison of healing and healing breeze if necisary.
after you used one of these youve already gained 4/5 energy so you can use another skill!

funbun · Jun 01, 2005, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandstorm87

im a monk and i can beat you easily.

How. In PvP everytime I face up against a Mesmer I get killed. I'm a smite monk at that!

Yukito Kunisaki · Jun 01, 2005, 12:07 PM // 12:07

I try to find balance on the battle field. The monks especially. I like watching 'stupid' teammates die due to wandering off or not waiting but there is one place I've learned full well that waiting is the difference between winning and losing. Hall of Heroes.

I know that waiting for the monk to recharge is important but those who've partied with me know that my group as a whole deal with wild frenzied attacking with as little intervals as possible. Why? The sooner we attack, the less chance the enemy monks have of getting their energy back. I normally give about 10s. tops for our monks and casters to get their energy back. 10s. of 4 pips regen [which can be increased with the right teammate skills] should be enough to charge then enemy and be well ahead of them. Some call it ganking, but I for one am against camping back and waiting till the end of 2 teams duking. I'd rather dive right in there and smash both then wait it out.

I'm also sure to be nice to the monk should the team die. Though I hate to say it, some of my guildmates put little faith in a monk that won't heal them asap. I know monks can't heal all the time, every time. However that's why a self-heal is NOT THAT BAD. You only need one. Thankfully, every class has a decent self-healing skill and since u play 2 classes all the time [we hope] there's sure to be that one skill that jumps your hp just enough to make life easier.

Recently, I've introduced some guildmates to the beauty that is Victory is Mine! and they've learned to fall in love with this elite just as much as I have. They've gone so far as to actually drop some strength to invest into tactics. With my build, I gain 49hp per condition. PER CONDITION!!! I always make sure the enemy piles on about 4 or so before I use it and now that my guildmates have converted into condition engines themselves, we can almost keep ourselves alive about 75% of the time. 15s. cool down is great but even warriors need a monks helping hand boost.

fleeb · Jun 01, 2005, 12:47 PM // 12:47

I have, on too many occasions, pointed out that my energy was 0 of [whatever], only to get the response "My Health is [maxed]". Or "There's enough of us to handle it." Oh, well, sorry I joined up. I'll just sit over here and eat some jerky or something. Have a nice adventure.

Nothing comes closer to making me quit the group than seeing that.

There was another situation that rather annoyed me... the adventure had just started, but two team members had not yet logged in (slow computers, I suppose). I was waiting on them, when two of the existing party members ran off to kill something without me. I just waited.

"MONK!"

"HEAL!"

I allowed that pair to get nervous, then saved their sorry buns. After which I explained that I was still waiting for the rest of the team. I didn't much like being treated like a dog, though. After that little bit of adjustment, though, the team, as a whole, turned out to be one of the better ones I experienced.

If the team survives the next encounter after ignoring my energy warnings, great; maybe they were right not to care. If the team dies, though, I generally let them figure it out. Apparently, though, I'm a good enough monk that I've managed to survive some tough situations with relatively low energy. It's still not a situation I like to be put in, though.

Once, and only once, have I had a leader say, "Let's wait for the monk to recharge." This was in a mission just prior to one of the ascension ones.. I've noticed players become a lot more careful as they approach ascension. Something about having their buns handed to them glazed and buttered, over and over again, probably cools their jets.

I have not withheld healing from any team member, except those who straggle away from the main party (but those reasons should seem obvious to even the straggler). No matter how annoying and obnoxious, or even stupid, I try to do my job as well as I possibly can, and keep my tongue silent for the most part. If the entire party dies, the harshest thing I might say is "That did not appear to be a winning strategy."

I do not get a lot of thanks for the work I do in keeping people healed, but when I am thanked, it means ten times more than I can express.

As for PvP fights, I have not experienced many of these, having preferred to focus on PvE so far. I completely expect to die nearly instantly on a PvP battlefield, as by reputation I understand monks taste good.

Kaylee Ann · Jun 01, 2005, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandstorm87

im a monk and i can beat you easily

O and for the low energy problem. Just use low energy skills, word of healing, signet of devotion, dwayna's kiss, orison of healing and healing breeze if necisary.
after you used one of these youve already gained 4/5 energy so you can use another skill!

*laughs* Lets look at the scenarios for a mo/e vrs a me/e:

1. Spell breaker. You people try and rely on this spell too much, which always ends up being your downfall. Out of everything you cast, what do you think is going to be the one thing I make sure to interupt....

2. Secondary mesmer vrs primary mesmer. Not even going to bother here.

Anything beyond those and you don't have a chance anyways. A paladin decided to pick on the lonesome mesmer last night in a pure 1v1. He didn't hit me a single time and I sent him to his grave. Learn what you are up against before opening your mouth next time. A mesmer IS the disrupting and causing trouble person of the game. They are meant to be royal pain in the asses preventing you from doing anything and everything.

But hey, if they ever implement 1v1 you and I are going to dance....