Curse

UberRusty · Aug 09, 2005, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Recently I have been playing the Rangers side of things, and I would like to ask why Quickshot is so popular. Is it because the shots have less chance of missing? Or is it because you can fire faster?

cookiehoarder · Aug 09, 2005, 10:57 AM // 10:57

It's because combine this skill with quickening zephyr, ignite/kindle arrows and tiger's fury. You can shoot about 1.5 times a second. Add favorable winds and winnowing to that and you're pulling around 60-90 damage. It's a bit like a Ranger Spike group in my opinion.

UberRusty · Aug 09, 2005, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Does favorable winds add onto the speed of the arrow, or is the bonus overidden by Quickshot?

ElderAtronach · Aug 09, 2005, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quick shot does not affect the travel speed of the arrow. It affects the "pull-back" speed on the bow only.

UberRusty · Aug 09, 2005, 02:00 PM // 14:00

So I see! So basically that's how people are able to fire off 15 - 16 shots in 8 seconds. HO HUM Favorable Winds and Quick-Shot I shall BUM! (Not really)

Arrows are weaker under Quickening Zephyr so I have heard, how does that work? Does it only affect Quickshot/Skills?

Neo-LD · Aug 09, 2005, 04:15 PM // 16:15

This appears to be picking up where the LMM QS thread left off.

Ok QS basically allow you to fire an extra arrow after every shot. The actual firing time for a QS is extremley short, and so yes this is how you fire arrows really fast. The fastest you can get is 3 per 2 seconds, using a short/flat bow, QZ, and QS. (TF reduces bow attack rate to 1/1.33 seconds, QS fires twice as fast as that, therefore 1/.66 seconds which = 3 per 2 seconds)

The reason why QS is worse/weaker under QZ is twofold. First, it will drain your energy insanely fast. Minimum you pay per QS under QZ is 3, take -1 for a zealous string and your paying 2 per shot. 32 max energy means 16 shots, 17 or 18 including energy regen. 18 shots at 3 per 2 seconds gives you 12 seconds of godliness and then the rest of the match to suck. Also, QZ requires wilderness which then kinda forces you to go with kindle as your prep. It has been playtested that a Ranger QS-ing with just kindle and favorable as buffs can deal about 50 damage per shot, but a ranger with Read the Wind (max marksmanhip), fav winds, and JI on him (you can invest in smiting instead of wilderness) can deal ~75 dmg per shot. Including firing rates, (the 2nd ranger fires normal/quick/normal/quick, with each normal at 1.33 and quick at .66, giving firing rate of 2/1.99 or just 1 per second) that ironically gives both rangers the same dps, when the QZ ranger is in his "god-mode". After the QZ guy is dry, hes just done.

<<IMPORTANT>>

This was not meant to restart the flame war that took over the other thread. He asked why he ahd heard QZ madde QS weaker. I explained. If someone wants to go and explain the QZ counteragrument, go ahead, so he can a balance of ideas coming at him. Please dont argue directly to/against what I just said, just lay out the QZ-using point of view, like I did for the non-QZ-ers.

elk · Aug 09, 2005, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Just to clarify that QS has a cast time of 1 sec. Because its a cast time - the actual firing of the weapon isn't considered (think about distracting shot w/ 3/4 cast). The speed buff on the character (i.e. TF) is to reduce that cast time further (1 sec less the 33% buff = .67secs) and the QZ is to reduce the recharge time of the skill to keep up with the ranger fire rate. It still works out to 3 shots every 2 secs though as ppl keep eluding too.

elk

GranDeWun · Aug 09, 2005, 05:13 PM // 17:13

For grins, try quickshot plus choking gas.

Aug 09, 2005, 08:20 PM // 20:20

But you dont want RTW on a QS guy no matter what, just use a Prep like CG and add TF to be effective.

Puddin Tame · Aug 10, 2005, 08:16 AM // 08:16

I just don't think it is very smart. Like, 10 seconds of pwnage, then you are useless. Providing the enemy is not as stupid as to let you live to recharge energy. A simple evasion skill = t3h owned?

I think i'll stick with tigers fury.

Aug 10, 2005, 08:55 AM // 08:55

I think CG triggers even on a miss.

UberRusty · Aug 10, 2005, 10:33 AM // 10:33

So let me recap on this dicussion. (Before it all goes to Hell in flames and hostile intentions)

To make a QUICKSHOT build you must first fire in this order:

Normal/QS/Normal/QS/Normal/QS etc.

What happens if you fire:

QS/QS/QS/QS/QS

cookiehoarder · Aug 10, 2005, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Quickshot has a recharge of 1 second, Quickening zephyr makes it recharge instantly. Add tigers fury and kindle/ignite and you're pumping out mad damage insanely fast. Tigers fury makes you attack 33% faster. With a 233% bonus on your attack speed plus the 17/18 damage from kindle, plus the 6 from favorable, plus the 4 from winnowing. That's a lot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

I think CG triggers even on a miss.

CG never misses. that's why I love it.

Neo-LD · Aug 10, 2005, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberRusty

What happens if you fire:

QS/QS/QS/QS/QS

You run out of energy in 12 seconds.

UberRusty · Aug 13, 2005, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Quote:

You run out of energy in 12 seconds.

But you fire faster than the QS/Normal/QS/Normal right?

Stuntastic · Aug 13, 2005, 03:00 PM // 15:00

My personal favorite quickshot build is a Ranger with Tiger's Fury (or Frenzy if you want to go warrior sub-class) and Kindle Arrows that fires in this order:

Penetrating Attack/QS/Distracting Shot/QS

Repeat this chain except sub in a normal attack for Distracting shot until it is recharged. However, keep in mind this doesn't work effectively under QZ and works best with a Zealous String and 14 Expertise.

Neo-LD · Aug 13, 2005, 03:13 PM // 15:13

If you are going to sub in a 10 energy bow attack to fire between QS, its should be dual. Gets more benifit from all the buffs you will be stacking.

In my opinion, though, QS rangers shouldnt use either of them.

Mind Wallaby · Aug 13, 2005, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuddinTame

Providing the enemy is not as stupid as to let you live to recharge energy.

If your enemy can kill you at will then you have more pressing concerns, yes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuddinTame

A simple evasion skill = t3h owned?

Every ranger damage build is hurt by evasion, Quick Shot is no different. Although as mentioned, Choking Gas (and Kindle and Ignite) hit through evasion, blocking, blindness, everything but dodging I think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuddinTame

I think i'll stick with tigers fury.

It's not an XOR situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberRusty

What happens if you fire:

QS/QS/QS/QS/QS

If you don't use QZ or any speed buffs, you actually fire slower than you would with a shortbow and TF on normal attack. If you have QZ and a speed buff, you fire about 1.5 times per second.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberRusty

Arrows are weaker under Quickening Zephyr so I have heard, how does that work?

This isn't true, Qz doesn't affect your arrow damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

18 shots at 3 per 2 seconds gives you 12 seconds of godliness and then the rest of the match to suck.

This is a stretch. At the absolute worst, you could switch to a non-zealous bow, sit and do nothing, and be ready to go in about 30 seconds. More likely you will be at least plinking with normal attacks while you recharge, firing Distracting Shots opportunistically (5s recharge makes this practical). If you have some kind of energy management (I've had reasonable results with Power Drain, which AFAIK provides the highest possible gain) you'll be out for even less time.

More abstractly, I think the ability to point at a caster and say "You're going to die before I count to ten" (and not be a liar

) is worth the downtime. Put another way, suppose there existed a skill with a description like this:

Quick Shot, Cliff Notes Version: Attack skill. After 10 seconds, target foe dies and you lose all energy.

Now of course I know Quick Shot is not this guaranteed (what is?), but I want to lay bare the tradeoff and hopefully convince people that it isn't a surefire loss.

Another important point to bring up is that you can't evaluate QZ in isolation, because it affects everybody on both sides. This makes it pretty poorly suited to random arena, but if your team plans for it, QZ is a Very Good Thing and you'll have a big edge against teams that don't function well under it. Actually I consider this to be the greatest strength of the Quickshot + QZ build-- not the Quick Shot itself, but the fact that it optimizes performance under a powerful skill that simultaneously helps your team and hurts the other.

As for the damage difference with and without QZ, I'm a bit too tired to crunch the numbers right now but I'll look more at it later. This minimal statement will have to suffice: You can take any set of damage buffs, without QZ, and obtain 50% more DPS if you use QZ-- then the issue is purely longevity. This is not meant as a defense or argument for QZ; it's just what I consider an informative way to look at the comparison.

FengShuiBundi · Aug 13, 2005, 08:54 PM // 20:54

What's really fun is getting 2 QS rangers and a curse necro with 16+2 (Awaken the Blood) in curses (obviously) and mark of pain. Call a target w/ MoP, make sure he's got people nearby (altar anybody?) and the QS rangers target him.

Massive AoE. Throw down Frozen Soil and start tossing Putrids around.

Fun.

Ender Ward · Aug 13, 2005, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by FengShuiBundi

What's really fun is getting 2 QS rangers and a curse necro with 16+2 (Awaken the Blood) in curses (obviously) and mark of pain. Call a target w/ MoP, make sure he's got people nearby (altar anybody?) and the QS rangers target him.

Massive AoE. Throw down Frozen Soil and start tossing Putrids around.

*grin*

Make sure these QS Rangers also use Ignite Arrows instead of Kindle (but make sure the rangers' main bow damage is physical, so kill any Greater Conflagration or Winter spirits first). Use constant and multiple cover hexes for Mark of Pain, and hope OpFor doesn't have Convert Hexes/Purge Signet.

Watch the fireworks

.