Aug 24, 2005, 06:25 AM // 06:25
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#121
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Lion's Arch Merchant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paine
Look dude. Frenzy must be one of the worst skills in the game. It's good for newbies to tryout but sucks in the length.
You take double damage from all sources like:
Empathy 31 dmg --> 62
Insidious Parasite 18 dmg --> 36
62 + 36 = 98 dmg
You're taking 98 dmg on yourself each time you hit someone with an attack while using Frenzy. That's just 2 hex spells. You don't wanna hear the rest.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pagansaint
Frenzy, for all intents and purposes, takes 2 skill slots. Which, unless you are using an adrenaline stance, at the LOWEST costs you the same as TF.
TF, for all its energy costs, points spent, and your hatred, takes 1 skill slot, without having to watch for incoming damage.
I use TF for an extra skill slot for the same energy cost and not having to worry about being attacked.
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You're both kidding, right?
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Aug 24, 2005, 06:32 AM // 06:32
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#122
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Near Your House
Guild: I Used To Own [ IUTO ]
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Frenzy's really dumb :P FTL
no offense
TF FTW!
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Aug 24, 2005, 06:39 AM // 06:39
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#123
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Lion's Arch Merchant
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Keep making subpar warriors with TF =)
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Aug 24, 2005, 06:40 AM // 06:40
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#124
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Just Plain Fluffy
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Guild: Idiot Savants
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhydrian
Gladitors defense is one of the very best defenses in the game.
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No argument. There are a few that I like better, including Healing Seed and Protective Bond, but it's a solid defensive skill, certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhydrian
Im going to point this out for you so your slow brain can maybe comprehend.
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I fell off the short bus on the way home from school today so I appreciate you taking the time to spell it out for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhydrian
And please when we PVP ignore me it doesnt matter you still will be skewered.
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Wait, why are you running Gladiator's Defense? I thought you ran defensive skills in order to make people switch targets. After all, you're throwing up a 75% block stance that kicks back some damage to boot. Shouldn't that be a blinding sign to the other team that they need to kill someone else?
I mean, I'm a total nub, so please explain this to me. Normally people attack the soft targets - the Monks, the Mesmers, the Elementalists - first, in order to get some fast kills. The Warriors will usually get blinded, or crippled, or have some hexes tossed onto them, but they usually don't take a lot of damage early on. So what exactly does adding a great defensive skill to your Warrior accomplish? From what I've seen, it'd seem that no one would attack a Warrior until the match was almost over anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhydrian
For a sword war the best combo is galraths+final thrust, its fone ignore me while I tab around and find a teamate hovering around 50% health.
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Well what did you want me to do? Attack you? Through Gladiator's Defense? When there are tasty casters running around? I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhydrian
Gladiators is on a 30 second recharge timer, its a great skill for a pure war build.
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So you can use it every 30 seconds. Awesome. How long does it last? Are we forced to try and kill you through it, or can we safely wait for your Gladiator's Defense to drop to finish you off? Since we're having this conversation we've clearly already wiped out the rest of your team, so if it's a patience game I think we can spare a few seconds for your tank to become vulnerable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhydrian
And is perfect for idiots who frenzy on you.
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So your goal in this game is to beat idiots?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhydrian
At this point they try for a heal sig, which really never saves them, easy to interrupt or try to run which is why theyve been hamstringed at the beginning of the combo.
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Wait, I'm confused. It sounds like you're talking about how to win in a 1v1 situation against another Warrior. I thought Guild Wars was a team game, with 4v4 arenas and 8v8 tournaments. Am I mistaken?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhydrian
And meanwhile while you ignore me I am tabbing around for casters who are at half health and just destroying them when they dont see it coming.
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I'm trying to understand how you are 'just destroying' people with Gladiator's Defense. Isn't that a defensive skill? Offense is what 'just destroys' people. I might have been dropped on my head as a child, but you're not making any sense. Please clarify.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhydrian
Self healing and can surivive thorugh quite a bit.
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Sure, you can survive through quite a bit. You're probably good enough at it that a good team would rather kill softer targets. But I still don't see how 'surviving through quite a bit' helps you 'just destroy' people. There's a large disconnect there that I'm having problems resolving. Please explain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhydrian
Any caster dumb enough to ignore a good warrior deserves to be smacked down, and any warrior who engages another war over a soft target should be smacked.....
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Agreed entirely. You say these things and it confuses me because it seems to undermine your own argument. First off, you're saying that a caster that ignores a good Warrior should be smacked down. Can't argue with that. But I'm failing to see how a skill like Gladiator's Defense helps make you a Warrior that casters fear. Doesn't that skill just block attacks? Not spells? Doesn't only deal damage against melee attacks? How does putting Gladiator's Defense in your most important skill slot help you *at all* against those pesky casters.
Then there's the issue of Warriors attacking other Warriors. I agree completely that it's a n00b mistake for Warriors to attack each other, it just doesn't make sense while those soft casters are around. So what exactly does Gladiator's Defense help you with here? Fighting off other Warriors who are too stupid to attack casters? That doesn't seem like it's shoring up any particularly big weaknesses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhydrian
wtf is your point anyways? its always a bad strategy to target warriors first.
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So why would you run a skill that helps you beat bad strategies?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhydrian
I mean seriously do you target warriors and if they dont have gladiators you attack them?
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Not really. Since you asked, normally I focus upon taking out soft targets first - the opponent's casters. Once those have all been eliminated, I look for the most disruptive targets that my opponent has left - Rangers with interrupts and pins, or Hammer Warriors who are knocking down our Monks. Then we move onto the Axe Warriors and Sword Warriors, because while they can deal useful damage, they usually don't, and they're a pain to kill in any case.
So usually my experience with Gladiator's Defense, almost entirely in the arenas I might add, comes after wiping out three of the four members of the opposing team. At that point there's just that one Warrior left, and when we start attacking him we notice the "-damage Gladiator's Defense" popping up, and observe 'hahah, this Warrior is using Gladiator's Defense'. Then we just wand and build adrenaline with normal attacks until Gladiator's Defense drops, and spike that Warrior out.
Which is why this whole debate is so confusing. Am I doing something wrong? From the venom in your arguments I'd gather that Gladiator's Defense should be wtfpwning me, and not just be something that we notice and laugh at once the battle is over. Can you explain this to me? My simple mind is having trouble wrapping itself around this concept.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhydrian
Sounds a little frickin dumb bud.
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Yeah, it does. So why are we talking about people attacking Warriors with Gladiator's Defense?
Peace,
-CxE
__________________
Don't argue with idiots. They bring you to their level and beat you with experience.
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Aug 24, 2005, 06:43 AM // 06:43
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#125
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Academy Page
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When did all this anti-frenzy shit start up? I'm guessing it was by the same people who think R/W's spamming irresistable blow are god's gift to PvP.
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Aug 24, 2005, 06:46 AM // 06:46
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#126
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Banned
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Quote:
Look dude. Frenzy must be one of the worst skills in the game. It's good for newbies to tryout but sucks in the length.
You take double damage from all sources like:
Empathy 31 dmg --> 62
Insidious Parasite 18 dmg --> 36
62 + 36 = 98 dmg
You're taking 98 dmg on yourself each time you hit someone with an attack while using Frenzy. That's just 2 hex spells. You don't wanna hear the rest.
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Please guys this isn't a contest to see who is more ignorant. I severely doubt you can beat Mhydrian but A for effort.
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Aug 24, 2005, 07:15 AM // 07:15
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#127
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Just Plain Fluffy
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Guild: Idiot Savants
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCS
Please guys this isn't a contest to see who is more ignorant.
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It isn't?
__________________
Don't argue with idiots. They bring you to their level and beat you with experience.
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Aug 24, 2005, 07:38 AM // 07:38
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#128
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Elite Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Just a Box in a Cage
Guild: Hurry Up The Cakes [Oven]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Peace,
-CxE
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Why am I having trouble believing this?
__________________
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Aug 24, 2005, 08:05 AM // 08:05
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#129
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New Zealand
Guild: Your Team
Profession: W/
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Gladiator's Defense is for people who like to delay their inevitable death (did I use that word correctly? My english sucks...)
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Aug 24, 2005, 08:09 AM // 08:09
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#130
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denmark
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Thanks for the good laugh Mhydrian, I really needed that.
Wait, your post wasn't a joke?
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Aug 24, 2005, 08:13 AM // 08:13
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#131
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerra.nova
Gladiator's Defense is for people who like to delay their inevitable death (did I use that word correctly? My english sucks...)
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against smiters? against eles? against mesmers? against necros? against secondary damages like kindle arrows?
no, no, more nos.
gladiators defense is a good defense. but, as has been pointed out, when you, the warrior, are getting attacked, their entire team is on you, and they (should) have more than just brutes with swords. whatsmore, waiting for max. 10s is nothing. people with gd get just as whipped as people without gd.
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Aug 24, 2005, 08:15 AM // 08:15
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#132
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Guest
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Glads defense is a PvE skill. Why would anyone waste their elite on that in PvP god knows why
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Aug 24, 2005, 08:18 AM // 08:18
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#133
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
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well we aint talking about pve, unless thats that other thread. they all merge together.
o yeha, back to the op. someone said theres no downtime on tf with qz. indeed, but that means your paying even more energy for a frankly useless mod on yourself (no double damage).
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Aug 24, 2005, 08:21 AM // 08:21
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#134
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Guest
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you're right "we" are not talking about PvE, but some other posters in this topic have some replies that makes me think they are
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Aug 24, 2005, 08:29 AM // 08:29
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#135
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
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well if you spend too long gvg'ing down around 600-900 gd would probably work. ive been random gvg with anyone to get easy faction and dam, those people just dont seem to understand. ive had a number of matches against teams who actually do attack the warrior (or whoever ran in first). therefore, even against teams who are meant to be organised and know things (guilds ffs) stuff like gd is actually valid.
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Aug 24, 2005, 08:56 AM // 08:56
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#136
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Banned
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Rii I suppose thats a good reason not to run in with frenzy on... Who does that anyway? You don't even run in with TF on unless you're a moron because you're just wasting time since you're not attacking yet.
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Aug 24, 2005, 08:58 AM // 08:58
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#137
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
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indeed. but people who like running in might not think that runnning in is the wrong thing, and therefore decide that instead of not runnning in theyll take gd :S. scewered logic i know but i can see the cogs moving in some peoples head.
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Aug 24, 2005, 11:29 AM // 11:29
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#138
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Lion's Arch Merchant
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Just ignore ensign, hes a nub. i mean, im not sure wether they still teach this nonsense about "Evolution" in "Berkeley, CA".
Just look, he tries to prove that cleave is totally inferior to eviscarate using ... NUMBERS. AHAHAHAHHA. Everyone knows that math is the work of the devil, and that all skills are good in the right build. You just have to know how to play.
****
So to actually add something to this thread:
It seems that frenzy does have a downside: in a spike-heavy environment, using frenzy might actually be dangerous since spike-oriented teams do not need to take out the monk first.
This also depends on other interesting factors. Are the axe warriors that actually carry a shield? How good are armor-ignoring effects like obs. flame? How considerable is the dmg increase while frenzied if you compare it to an usual target (monk)? Are situations where the warrior cannot switch out of frenzy fast enough? Are these situations easy to force upon the other team and is it worth it in the end?
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Aug 24, 2005, 11:44 AM // 11:44
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#139
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
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obs. flame is better than air spiking. its exhaustion, well done, but its 112 damage no matter what. therefore. 5 el/me and 3 mo/x, and with a small energy cost and short recharge, your laughing all the way to the bank. (unless prot spirit works on it).
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Aug 24, 2005, 12:01 PM // 12:01
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#140
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Banned
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\ ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ]
ROFL 5 ELES FERTILE DOWN
Anyhoo
Quote:
Just ignore ensign, hes a nub. i mean, im not sure wether they still teach this nonsense about "Evolution" in "Berkeley, CA".
Just look, he tries to prove that cleave is totally inferior to eviscarate using ... NUMBERS. AHAHAHAHHA. Everyone knows that math is the work of the devil, and that all skills are good in the right build. You just have to know how to play.
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That made my night.
Quote:
This also depends on other interesting factors. Are the axe warriors that actually carry a shield? How good are armor-ignoring effects like obs. flame? How considerable is the dmg increase while frenzied if you compare it to an usual target (monk)? Are situations where the warrior cannot switch out of frenzy fast enough? Are these situations easy to force upon the other team and is it worth it in the end?
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In the end it's simply ineffective to switch to a war in the middle of a fight because he is using frenzy. A 200 damage obs flame (god forbid) just doesn't seem like much when the team thats holding the alter has a level 11 fertile up. You won't really kill the war and will only give the monks a bit of relief.
Then again I still stand by my statement that no one uses obs flame.
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