Curse

Asplode · Aug 22, 2005, 10:04 AM // 10:04

1) Frenzy has a very distinct sound effect. I've seen frenzy used on MS's rangers, and god damn if I got a dime for every time I heard "Target this frenzy ranger NOW!" in Ventrilo...

2) Putrid, the reason it becomes a problem is if their necro beats your necro to it, right after YOU kill someone. Not only that, but when the necro sees 260 above your head, you know you're the next target.

3) It's not too controllable, as in, frenzy lasts 8 seconds, but that's both a blessing and a boon, because you can't turn it off at will, unless you have a second stance to pop.

4) Maintaining an attack-speed stance isn't always going to translate into bigger damage output. Why? Because if you attack 9 million times a second, and you're still chasing your target around the map, your DPS is still reduced to zero. You don't just hammer the TF button throughout the entire fight, you look for opportunities while you build up your adn combo.

5) Nature's renewal isn't the answer to all smite, it still takes 5 seconds to drop, and in those 5 seconds your warrior, no matter how uber, is sustaining large amounts of damage. Damage that costs energy to heal, energy that isn't free.

MCS · Aug 22, 2005, 10:44 AM // 10:44

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1) Frenzy has a very distinct sound effect. I've seen frenzy used on MS's rangers, and god damn if I got a dime for every time I heard "Target this frenzy ranger NOW!" in Ventrilo...

A: I'm not a ranger, B: I pop off sprint they've all lost their monk targets and have to re organize all to get like 1-2 double damage hits off on me.

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2) Putrid, the reason it becomes a problem is if their necro beats your necro to it, right after YOU kill someone. Not only that, but when the necro sees 260 above your head, you know you're the next target.

Well thats the thing, warriors use sprint. Thats why any warrior who isn't an idiot will sprint when he is about to kill his target.
My OP:

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YOU'RE THE ONE KILLING. When you're about to kill someone turn on sprint tada no more frenzy.

Reading is a wonderful skill.

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3) It's not too controllable, as in, frenzy lasts 8 seconds, but that's both a blessing and a boon, because you can't turn it off at will, unless you have a second stance to pop.

Once again we're back to warriors using sprint.

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4) Maintaining an attack-speed stance isn't always going to translate into bigger damage output. Why? Because if you attack 9 million times a second, and you're still chasing your target around the map, your DPS is still reduced to zero. You don't just hammer the TF button throughout the entire fight, you look for opportunities while you build up your adn combo.

Cripple ftw.

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5) Nature's renewal isn't the answer to all smite, it still takes 5 seconds to drop, and in those 5 seconds your warrior, no matter how uber, is sustaining large amounts of damage. Damage that costs energy to heal, energy that isn't free.

As I said you wouldn't be the target so any smiting that would be hitting you would just be random spurts as someone runs past you or something. If they target you, you guessed it, sprint.

All I've seen so far in this thread is people attempting to tell me how I can get hit while using frenzy. The thing is your examples are all terrible.

People don't target warriors and if they do the warrior uses sprint so fast that it causes more problems than it solves. YAY I've faced you as well and I've used frenzy and I've never been the direct target of anything.

cookiehoarder · Aug 22, 2005, 10:59 AM // 10:59

I dunno about all this. I use Tiger's all the time on my W/R. I've won halls plenty of times playing W/R with Tiger's. IMO dropping a few strength won't affect my damage at all.

MCS · Aug 22, 2005, 11:02 AM // 11:02

This isn't about it being completely useless it's about it being less effective than frenzy. I've won the HoH with henchmen that doesn't mean a henchmen is better than a person it means a henchman was good enough.

Those few points you dropped from strength could have been put towards something useful like tactics for a 3 energy fear me.

cookiehoarder · Aug 22, 2005, 11:10 AM // 11:10

True, I'll have to try frenzy sometime on my axe warrior.

Asplode · Aug 22, 2005, 01:22 PM // 13:22

So basically you're saying that warriors never take damage in pvp, therefore frenzy is good? It may be, if only that were the case. The ugly truth is that groups that are actually worth fighting, that is, groups that don't play 'chase the monk' all day, will first cripple your damage before going after the squishies, ESPECIALLY if frenzy is being used, observed, and exploited.

FenrirOfSleipnir · Aug 22, 2005, 01:28 PM // 13:28

I myself used frenzy untill I got flurry, and after that I only used it once more... against my Dopple. For those who know what I mean can understand why I took Frenzy in the dopple battle :P
Ofcourse I would choose Flurry over Frenzy, cause taking Frenzy into pvp is almost the same as walking with a sign on your head saying "easy kill, take me out first".

Kai Nui · Aug 22, 2005, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCS

OH EM GEE

Hey! I made that up! That's copyright infringement! (actually I DID make that up. My first post here was titled that (or my second) and I know he got that from there. Anyway sw33t. Er, Sweet I mean, don't maen 2 d15r35p3c7 teh rulez.

Actually, I think you're intitled to your oppinion. I mean if you like Tiger's fury, go with it, if you like frenzy go with it. Yay we're all happy. Let them use the worse one in case you find them in battle against you. The main thing about wisdom is: Having a lot to say, and not saying it. You wouldn't want to help out your potential enemies... would you?

ZD_kusanagi · Aug 22, 2005, 01:51 PM // 13:51

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Originally Posted by Kai Nui

Actually, I think you're intitled to your oppinion. I mean if you like Tiger's fury, go with it, if you like frenzy go with it. Yay we're all happy. Let them use the worse one in case you find them in battle against you. The main thing about wisdom is: Having a lot to say, and not saying it. You wouldn't want to help out your potential enemies... would you?

Oh seriously, this is an open forum where people want to discuss what's better for a Warrior to use. Frenzy, or Tiger's Fury. You know that most of these people will walk away from this using what skill they see s the best anyway, but that's not the point of a forum. It's about your opinion. Trying to change others to what you see as right, etc. Please delete your post please because it was basically the most useless thing that could have been said in this thread.

Zeru · Aug 22, 2005, 06:01 PM // 18:01

I love how people assume that their opponents are omniscient and will always know when they have frenzy up and will always be able to make a brutal counter before they are able to stance cancel.

Yeah you're going to die if you have frenzy on the entire battle, but when you actually learn how to play warrior effectively you'll know when are safe times and when are not, and the amount of problems you have will be very few.

As for not targeting warriors, yes, good teams will target warriors if they see you too far back from your monks. Other than that, probably only if you are doing something like flag or relic running. In none of those cases should frenzy be on anyway. Last case scenario of this would be in a non-NR environment where you are incredibly buff stacked and the enemy monks healing cannot keep up, meaning that you have to kill or heavily debuff the warriors to keep alive. If the latter isn't an option, then the warriors must be targeted. Yet nobody says you have to use frenzy 100% of the time. If you're hitting a ranger to gain adrenaline and doing pitiful damage, you think he's going to notice or care? If a monks getting adrenaline spiked, you think he's going to relay to his team that you're frenzied and that they will be able to have a decent spike on call before you can stance cancel? Uh huh...

Going W/R for TF solely is just stupid. You could go mes for signet of humility or weariness, monk for JI, or as mcs suggested pump tactics to 7+1 for a 3 energy fear me. In a non-nr environment you will have more options available, a la strength of honor and a conjure.

Yukito Kunisaki · Aug 22, 2005, 06:15 PM // 18:15

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Originally Posted by Eonwe

Is this even debatable? I mean, honestly. W/R is a sketchy combo to begin with... but going W/R for... Tiger's Fury? Are you on drugs?

I want what he's smoking!...

I'm a Battle Rage {E} fan but I have respect for Frenzy as well.

thekolman · Aug 22, 2005, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Ya I mean come on now, no one is going to be focusing on each warrior to see when his attack speed starts to increase. Even if they do, by the time they call it over vent and the other team targets him, he will have already gotten off his spike with frenzy on.

And if the warrior is getting hit with frenzy on? He hits sprint and you just wasted x amount of energy targeting a warrior.

Mr Bananapants · Aug 22, 2005, 07:30 PM // 19:30

How bout using the Beast mastrey line that you have to take to get TF and bringing along a pet? Pets are supposed to deal pretty good damage if you have your BM at 12+. Then you have a little buddy eating your opponent and you just fill the rest of your slots with axe adrenaline based attacks, and maybe one or two pet skills to spam after the 5 sec downtime. Or you could bring call of haste.... or something like that. Then you are not actually wasting the Attribute points.

CKaz · Aug 22, 2005, 09:04 PM // 21:04

blah blah blah

with zealous axe haft I keep up 33% xtra attack ALL THE TIME with Tigers Fury
My stance axe, stance shield and this yes, lead my W/R build right now and works well

I often am targeted/take hits, why help my enemy?
I have good enough attribs, I fill my bar, I'm as well rounded as a W/R can be

Yes I didn't take overused W/MO
Yes W/R isnt likely as uber or flexible as other combos
There may be better W/R builds

But it works very well for me, reasonably flexible and I have party members/I don't try to do it all. I leave that to the unsocial monk farmers

Quebec Osti · Aug 22, 2005, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Imo using Frenzy or Tiger is a matter of what build you are doing. If you plan on having non-attack skills you need to be able to pull quick... frenzy is the way to go. Although, some of my warrior setups use minimal non-attack skill (sometimes only sprint) In this case I go TF no questions asked...

Also, about the fact many say a warrior cant aford 10mana cost every 7-9sec,
your not gonna want attack speed buff ALL the time. Ppl always kite warriors and 50% of the time, your better off with sprint on. Its not like you need an attack speed buff 24/7.

If you dont plan on using skills from a secondary prof on a build you are doing,
A couple pts in Beastmastery is nothin. What does it cost you? 2-3 pts in strenght?? Big deal... 2-3% armor penetration isnt gonna change much to your damage input. (probably not even 1dam less every hit)

Anyways, imo, both are viable... just depends on your build.

NIB · Aug 22, 2005, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Berseker stance with qz beats everything in my book. And frenzy gets you killed, cause once you kill an enemy, you are standing next to his body, so you will most likely get hit by an enemy putrid. And 1 putrid can cause a chain of putrids. With 2-3 putrids, you will die. And wasting 5 energy to cast sprint after all your kills, isnt a smart thing to do either.

And many ppl use tiger's fury, cause they usually bring a spirit(like fertile, eoe, etc). Using a spirit is almost standard procedure for many warriors nowdays. And i dont know whether eoe also deals double dmg with frenzy. If it does, that alone makes frenzy completely useless IMO.

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A warrior gains .66 energy per second. If he uses 10e every 10 seconds he's using 1e per second, so he can't keep it up at all times without some energy management skills.

You can, when you use zealous. You can drop your attack rate down to 1sec per hit(this is your 10 energy per 10 secs) and still have +1 energy regen to gain a surplus. Axe warriors dont need much energy anyway.

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Ever heard of Sundering? Use that and Frenzy.

Sundering is sucks. You can do more dmg with vampiric.

And in the end, its a personal preference. Would you rather dieing to putrid or whatever with frenzy, or play it a bit safer with tiger's fury which costs more?

Wilymo · Aug 22, 2005, 10:23 PM // 22:23

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Originally Posted by Vindexus

The better choice is Frenzy, because it's half the energy, can have 100% upkeep, and is unattributed.

ERRR WRONG!!!!!!!!

The better choice for r/w is most certainly NOT frenzy. Tigers Fury all the friggin way. You can use a duration 6 second TiGers fury and have your energy FULLY recharged. Some people are truly ignorant. Expertise, the greatest attribute branch in the game, makes Tigers Fury Godly. However, go on and type with blind rage saying how l33t frenzy would be on my r/w. =.= Oh and buddy people do attack Warriors. Have you ever been to HoH? It really does not seem like it. If you have, thne you would know that PUTRID EXPLOSION would friggin OWN a frenzy user. Dont tell me that putrid never gets used in HoH....thats just ridiculous. There is such a thing as AoE man, and thats where frenzy goes down the toilet. Sure, in a perfect world where NO ONE attacks your frenzy warrior and you magicaly avoid all AoE then you could rightfully state that frenzy is better than TF. However, this world is not perfect. YOu get nailed by AoE all the time, putrid is taking over, etc. Oh and not to mention that My guild CALLS frenziers. Yea...keep that in mind. Different builds offer different things. Ranger/WArrior = Frenzy < Tigers fury.

Warrior/monk = Flurry/Frenzy
Warrior/necro = Flurry/Frenzy

My imput has been given =P

WiLYMo

MCS · Aug 22, 2005, 10:33 PM // 22:33

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So basically you're saying that warriors never take damage in pvp, therefore frenzy is good? It may be, if only that were the case. The ugly truth is that groups that are actually worth fighting, that is, groups that don't play 'chase the monk' all day, will first cripple your damage before going after the squishies, ESPECIALLY if frenzy is being used, observed, and exploited.

I'm saying a smart warrior will never take high damage while frenzy is on. I'm sorry to tell you this but YAY isn't worth fighting. I've faced YAY like I've faced BR, I've won some I've lost some I've never been targeted spiked or focused. The thought of watching all your damage dealers switch off my teams monks for several seconds to attack me a few times only to have me use sprint is laughable.

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Berseker stance with qz beats everything in my book. And frenzy gets you killed, cause once you kill an enemy, you are standing next to his body, so you will most likely get hit by an enemy putrid. And 1 putrid can cause a chain of putrids. With 2-3 putrids, you will die. And wasting 5 energy to cast sprint after all your kills, isnt a smart thing to do either.

Please at least read the entire OP before posting. Or any of the replys, or anything at all? You don't run out of energy and you DO sprint before you kill something. Period.

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And many ppl use tiger's fury, cause they usually bring a spirit(like fertile, eoe, etc). Using a spirit is almost standard procedure for many warriors nowdays. And i dont know whether eoe also deals double dmg with frenzy. If it does, that alone makes frenzy completely useless IMO.

Yes EoE deals double damage not that it matters. EoE is used for EoE bombs (I'm dead either way) and killing spirits in which case it dies before a person usually. I don't know why you would say a spirit war is standard procedure because it's really not. Having a spirit spammer is standard procedure. Having a long recharge low level spirit is a waste of a skill slot.

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A warrior gains .66 energy per second. If he uses 10e every 10 seconds he's using 1e per second, so he can't keep it up at all times without some energy management skills.

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You can, when you use zealous. You can drop your attack rate down to 1sec per hit(this is your 10 energy per 10 secs) and still have +1 energy regen to gain a surplus. Axe warriors dont need much energy anyway.

Lovely of you to contradict your own statements in the same post. One second I don't have the energy to use sprint when I am about to kill a target the next I have no energy problems at all.

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Ever heard of Sundering? Use that and Frenzy.

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Sundering is sucks. You can do more dmg with vampiric.

Yes sundering sucks.

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And in the end, its a personal preference. Would you rather dieing to putrid or whatever with frenzy, or play it a bit safer with tiger's fury which costs more?

It wasn't the energy cost please don't attempt to make an entire post telling me why I am wrong based upon 1 statement I made. If you get hit with putrid you simply don't know what you're doing. Little hits don't matter at all and no on focuses warriors. NO ONE NOT YAY NOT BR NOT SB NOT ZPZG NOT NES NOTHING NOTTA ZIP ZILCH NO ONE.

The reason tigers sucks is the damage loss not the energy cost. The damage lost from the downtime AND the str (however small it may be).

Eonwe · Aug 23, 2005, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Let's put it this way, so everyone knows. If you're a W/R using Tiger's Fury, you suck at Guild Wars. End of discussion people.

Ensign · Aug 23, 2005, 01:01 AM // 01:01

This thread was MCS setting a stupid trap and I'm seriously disappointed by all of you who walked into it.

Peace,
-CxE