Curse

octaviancmb · Aug 28, 2005, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekolman

Obscure solutions? What are you talking about. Mend ailment is one of the most common monk spells in the game. After phantom pain gives you deep wound, just mend it and bam, you have completely destroyed his fragility chain.

Speaking merely as someone who regularly farms faction in random 4's with a mend ailment build that usually gets 16+flawlesses each time I run it, I have to say that I always suggest to my team "take out the mes/nec first." That's the power of the build. I run every counter to this build *but* hex breaker (b/c I can't), and it still gives me trouble (I often don't get a flawless when facing this build). I can endure Backfire, Diversion, Air and Fire spikes, 2/2 Monk/War combos, hex-stacking, condition stacking, everything, but throw a Fragility build out and usually someone on my team dies.

Its greatest power is that it doesn't need the entire "frag-phantom-shatter-vir" combo to function at all. As long as *any* member of the frag build's team is throwing out *either* conditions *or* damage, this build can capitalize on it. The damage comes too fast and too easily to be able to deal with before someone gets owned.

Now it doesn't rule the world. No build does. Even my pretty-damn-good Monk build can be defeated. But every time I see this build hit the arena opposite me, it generally causes me to lose out on a flawless award. And that annoys me.

Mes/Necs own. I give them their props.

smurfhunter · Aug 28, 2005, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by arredondo

#52 is the post I agreed with. The stuff before it was filled with false forum theory that will misinform the masses.

glad to know we agree arredondo... not so glad i wasted all this time here...

smurfhunter · Aug 28, 2005, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by octaviancmb

Speaking merely as someone who regularly farms faction in random 4's with a mend ailment build that usually gets 16+flawlesses each time I run it, I have to say that I always suggest to my team "take out the mes/nec first." That's the power of the build. I run every counter to this build *but* hex breaker (b/c I can't), and it still gives me trouble (I often don't get a flawless when facing this build). I can endure Backfire, Diversion, Air and Fire spikes, 2/2 Monk/War combos, hex-stacking, condition stacking, everything, but throw a Fragility build out and usually someone on my team dies.

Its greatest power is that it doesn't need the entire "frag-phantom-shatter-vir" combo to function at all. As long as *any* member of the frag build's team is throwing out *either* conditions *or* damage, this build can capitalize on it. The damage comes too fast and too easily to be able to deal with before someone gets owned.

Now it doesn't rule the world. No build does. Even my pretty-damn-good Monk build can be defeated. But every time I see this build hit the arena opposite me, it generally causes me to lose out on a flawless award. And that annoys me.

Mes/Necs own. I give them their props.

you simply werent running the counters to it. and i appreciate the difficulty, run the counters and you cant do much else. its the same with alot of other builds...

octaviancmb · Aug 28, 2005, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

you simply werent running the counters to it. and i appreciate the difficulty, run the counters and you cant do much else. its the same with alot of other builds...

Well, then please give me your secret and hidden counter so that I can always get a flawless rather than just winning. I'd really like to know it. Till then, I'll keep giving my props to the Mes/Nec when he kills one or two guys on my team.

cmb

smurfhunter · Aug 28, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

add convert, and use it sparingly.

but i shouldnt be talking, my 4-4 monk build sucks

thekolman · Aug 28, 2005, 07:33 PM // 19:33

I think communication is the best counter, which of course doesn't happen in random arena. If you are so inclined, you can watch any N/Me or Me/N and see when he casts fragility, and have your hex removal ready. Or, wait until he uses phantom pain, then when the purple arrow on your teammate's name changes to a grey one, mend him.

octaviancmb · Aug 28, 2005, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

add convert, and use it sparingly.

but i shouldnt be talking, my 4-4 monk build sucks

Yeah...convert would be nice.

But if I want maximum efficiency and self-survival, I have no room on my 8-slots for it. We probably don't disagree, either.

When I'm on top of my game, I can still keep up with a Mes/Nec. But against a *smart* one that waits till he sees 2 people on my team with 1 condition each before unloading...well, that's what costs me a flawless.

It's a very strong build. That's why I have to make sure my guys kill it first.
cmb

smurfhunter · Aug 28, 2005, 07:52 PM // 19:52

yeap every build has a weakness... maybe if you take out a res sig? monks usually drop first and they shouldnt really waste time resing.

maybe you alreay have 8 monk skills. in that case... well... i would test it out a few times leaving out one skill for convert.. if nothing works well too bad you lose a flawless

its not like it costs you the match either

arredondo · Aug 28, 2005, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekolman

I think communication is the best counter, which of course doesn't happen in random arena. If you are so inclined, you can watch any N/Me or Me/N and see when he casts fragility, and have your hex removal ready. Or, wait until he uses phantom pain, then when the purple arrow on your teammate's name changes to a grey one, mend him.

Heh, there are variations to the standard cast sequence that work pretty good. Let's say I first cast Conjure Phantom and then Phantom Pain and let them degen a bit (CP in for Shatter Delusions). Nothing unusual from the other team's PoV. Near the end of the 10 second degen (or if PP is removed) a fragger can cast Fragility-->Virulence in two seconds before the other team has even a chance to communicate and react. Early healing the degen can happen, but if not, the spike is crazy.

With Fragility exposed, another .7 second cast of Conjure Phantom will protect it while the enemy is scrambling for Condition removal/mass healing help. This method reduces about 100 points of damage due to the loss of Shatter Delusions (67) and one Fragility trigger (34) not connecting during the Deep Wound startup, but that damage is made up by ten seconds of added Conjure Phantom degen (-5x2x10= -100) as well as a full -3 degen of PP.

And without SD on the skill bar in this cast version (assuming I don't need Backfire), one can drop Domination and run any other line they wish since only Fast Cast and Illusion have any needed points in them. Inspiration is available for those who have energy problems or want Mantra of Resolve/Concentration to avoid being interrupted. Or look into the Necro line (aside from Death) for another specialty skill you think will work for you. No need to do things in a single way.

Rajamic · Aug 28, 2005, 08:56 PM // 20:56

The only thing regarding this build I'd like to know from ANet is why Virulence gives 3 conditions when it only lists 2 in its description.

ElderAtronach · Aug 28, 2005, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by octaviancmb

Well, then please give me your secret and hidden counter so that I can always get a flawless rather than just winning. I'd really like to know it. Till then, I'll keep giving my props to the Mes/Nec when he kills one or two guys on my team.

cmb

I'll say it again, shielding hands owns fragility. Why aren't you running it on your monk, anyways?

octaviancmb · Aug 28, 2005, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElderAtronach

I'll say it again, shielding hands owns fragility. Why aren't you running it on your monk, anyways?

Lets see...oh yeah, 25 second recharge time vs 15 second recharge time... But, yeah, halving fragility's damage would be ideal. Alas that Shielding Hands requires Protection Prayers to be far, far too high and its duration is far, far too low to be really useful at all to me. (And as good as I am with a Monk, I'm not psychic, how do you know who's going to be hit with fragility before it does 200 damage to them? Even if I've got it on my bar, I'm not burning a spell like Shielding Hands just in the off chance someone has Fragility on them instead of Wastrels.)

Remember that the Fragility Mesmer chooses when to unload, and the unloading takes about 6-7 seconds (and that's only if they *need* to apply a fresh condition with phantom/shatter, otherwise it's 3), ultimately resulting in an 80% reduction in your ally's health followed by a quick death.

I think we'll all have to be content to congratulate Mes/Necs on their build, especially when they pull it off well. It is quite deadly...annoyingly so.

cmb

Kabale · Aug 30, 2005, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Mend Ailment works wonders too. As it heals for every remaining condition, you'll get a lot of heal from it.

...Until they hit your Mend with distracting or somethin...then u're wasted unless you have an alternative...(such as shielding hands)

ElderAtronach · Aug 30, 2005, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

(And as good as I am with a Monk, I'm not psychic, how do you know who's going to be hit with fragility before it does 200 damage to them? Even if I've got it on my bar, I'm not burning a spell like Shielding Hands just in the off chance someone has Fragility on them instead of Wastrels.)

As long as you're not playing with a random team, or a group of complete idiots in team arena, you can ask for people to CTRL-click fragility. Not that hard, really.

"I have Fragility on me!", throw shielding hands on the guy. Again, if your team is the least bit competant, they'll recognize the Me/N as a threat and take him down (or at least try).

Plus, most times you'll be the target of Fragility anyhow, and shielding hands reduces damage from everyone else's attacks as well.