Curse

Phades · Aug 29, 2005, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anton H

I make a case for it only because I am so, so tired of using DH. I think Anet should consider making other elites worthy of use.

Ok, you are missing the point. A monk can fit virtually any spell in his repitoir between hammer swings without an attack speed boost. Dwarven battle stance prevents the use of such attack speed boosts. A n/w with a cold sword or axe and flurry while using shiverspine accomplishes this in a much more graceful manner. It also stops the hammer user from boosting damage via attack skills, which other interupt combinations do not share the same disadvantage.

ElderAtronach · Aug 30, 2005, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Ok, you are missing the point. A monk can fit virtually any spell in his repitoir between hammer swings without an attack speed boost. Dwarven battle stance prevents the use of such attack speed boosts. A n/w with a cold sword or axe and flurry while using shiverspine accomplishes this in a much more graceful manner. It also stops the hammer user from boosting damage via attack skills, which other interupt combinations do not share the same disadvantage.

DBS + I will avenge you.

smurfhunter · Aug 30, 2005, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alura Pyro

I use a sword as my mesmer (IW) because of attack speed

axe and sword are same attack speed.

LifeInfusion · Aug 30, 2005, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookiehoarder

Swords are trash in PvP as stated above. Why? Axe can put out damage way faster and way better IMHO.

I know. But I never found a good axe. lol

Ensign · Aug 30, 2005, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

I know. But I never found a good axe. lol

You're using Illusionary Weaponry...

To respond to other points without quotes because I'm lazy:

1) DBS is shit. Add an attack speed boost to it, and I'll at least stop to consider it. The 'buff' to that skill doesn't address why the skill was bad at all, and will continue to remain bad until it is seriously reworked.

2) Backbreaker is poor for two reasons. One, because Stonefist Gauntlets exist, making Devastating Hammer a 3 second knockdown while Backbreaker stays a 4 second knockdown. The second is because Devastating gives a much stronger knockdown chain - Devastating -> Hammer Bash has only a .5 second gap in which they can respond (whether Frenzied or not), while Backbreaker has a 1.25 second gap in between knockdowns, or .666- seconds with Frenzy. In either case the extra 3 strikes of adrenaline slows down your knocklocks immensely and makes the combo generally not worth it. Backbreaker is a skill that I'd want to run on a Warrior secondary to make up for the lack of Stonefist Gauntlets, if I ran a secondary Hammer Warrior.

3) Heavy Blow sucks because people block.

Peace,
-CxE

ElderAtronach · Aug 30, 2005, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

1) DBS is shit. Add an attack speed boost to it, and I'll at least stop to consider it. The 'buff' to that skill doesn't address why the skill was bad at all, and will continue to remain bad until it is seriously reworked.

DBS + I will avenge you

. Yes, avenge is conditional. Yes, avenge doesn't last long enough. Yes, DBS is still shit. But did that make you at least stop to consider it?

Quote:

2) Backbreaker is poor for two reasons. One, because Stonefist Gauntlets exist, making Devastating Hammer a 3 second knockdown while Backbreaker stays a 4 second knockdown. The second is because Devastating gives a much stronger knockdown chain - Devastating -> Hammer Bash has only a .5 second gap in which they can respond (whether Frenzied or not), while Backbreaker has a 1.25 second gap in between knockdowns, or .666- seconds with Frenzy. In either case the extra 3 strikes of adrenaline slows down your knocklocks immensely and makes the combo generally not worth it. Backbreaker is a skill that I'd want to run on a Warrior secondary to make up for the lack of Stonefist Gauntlets, if I ran a secondary Hammer Warrior.

3) Heavy Blow sucks because people block.

Hammer bash and heavy blow would both suck then, because people can block both. At least heavy blow adds +24 or something damage when it lands, and to remove the weakness from dev, you'd need another monk on your team with Superman's reflexes.

sandman1 · Aug 30, 2005, 02:31 AM // 02:31

i used a swd and found the dmg to be lacking (bleed,gash,hamstring,ect on a monk? no probs! with mend ali he will remove+heal back for more than watever u dmg him for -_- )i could never solo take down a monk with a swd
but after changing to Axe i could easily take down bascially any casters solo
while the team attacks another ,

Eonwe · Aug 30, 2005, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElderAtronach

Hammer bash and heavy blow would both suck then, because people can block both. At least heavy blow adds +24 or something damage when it lands, and to remove the weakness from dev, you'd need another monk on your team with Superman's reflexes.

Eh, you're missing the point. He was referring to if devastating was blocked/evaded. I'll second the notion that Heavy Blow is trash. Conditional knockdowns = no fun

.

Darc.Syde · Aug 30, 2005, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Axe for dmg and disruption
hammer for dmg and disruption
sword for some dmg and utility elite

i noticed that about sword, skills like charge or martyr are really hard to run on axe or hammer warriors. that's probobly the only place for sword warriors. a good sword warrior will run as much disruption as an Axe warrior, so they arent bad.

ElderAtronach · Aug 30, 2005, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Omg... martyr on a W/Mo. + mend or purge?

I think it might actually work, if only because nobody would suspect a W/Mo to be using MARTYR of all elites! If you ran a martyr zealots flurry fear me build, that would bring a lot of defense, a lot of energy denial, and a bit of offense (from zealots) to the build.

Let's see...

I'd name the character Spanish Inquisition
W/Mo

Smiting 10
Tactics 14 (10+1+3)
Swords 12 (11+1)

Zealous sword of enchantment

Martyr {E}
Purge Conditions
Galrath Slash
Savage Slash
Fear Me
Flurry
Zealots Fire
Res Sig

I can't remember what the breakpoint for Fear Me is, I think it's 14 but correct me if I'm wrong.

Darc.Syde · Aug 30, 2005, 03:35 AM // 03:35

alot of people run martyr on a warrior/monk, especially if you're running disease. it keeps it on their side.

Eonwe · Aug 30, 2005, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Break point on Fear Me for 4 energy loss is 13.

Phades · Aug 30, 2005, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElderAtronach

DBS + I will avenge you.

Only if you use i will avenge you first.

Ensign · Aug 30, 2005, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElderAtronach

Hammer bash and heavy blow would both suck then, because people can block both.

That's not the reason Heavy Blow sucks against blocks and evades. Heavy Blow sucks because it doesn't do anything unless Devastating Hammer hits. If the Devastating is Blocked or Evaded, Heavy Blow is just a dumb skill that does nothing and makes you lose all adrenaline. Hammer Bash lets you get the second knockdown (or at least a chance at a second knockdown), and that's much more important than some inconsequential damage.

Basically Hammer Bash is better against teams that run Guardian, Aegis, Wards, and good condition removal. Heavy Blow is better against teams without blocks, evades, or condition removal. Guess which teams I'm more concerned about beating.

The part that always gets me is that you'll often find Heavy Blow right next to Irresistable Blow on someone's skill bar. You run IB because people block, but if people block Heavy Blow is marginal...it just doesn't make any sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darc.Syde

alot of people run martyr on a warrior/monk, especially if you're running disease. it keeps it on their side.

I've wanted to slap Martyr on a WaMo before, but the problem there is that Warriors are the class that really gets beat up by conditions. Blind, Cripple, and to an extent Weakness are all common conditions in competitive environments, and if any of those stick your Warrior is all but useless. Contrast that with a caster class, who will happily ignore every condition but Daze. I can see running Martyr on a Wa/Mo if you have multiple copies of Purge Conditions around and a team prepared to spam condition removal on that guy, but in general I think it's the entirely wrong character to put that skill on.

Peace,
-CxE

ElderAtronach · Aug 30, 2005, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Thanks for clearing that up, Ensign. That makes a lot of sense.

ICURADik · Aug 30, 2005, 02:46 PM // 14:46

I think part of the reason for martyr on W/Mo's was the rampant use of Signet of Humility against monk primaries, either to shut down e drain, word, or martyr. Some of the most important elites of you team will be contained on your monks. But then people started to catch onto warrior's having the martyr, and now no one runs in on warriors.

Yukito Kunisaki · Aug 30, 2005, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

You're using Illusionary Weaponry...

3) Heavy Blow sucks because people block.

Peace,
-CxE

That's why any hammer warrior carries Irresistable Blow! [I like Heavy blow over bash simply because it still adds a chunk of damage to the knockdown strike as well as knocking down...]

I am curious, the way people say Hammer Bash > Heavy Blow, does that mean if the enemy Blocks Hammer Bash they're still knocked down? (if so, then yes, I'd go Hammer Bash myself, however, even so, I'd still keep Irresistable because it just freakin' HURTS to get hit by it...)

edit* ah ok, just read that extra post... [i post slow...] makes sense now... Hammer Bash it is... (still, I'd keep Irresistable Around in any case since both Devastating and Bash can be blocked, Irresistable can never be blocked, or dodged)

Nash · Aug 30, 2005, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Nice job on not reading his post.

Yukito Kunisaki · Aug 30, 2005, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

Nice job on not reading his post.

I just missed it damnit...

i eat crap · Aug 30, 2005, 05:17 PM // 17:17

i dont understand why people have to combine hammer warriors with aftershock, ive seen normal hammer warriors do their job just as fast...