Curse

Ishamael Sedai · Aug 29, 2005, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Would these be worth bringing even if we don't have a mesmer with a ton of pts in illusion (preferebly I would like pts in dom & insp)? Would multiple copies work perhaps even on the mo's. I'm just thinking we wouldn't need to cast them right at the beginning of the battle & only need to be hit once with sympathetic to drain a warriors adr.

Sigil · Aug 29, 2005, 04:22 PM // 16:22

The long recharge is the major problem with visage. You can drop a low attrib visage as an adrenaline bomb, but once the enemy wars switch targets they have time to build and spike again before it recharges.

I guess it would really depend on where you're bringing it and what skill you're replacing with it.

LifeInfusion · Aug 29, 2005, 04:54 PM // 16:54

soothing images for adrenaline is better than sympathetic visage.
Visage is an enchantment whereas soothing Images is a hex, there are mroe enchantment removers than hex removers in terms of offensive builds.

BTW use Ignorance to disable signets.

Red Locust · Aug 29, 2005, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Sympathetic visage stays on an ally and is quite easily detectable, so it can be easily avoided by just switching targets. It is an enchantment and it will probably not get removed too quickly, but it is still avoidable.
Soothing images is a hex, sticks to the enemy, and is spammable. Hexes usually get removed right away, but with a 5s recharge, you could keep this baby on a target for a considerable time.

If anything, I'd bring soothing images, but a good prot monk could be just as effective at covering the entire team vs. warriors. Having a mesmer with points in illusion spamming a 10e. hex isn't the most effective solution.

Zeru · Aug 29, 2005, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Visage is one of the best anti-warrior skills (WaM is still unparalleled) because short of rending the target or switching there is not much else someone can do. I don't believe its affect is readily apparent either.

Unlike something like guardian which is thrown on to stop heavy focus visage can be thrown on to stop adrenaline buildup and prevent the adrenaline spike from coming, making it excellent at damage mitigation. Its main strength is that its not a hex/condition, which are easy to remove. Enchantments are not, and while its recharge timer is on that of rend, rend can't be just used to strip this.

LifeInfusion · Aug 29, 2005, 05:12 PM // 17:12

The only downside to Soothing Images is the 10 energy.

Sympathetic Visage is horrible, since the recharge is half a minute.

arredondo · Aug 29, 2005, 05:24 PM // 17:24

With decent stats, SV is 16-18 seconds. No, not long enough to chain successive casts but long enough to get the point across - unless you have an enchant strip, all Warriors need to stay away from an SV target. After that, kite a bit if you need some air until it recharges (which is what you'd do anyway without SV or SI). Here's what SV does well...

- Immediately drains all adrenaline on hit. All but two Axe skills are gimped, and Hammer Warriors have only a couple more than that to choose from in their primary attribute.

- Takes away 3E on EACH hit. That will even cut into a Swordsman's skill selection during an extended melee skirmish.

- Both of these two penalties are AoE! If two Warriors are hammering on a Monk, cast SV on him and they'll never get any adrenaline to use, and -6E to them both each time they swing their weapons together is amazingly effective.

With Soothing Images, you aren't dealing with Sword Warriors at all really, and it requires multiple casts to handle multiple Warriors. With SV, you look for the main target and it affects any Warrior nearby whenever contact is made.

Phades · Aug 29, 2005, 06:15 PM // 18:15

You get the benefit of extended use through enchantment enhancers as well, but typically the warriors will just change targets after the first hit. With soothing it could be removed just like sympathetic, but if it is, then you would end up spending most of your uptime with repeat casts draining out your energy. Unless of course your team was hex loaded allowing freedom to use them as needed, but would still require some monitoring, which would lead to a anti-warrior bias build anway and could possibly include sympathetic visage in the skill set to be used like prot-spirit.

octaviancmb · Aug 29, 2005, 06:45 PM // 18:45

I almost always run Sympathetic rather than Soothing. One of the points of Sympathetic is you get to control who the warriors are pounding on. The fact that smart warriors switch targets is not a drawback at all.

Don't get me wrong, I like both skills; I mean, Soothing Images on a hammer Warrior is just crippling. It's just that when I only have room for one, I always pick SV over SI.

The long cooldown on Sympathetic is able to be mitigated by other Mesmer skills if you choose to do so.

But I much prefer just keeping all the warriors blind to either skill.

cmb

LifeInfusion · Aug 29, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24

octaviancmb, you can't blind as a mesmer.

Sigil · Aug 29, 2005, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

octaviancmb, you can't blind as a mesmer.

Heh, you can blind as a mesmer.

Of the two skills, I prefer Visage also, even with a short duration. The -e component and imediate hammer/axe spike shutdown are unmatched, and honestly I see good teams having far less trouble removing hexes than covered enchants.

It still matters exactly what you want to do and what you're replacing. If all you want is anti-adrenaline either skill will do.

I'm not a huge blind fan, Imho, condition removal is rampant on any decent team. If your monks are unreliable, go w/mo or w/n and carry your own condition removal.

edited on rereading

Mercury Angel · Aug 29, 2005, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

octaviancmb, you can't blind as a mesmer.

Signet of Midnight and Ineptitude inflict blindness, although both cost your elite slot.

ElderAtronach · Aug 30, 2005, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Both only work on noob teams that don't bring condition removal though. They're nice for random arenas.

smurfhunter · Aug 30, 2005, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElderAtronach

Both only work on noob teams that don't bring condition removal though. They're nice for random arenas.

.. especially in tombs where all the eles use draw conditions. i.e. useless elites

Cymmina · Aug 30, 2005, 08:22 PM // 20:22

SV and SI have exactly the same duration, but SI has much quicker recharge. Really, either skill is good to take depending on which effect you prefer. I think I'd only bring one of the two, though.

Also, the description on this site for SI is incorrect. It is an AoE hex, so you *can* have it hit multiple guys. The big advantage for SV is the -energy.

LifeInfusion · Aug 30, 2005, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Angel

Signet of Midnight and Ineptitude inflict blindness, although both cost your elite slot.

oops. I had an idiot moment. I meant as a Mesmer you can't blind effectively.

BTW

Signet of Midnight is touch range.

Ineptitude works AFTER they attack.

Both are ineffective...

Third Quarter · Aug 31, 2005, 04:55 PM // 16:55

I kind of like Sympathetic Visage for the omgwtf factor: if any enemy casters just so happen to be close to the guy who's being hit, their energy goes into the toilet for no discernable reason.

Mercury Angel · Aug 31, 2005, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

oops. I had an idiot moment. I meant as a Mesmer you can't blind effectively.

BTW

Signet of Midnight is touch range.

Ineptitude works AFTER they attack.

Both are ineffective...

No changing your wording, cheater

Blindness is difficult to inflict, and usually tends to be expensive at that, and is EXTREMELY easy to remove.
While you can spam Blinding Flash, that's 15 energy per cast, and 5 energy per removal. Same goes for Glimmering Mark hex and hex removal.
Nobody blinds well enough to warrant using those skills in organized PvP, really.

octaviancmb · Aug 31, 2005, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Yes, yes, conditions are always immediately removed at no cost, and hexes are so easily dispached, one wonders why anyone even plays the game.

</sarcasm>

Sometimes, especially with a Mesmer, one manages the battlefield and creates opportunities that did not earlier exist. Blinding a Warrior almost always gets a response from the person I want responding, which generally means one of many things:

1) The warrior is shut down or stops attacking for enough time for me to exit the immediate vicinity, running like a biatch.
2) The smiter spamming draw conditions not only takes my 147 Backfire damage, but also gets hit with my Fragility (and/or Diversion, depending on how many targets I'm in charge of shutting down). This tends to get noticed, even through Ether Renewal, and is a sign to my teammates to Rend/Virulence/Spike the annoying smiter (whatever build we happen to be running that night).
3) The monk who's removing conditions has his mend ailment diversioned and shut down allowing my team to go crazy with conditional attacks, especially the wonderful conditions Dazed and Weakness.
4) The Arcane Conundrum I placed on the condition remover 8 seconds ago allows me to interrupt their spell, costing them 25 more energy in the bargain, just for trying, and the Warrior's still blind.
5) Insert some other event that I planned on happening in advance, based on whatever skill bar I'm running at the moment and the current state of the battlefield.

So, yes, blind is marginal when you're only hoping to blind. But when used to your advantage, knowing that it almost always gets a certain kind of reaction, the enemy team pays into your hands. When I'm playing a Mesmer, if I get the enemy team to stop playing their game and instead play mine, I win.

And if they don't remove the blindness? Well, I'm just as happy then, too. Well, maybe not just as happy, for they foiled my well-laid plan ("Damn you, oh well-laid plan foilers!!!"), but I'm alive, and in a few seconds I'm back at full power, ready to lay my Mesmer traps again.

And yes, sometimes (rarely, but sometimes), the enemy will do something I did not expect and that I'm not ready to react to. In those moments, I usually die. However, the alteration of one skill on my bar usually wouldn't have saved me in those situations, anyway. Sometimes, you're just owned and have nothing more to say than, "GG."

But this has little to do with Sympathetic Visage and Soothing Images: two great tastes that go great together, but require an unfortunately large amount of real estate on ones skill bar...

cmb