Curse

spiritofcat · Aug 29, 2005, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Using Arcane Mimicry, Arcane Echo and Echo, a mesmer could get three copies of a teammate's elite spell.

There are many interesting possibilities for this, for example, you could:

cast Mark of Protection on three teammates. (No, you couldn't after all. But you could cast three of some other monk spell.)
maintain Spell Breaker on yourself or a teammate for 45 seconds
deal large amounts of damage with Feast of Corruption, Energy Burn etc.

I'm sure there are other possibilites too.

Arcane Echo only works on spells, while the other two work on elites and skills respectively.

You could use Arcane Mimicry and Echo to effectively execute Two Hundred Blades.

Another well known use is Echo and Arcane Echo to cast three Meteor Showers.

For damage dealing, I can't think of anything better than Mind Burn.
Here are the details

Player 1:

Attribs:
Fire: 16
Energy Storage: 15

Skills:
Arcane Mimicry
Echo {E}
Arcane Echo
Glyph of Elemental Power

Player 2:

Attribs:
Fire: 16
Energy Storage: 15

Skills:
Mind Burn {E}
Arcane Echo
Glyph of Elemental Power

Player 1 uses Arcane Mimicry to borrow Mind Burn
Then casts Aarcane Echo, Echo, Mind Burn, Mind Burn, Glyph of Elemental Power, Mind Burn

Player 2 uses Arcane Echo, Mind Burn, Glyph of Elemental Power, Mind Burn

I don't know how much damage Mind Burn deals at levels 16 and 18, but the max listed on the skill description here on GWG is 51 and another 51 if they have less energy than you, which is fairly certain with 15 Energy Storage.

So if it was say, 60 at level 16, and 65 at level 18, that's 120 + 120 + 130 = 370 damage, and set on fire for more than 6 seconds (whatever it is at level 18 fire) from Player 1.
And 120 + 130 = 250 damage, and set on fire for 6+ seconds from Player 2.

Against one target that's 620 damage, plus the burning.

That's with two players.

Now imagine with 4 elementalists, and some monks and warriors to keep them safe...

Up to 1240 damage against one target, or you could split it up amongst the targets.

I don't play much PvP, and I don't know how much damage Air Spike teams used to do, but what I've just described sounds like a LOT of damage potential.

What do you think?

If anyone knows the numbers for Mind Burn at 16 and 18, please post them so I can make fix them in my post.

Eonwe · Aug 29, 2005, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiritofcat

Another well known use is Echo and Arcane Echo to cast three Meteor Showers.

And effectively destroy his energy pool and be useless for the rest of the match.

Quote:

For damage dealing, I can't think of anything better than Mind Burn.
Here are the details

Player 1 uses Arcane Mimicry to borrow Mind Burn
Then casts Echo, Aarcane Echo, Mind Burn, Mind Burn, Glyph of Elemental Power, Mind Burn

So, let me get this staight.... you want to cast arcance mimicry (15 en), then echo (5 en), then arcane echo (15en), then Mind Burn (15en + exhaustion), then mind burn (15 en + exhaustion), then Glyph (5 en), then mind burn (15 En +Exhaustion). Casting three skills that cost 15 energy, and cause exhaustion after you just spent 35 energy getting them is.. well.... retarded to say the least.

Kaospryx · Aug 29, 2005, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiritofcat

Using Arcane Mimicry, Arcane Echo and Echo, a mesmer could get three copies of a teammate's elite spell.

Yes, at the expense of immense energy drain, as well as long cooldown times after the 20 second effects wear off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiritofcat

There are many interesting possibilities for this, for example, you could:[list][*] cast Mark of Protection on three teammates.

Actually, Mark of Protection disables of protection spells for 10 seconds when you cast it, so it will disable the other two when you cast one.

The Arcane Mimicry/Arcane Echo/Echo combination is too energy extensive, too time consuming to pull off, and the effects are too short with long cool down times to be effectve, in my opinion.

spiritofcat · Aug 29, 2005, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Hmmm, good point. I hadn't thought about the energy cost.
But still, the possibility is there.

Echo Showers are used in PvE, so there is no 'rest of the match.'

Eonwe · Aug 29, 2005, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Frankly, no one cares about PvE. Sorry. But if you want to waste 95 energy + exhaustion from 3 skills on top of that, be my guest champ.

spiritofcat · Aug 29, 2005, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaospryx

Yes, at the expense of immense energy drain, as well as long cooldown times after the 20 second effects wear off.

Actually, Mark of Protection disables of protection spells for 10 seconds when you cast it, so it will disable the other two when you cast one.

The Arcane Mimicry/Arcane Echo/Echo combination is too energy extensive, too time consuming to pull off, and the effects are too short with long cool down times to be effectve, in my opinion.

Ah yes, you're right, no mark of protection then.

You could combat the energy problems to some degree using Glyph of Lesser Energy, and Fire Attunement.
You might even be able to use a third player to host Elemental attunement and borrow that with Arcane Mimicry too.

Eonwe · Aug 29, 2005, 03:26 AM // 03:26

You really can't combat the energy problems from using 35 energy to get three exhaustion skills that cost 15 energy and then proceed to use them in succession. Sorry, it's not going to happen.

Kaospryx · Aug 29, 2005, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you mimic a skill, you do not get it at the level that the person that has it originally at, but instead it is based of your level. From what you've said, I get that you are playing a mesmer primary, so you do not have an adequate level of fire magic, even if you are playing a Me/E. If you were to mimic other skills from other professions and other attribute lines, the same problem would arise.

If you are playing a E/Me, you are better off just using Echo/Arcane Echo on one of your own skills, if you are insistent on using three of the same skills.

spiritofcat · Aug 29, 2005, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Eonwe, I don't care that you're in one of the top PvP guilds.
That doesn't give you the right to have such a snobbish and condescending attitude.

I'm making a suggestion here, and looking for feedback.

I don't need you telling me no one cares about PvE, because I know plenty of people who do.

Lay off the attitude and give some constructive criticism or just stop responding since you've got nothing to add to the discussion.

With Fire Attunement on they only cost 10 to cast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaospryx

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you mimic a skill, you do not get it at the level that the person that has it originally at, but instead it is based of your level. From what you've said, I get that you are playing a mesmer primary, so you do not have an adequate level of fire magic, even if you are playing a Me/E. If you were to mimic other skills from other professions and other attribute lines, the same problem would arise.

If you are playing a E/Me, you are better off just using Echo/Arcane Echo on one of your own skills, if you are insistent on using three of the same skills.

You're wrong.
I'm talking about using an E/Me with 16 Fire and 15 Energy Storage, as shown in the detailed example.
The three mesmer skills are all mesmer general, so I don't need any attribute points in mesmer attributes.

White Designs · Aug 29, 2005, 03:41 AM // 03:41

In PvP, it wouldn't work, to be blunt. It's already been covered why.

In PvE, it seems Arcane Mimicry isn't very good. I don't know about you, but back when I played PvE I did it mostly with henchmen or 1-2 friends, and thus didn't really coordinate much of inter-skill teamwork, like you would in PvP. So with Mimicry out of the picture, its really just Arcane Echo/Echo/XXX. Since Ele seems to be the only thing that could do it, Earthquake seems to be the only other thing I can think of to try.

Eonwe · Aug 29, 2005, 03:48 AM // 03:48

What I've posted is constructive, I just don't think you're willing to take any type of negative criticism. It's kind of difficult to post anything constructive at all when you're given a build like that, sorry.

[email protected] · Aug 29, 2005, 03:53 AM // 03:53

A very similar topic was started here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=35248

spiritofcat · Aug 29, 2005, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

What I've posted is constructive, I just don't think you're willing to take any type of negative criticism. It's kind of difficult to post anything constructive at all when you're given a build like that, sorry.

Okay, so you've told me what's wrong with it, without offering any suggestions short of giving up, and each post you made has included some sort of useless inflamatory remark.
That's not what I call constructive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

is.. well.... retarded to say the least.

Frankly, no one cares about PvE.

Sorry, it's not going to happen.

It's kind of difficult to post anything constructive at all when you're given a build like that, sorry.

Eonwe · Aug 29, 2005, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Thanks for taking snippets out of my posts. If your build is total trash, I'm going to tell you it is, sorry. In this case, there are no skills, there are no attributes you can change to make this build anything but complete garbage. I apologize if I come across as being somewhat blunt but unfortunately that's the way it is.

Phades · Aug 29, 2005, 08:30 AM // 08:30

With the meteor shower in triplicate you are looking at 3 minutes of downtime just for exhaustion. That doesn’t count for the 2 minutes that your echos are up and ready, but unable to be used due to the wtfpwnage you just did to your energy bar. 1 copy of meteor shower is doable if you use the elite glyph of energy for the copy casting of meteor shower. Also, spending 21.75 seconds of consecutive casting before the full effect is occurring is rather insane, I mean people bitch about the mage henchmen casting firestorm after the mob is already dead. You would be casting your first meteor shower on already dead mobs.

Iraqalypse Now · Aug 29, 2005, 08:38 AM // 08:38

yea, this build sucks. Its kind of cute, but the best way to go about multiple meteor showers is arcane echo, meteor shower, glyph of sacrifice, instacast echoed meteor shower. Since the arcane echo will wear off before the meteor shower recharges anyhow you can spend an extra 5 energy to shave 4 seconds off the second shower's cast time. This is what I would bring for dias gank or pve, with meteor as well as other fire nukes, and maybe double attunement for energy managment.

yuna of spira · Aug 29, 2005, 09:01 AM // 09:01

i personally see this build as having some potential in ascension type places like UW or FOW. heres why:

why it works in pve: ppl there coordinate their attacks and combos as much as in pvp, as u see smiting teams of 4 or 5 ppl doing well in FOW and UW. there u can recover from exhaustion (though i admit it will take a long time); plus area of effect skills like meteor shower always work better on npc's than in pvp. lightning elite skills might work better however for fow and uw as the creatures have heavy armor. u could take down someone like the 2 lvl 30 dragons in fow quickly with this combo.

why it doesnt work in pvp: as ppl have said, it takes away too much energy. not only is this true but it could also not work at all if the person puts on a monk protect elite skill like mark of protect. also, in pvp, it is all about being able to keep going for long time with same amounts of dmg, as ppl rez others all the time. this is why elems classically dont do well in pvp cuz they waste their energy on killing one person very well and assureadly, however the person they just killed will be rezzed like 4 secs later back to 100% hp and 25% en. this is why i think necs, overall are the best general profession to use in pvp because they can use soul reaping. soul reaping allows my N to go for such long lengths. sry but this build is not exactly appicable to pvp. there are easier ways of pulling major area of effect dmg in a hoh setting.

ElderAtronach · Aug 29, 2005, 09:08 AM // 09:08

You'd be better off going arcane triplicating fireball, to be honest.

IPlayGuildWars · Aug 29, 2005, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Not to mention a monk will heal once the first mind burn goes off.

Kampfkeks · Aug 29, 2005, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Ah well... the arcane triplicaiton has its uses though.
I love stealing 3 random spells from my enemy and blocking a few others with diversion. It is a bit risky but if you're lucky you've just succesfully made a monk stare holes into thin air. Best thing is Arcane Thievery is neither an enchantment nor hex spell so it basically can't be removed.
Combine that with diversion now and then and you've successfully locked down a target and have got enough time to lock down a second one with your remaining spells. Hell, you could even do your team something good with one of those randomspells as some surely work at a low attribute)