Curse

ElderAtronach · Sep 01, 2005, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansamy

I'm there to keep your mesmer busy. Most teams only bring one, and that one is assigned the task of "Shut-down the emo. If there's no emo, shut down the monk." If your mesmer is busy bothering me, he's not bothering my monks.

I think that your logic is flawed, but as long as you're content to *be* mesmer (and warrior, and ranger) bait, then go for it? I guess.

WinterChill · Sep 01, 2005, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Good Topic

I dont understand why you always talk about Diversion, very easy to just cast a not so important spell and then cast the true one. Why dont you suggest skill to counter like Arcane Comedrum and Migraine? I think they work better than diversion.

Kampfkeks · Sep 01, 2005, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Good point there WinterChill. May i edit a quote of your post into the opening post?

Phades · Sep 01, 2005, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Against an e/mo smiter chaining .25 second cast time spells, either of those methods dont really do anything.

Zeru · Sep 01, 2005, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Fear Me doesn't work too well inside a ward against melee+aegis/guardian

Taking more warrior hate wouldn't hurt though.

Just thinking off the top of my head, I would suggest this:
3 monks
2 mesmers/necros (shadow of fear/enfeebling blood/sympathetic visage)
2 hammers with JI
1 ele/monk warder/basic prot.

It's defense heavy, making it more of a holding build than anything else. 2 Hammers will be enough to net kills though, along with part (or all) of the attention of 1 mesmer on a monk or two.

For a mes, something like this:

Diversion
Arcane Echo/other shutdown skill like guilt or p.leak
Edrain
Mantra inscriptions
Signet of humility
Symp visage
Shadow of Fear/Enfeebling Blood
Random skill (res sig i guess cause hammers won't have room).

Winter: You're supposed to spam diversion.

Smiters generally have these skills:
zealots fire
ether renweal
balth aura
draw
reversal
judges insight
aura of restoration
random

The only 'expendable' ones are aura rest, zealots, and judges. Losing one or more of the others is severely gimping their dps.

Sep 01, 2005, 04:32 PM // 16:32

The problem with wards are that they'll outlast you in an energy battle and just keep plowing through. They key is, if you drop a ward, setup as much interference needed to get a lockdown on atleast 2 elmos or get them rended asap and hope your necro wasn't the target of an interrupt. Elmos will happily continue plowing through Ward against Harm/Elements if they know you cant shutdown their engine anyway.

Kampfkeks · Sep 01, 2005, 04:32 PM // 16:32

/edit: I was referring to phades

Well they prolong the casting time which kinda reduces the Damage per second. I'm not sure if those casting thing stacks with renewal to boost the casting time up x4. Could anyone enlighten us on that? As that would severely cut down their damage.

About the ward thing:
Yes they will probably do that, thats a valid point. It should be able to cut down their damage though which is kinda important to not get steamrolled. If its working just a few seconds and if you could use that amount of time to your advantage its worth it. However it might as well backfire (without using the spell at all

) energywise if you don't put it into a good use.
It COULD help though, so it should be named.

ElderAtronach · Sep 01, 2005, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Diversion only works the first time when they're chain-casting, or when they are in the middle of spamming something. Once you hit with diversion, competant E/Mos will be on the lookout, and if you hit them with it again, all they have to do is wait 6 seconds for it to wear off, or sacrifice something non-important to it.

ElderAtronach · Sep 01, 2005, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Fear Me doesn't work too well inside a ward against melee+aegis/guardian Taking more warrior hate wouldn't hurt though.

You apparently haven't faced the
2 E/Mo
2 N/Me
2 Mo/Me
2 W/* (W/Ns can deal with conditions better)

teams that anticipate wards and bring rigor mortis and cover hexes. Heh, ward vs melee/guardian/aegis mean nothing to them, and their warriors will rip whoever's the target a new one in no time. Even if your monks are keeping the focused target alive, they're not going to be able to keep the whole team alive while balth's and zealots are going off constantly.

EDIT: they also bring well of suffering to make you pay for staying in wards. Combine with balths = NASTY.

Sep 01, 2005, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Og the Wards are definetly good, I just needed to point out to people that Wards dont mean you'll auto win vs smiters, which is a mistake most newb teams make-sit in their ward and dont do anything useful. The ward is there to buy you time as well as defense, because El/Mos with energy denial backup are going to destroy you if you sit there.

Phades · Sep 01, 2005, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

/edit: I was referring to phades

Well they prolong the casting time which kinda reduces the Damage per second. I'm not sure if those casting thing stacks with renewal to boost the casting time up x4. Could anyone enlighten us on that? As that would severely cut down their damage.

Seriously, arcane conodrum and migrane actually just create a better rythm for the e/mo spam casting. The after cast time/refresh is the only thing slowing them down really. They are monk spells and you have to treat them as such. Things that hurt or stop monks are what effects them the most. Things like arcane conodrum and migrane only really hurt longer cast times like elementalist or necromancer spells. That kind of setup is trying to create a window for interuption and there is no window with spells that dont really begin in the realm of reality for cast times compared to most other spells. It would be like trying to use something to slow down stance or shout use, it just wouldnt work.

Red Locust · Sep 01, 2005, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElderAtronach

You apparently haven't faced the
2 E/Mo
2 N/Me
2 Mo/Me
2 W/* (W/Ns can deal with conditions better)

teams that anticipate wards and bring rigor mortis and cover hexes. Heh, ward vs melee/guardian/aegis mean nothing to them, and their warriors will rip whoever's the target a new one in no time. Even if your monks are keeping the focused target alive, they're not going to be able to keep the whole team alive while balth's and zealots are going off constantly.

Yes, and convert hexes rips rigor mortis a new one. Especially now that everyone is (or should be) carrying a copy of it since Natures is down. Wards, Aegis and guardian are excellent anti-melee options, they will shut down warrior-heavy teams.

LaGar · Sep 01, 2005, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Just an idea... ppl seems to over look at Ranger/E... Again, this is just an idea. What if.... you focus your ranger more in pet for interrupted... I am not an expert... and i am considering doing this build with other inter.. skills within ranger... I am still a newbie.. and i would like some1 to give me pointer if this is an good idea. The skills are list below...

Predator's Pounce - Pet Attack
Your animal companion attempts a Predator's Pounce that deals +5-17 damage. If that attack hits your animal companion gains 5-41 health.

Charm Animal - Skill
Charm target animal. Once charmed, your animal companion will travel with you whenever you have Charm Animal equipped.

Bestial Pounce - Pet Attack
Your animal companion attempts a Beastial Pounce that deals +5-17 damage. If the attack strikes a foe who is casting a spell, that foe is knocked down.

Disrupting Lunge - Pet Attack
Your animal companion attempts a Disrupting Lunge that deals +1-10 damage. If that attack strikes a foe using a skill that skill is interrupted and is disabled for an additional 20 seconds.

Edge of Extinction - Nature Ritual
Create a level 1-8 Spirit. For creatures within its range, whenever any creature dies, Edge of Extinction deals 14-43 damage to all nearby creatures of the same type. This Spirit dies after 30-126 seconds.

Ferocious Strike - Pet Attack
Your animal companion attempts a Ferocious Strike that deals +13-25 damage. If that attack hits, you gain adrenaline and 3-9 energy.

Zeru · Sep 01, 2005, 05:10 PM // 17:10

No I haven't, but frankly with a build that includes 2 necros I'm really not that scared of it. Anyway 2 mesmers=4 casters gimped pretty badly. Signet of humility/draining/mantra inscriptions will kill the smiters dps, though a bit slowly. You still need to last till the energy reserves are depleted and a few spells now and then afterwards, which is what the wards are for. Diversion spam the other 2.

Btw if you only bring two monks and you're up against 2 hammers....frankly they're not going to life long. With at least 1 person with rend you will be able to get 1 for sure kill. 2 if they don't throw up protective stuff right before the kd chain.

Agreed with blackace that wards are not the end all, just plain good. That's why you bring two mesmers

I don't think the outlined build I made up on the spot is that good but it will be very effective vs the majority of smite teams.

And btw rigor mortis still blows. With NR gone 1 copy of convert hexes isn't a bad idea and every monk should have inspired or smite.

ElderAtronach · Sep 01, 2005, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

Yes, and convert hexes rips rigor mortis a new one. Especially now that everyone is (or should be) carrying a copy of it since Natures is down. Wards, Aegis and guardian are excellent anti-melee options, they will shut down warrior-heavy teams.

Shut down? No. Slow down? Yes. Things like swift chop, irresistable blow, and griffon's sweep to fuel Fear Me still hurt, and if you're running expensive spells like convert hexes and/or healing seed, well... you won't be casting them for long.

ElderAtronach · Sep 01, 2005, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

No I haven't, but frankly with a build that includes 2 necros I'm really not that scared of it

My bad, I had remembered wrong. It was one N/Me and a Me/N. So yeah. :P

Arathorn5000 · Sep 01, 2005, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Just wondering ElderAtronach and BlackAce, what did you think of my build idea here:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=54288

It was supposed to be very resilient to smite teams. Or did you agree that spirits are still too easy to kill even through wards/healing spring/heal area ?

WinterChill · Sep 01, 2005, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Against an e/mo smiter chaining .25 second cast time spells, either of those methods dont really do anything.

Yep but that gonna help you to counter him, ether renewl balthazar aura and zealots fire he neve gonna get the chance to put them again, and since probably your team get some remove enchantaments. In other way you slow down the fire rate not much but its some. Ok this is not a counter, but you can see this like a away to fight against, since this are pretty common spells like plenty of mesmer run. Since im starting to see complete builds adapted to counter smiter... what i want to get with this last comment is that ppl is making this like the Nr times, everyone using nr... Smiter teams is not the same things, the problem that i see with smite is that is TOO MUCH easy to use it than to counter it. If you see, every good standar build have ways to counter smiters but its truly dificult, its more easy to play with smiters than to counter smiters. And what make ppl using smiters like source of damage is the fact that they can deal damage and still use protections/healing. Like the air elemtals you attack them and they only depend of the monks, but smiters you dont get weak point, what you gonna attack? the warriors? the monks? they have 5 chars that can heal/cast protections and if you attack him you can get smited too!

IMHO

Phades · Sep 01, 2005, 11:00 PM // 23:00

The problem is that you are relying on hexes that do not immediately stop the chain of events. When in reality the only chain in the sequence that needs to be stopped is ether renewal. Even then, you still have to hit the elementalist with a distracting shot, disrupting chop, or other method that interupts and adds recharge time. Otherwise you are just wasting 2 slots for what could be achieved with just 1.

Those few tenths of a second are meaningless to the zealots fire power spam, as the alternation between draw conditions and reversal of fortune can have periods when both recycle and are ready at the same time. This is the only period in time where it begins to lose efficiency and when the cast times are slowed down, they do not recycle at the same time as often in practice.

Long story short, you are wasting a eliete and an extra slot that could be doing something useful instead.

Sep 02, 2005, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Migraine and AC are absolute shit vs the smiters. Either get rid of the enchantments continously(good luck) or shut down the engine. Spending time trying to slow down their dps, especially skills that cast in .25 seconds isn't really going to mess them up.