Curse

anti_z3r0 · Aug 19, 2005, 05:33 PM // 17:33

I didn't want to mention this in public, due to not wanting every monk to know... but it is really out of the bag now, and almost every monk has been doing this.

Reversal of Fortune spamming completely owns hammer warriors. As a hammer warrior, I've been trying to figure out any viable counter to this, and the only thing I can think of is to have a mesmer divert the RoF so he can't use it at all. Outside of this, I can't think of anything to do to counter it. Especially a way to counter it using myself, rather than someone else, since I will be with the monk usually alone.

There is no way that I can interrupt that, since it has a 1/4 second casting time. Migraine or Arcane Conundrum won't work either, because it only makes it a 1/2 cast time. The only way to be able to interrupt it is to either have both conundrum AND migraine on them, and still... a 1 second cast time is pretty difficult to interrupt.

So, I have come here to ask for some advice. Maybe get a monk's perspective. Do monks find they run out of energy after spamming RoF a certain number of times? Should I just wait it out and let them keep casting RoF until they run out of energy?

pagansaint · Aug 19, 2005, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Blackout if you are a W/Me or knockdown/aftershock/knockdown/damage/knockdown if W/E

Other than that... get an Interrupt ranger on him spamming interrupts/concussion shot.

Jake · Aug 19, 2005, 05:48 PM // 17:48

RoF is seriously a ridiculously overpowered spell.

Eagle923 · Aug 19, 2005, 05:50 PM // 17:50

What is your secondary? As a monk myself, RoF is always a staple on my skillbar. It is a great spike healer and easily used as a "reaction" heal. I don't quite get what your problem is though, as my biggest fear is a knockdown warrior. A sword/axe guy can pound on me all day. But I can't cast when I'm sucking dirt.

Try using a knockdown and belly smash. If you have a secondary, see if it has any good skills. Backfire OWNS skill spammers (like Orison, Boon or RoF). Many times a mesmer will cast backfire on me and I don't realize it fast enough... an orison, Rof and WoH later I'm dead.

RandomEngy · Aug 19, 2005, 05:54 PM // 17:54

It is pretty harsh on hammer warriors, especially if they use it while running. If it's just you 1-on-1 with a ROF monk, I think he can hold out indefinitely, since it only takes 5 energy. Your best bet by yourself is an attack speed increase skill, as that will give more frequent hits, so fewer will be reversed. Also if you use Devastating + Heavy Blow, delay the Heavy Blow until one hit later, as they can get a reversal in before it connects.

But as a team, you should have more than one person going after this target, giving more hits, many of which are not affected. It also helps if you have idle casters or monks attack the player with a wand to waste some of the RoF casts.

Epinephrine · Aug 19, 2005, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Energy denial, Shame, Mark of Subversion, Diversion, Backfire, Soul Leech... Lots of ways. Knock him down. Repeatedly. Blackout. Don't hit him, just layer degeneration on him. Scourge Healing.

If you are a hammer warrior by yourself? Hard - few people can deal with a monk anyway one on one like that.

Aug 19, 2005, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Charge your adrenaline, bait rof, knockdown chain right after under an attack speed boost.

RandomEngy · Aug 19, 2005, 06:04 PM // 18:04

The main problem is that RoF can be cast in the middle of knockdown chains.

Zeru · Aug 19, 2005, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Yeah, other than Divine Intervention there's nothing else besides Rof that can be put in the middle of a regular kd chain without speed buffs to help stop it by the targeted monk.

I don't usually find this an issue though. The sheer power of the kd chain with JI on you is more than enough to brute force through a single rof unless fertile is up.

Boubou · Aug 19, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22

I love the idea of diversion!

Found out few days ago what it does.. and since then, I love that skill. The centaur outside destiny's gorge are using it, and I noticed I had that on me way after I casted 3 different healing skills..

With some attributes point in that section, you should be able to get few seconds withtout RoF..

anti_z3r0 · Aug 19, 2005, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Running Diversion on a warrior isn't all that great. I'd have to stop and cast it (2 second casting time) and be statted in it for it to be effective. If I stop to cast it, he can just run away.

Also, knockdown chains won't shut it down because they can cast it before you can knock them down again. 1/4 casting time is insane.

I like the idea of holding off on the heavy blow until you hit once normally. This would be me the bonus from heavy blow.

I haven't tested it, but I think you can still cast RoF through a knockdown chain with an attack speed boost.

So I guess the most viable counters for my build would be to trigger the RoF with a normal attack and then use my skills for the extra damage. That, or have monks wand them to try and trigger RoF with the wimpy wand damage.

Neo-LD · Aug 20, 2005, 02:36 AM // 02:36

uhhhhh. Yea I can provide the "monk perspective".

I hate hammer wars. Of all the possible characters to face, it is my least favorite. In the beginning of the match when I scan the enemy's classes, if I see a W/E Im like "awww, hell no!" The reason why I hate them? I cant heal when Im on my ass. I could be sitting there with 40 energy and not be able to do ANYTHING to stop the hammer. At least with other damage classes I can pit heal vs damage, whereas here its nothing vs damage(big damage). No matter how good I am, all they have to do is sit there and charge adrenaline unitil they let loose their chain and solo me from full to 0.

I hear a hint of annoyance that such an unskilled tactic as mashing the RoF button can partially stop your strategy. What I consider an unskilled tactic is default attacking with the space bar for 10 seconds and then hitting 1, 2, 3, 4 and oh look the monk died. Meanwhile the monk has to time a RoF between KDs, and STILL is likely to die cus one RoF isnt enough. Reversal is one of only 3 spells that can even come close to fighting back against such a combo, the others being divine intervention and prot spirit, due to their also 1/4 second casts. Leave it alone.

No combo deserves to be unstoppable. Reversal is the only decent spell that stands in its way, and it can only really be cast once or (maybe) twice during your KD chain. It doesnt deserve to be nerfed. In fact, more than anyting hammers deserve to be nerfed, or monks deserve more options to handle them.

Hammers can still employ various methods of trying to get around RoF. The easiest solution is to just power through it. (another reason I hate hammer wars, even with my perfectly timed RoF between knockdowns I STILL die) The other method is to devote more people to attacking the monk. If a hammer can sometimes solo a monk from full hp, Im sure that RoF wont be enough to stop a hammer + ele or ranger.

knives · Aug 20, 2005, 02:44 AM // 02:44

My prot monk laughs at hammer + sword + axe warriors. Try to sever artery + gash + hamstring? Mend ailment. Try to dismember + axe rake + swift chop? Mend ailment. Try to devastating hammer + crushing blow? Mend ailment.

Mend ailment is my favorite skill. In the lava map I just stand in the lava because mend ailment heals me more, especially if the ranger throws an apply poison on me.

All I do is put on prot spirit, and when I see a warrior coming at me, I get mend ailment ready. Usually warriors need to build up adr. so I put on RoF, run around to wait for recharge (usually by the time its recharged the warriors catch up to me, and then I just put it on, they hit, and I get healed.

Diversion I notice too easily as its purple, my monk enchants are blue, and conditions are yellow. Therefore, the purple contrasts with all the other colors, so I just use shielding hands (long recharge anyways) to divert that. If they are constantly putting that on me, I just use signet of devotion and/or guardian. But hey, what are teh chances of you finding a good mesmer in random/team arena? (I play one for 4v4 team arena, kills casters, but not many people play the mesmer class well :P)

Zeru · Aug 20, 2005, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Yes I'm sure you'll stop a good chain kd by a hammer with JI on them by using mend ailment

Hammers are great in arena. They're great in tombs at the moment too. But when NR gets the well deserved nerf bat, you're going to see heavily buffed axes and swords who pull off utterly absurd amounts of damage that will literally overpower monks.

knives · Aug 20, 2005, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

Yes I'm sure you'll stop a good chain kd by a hammer with JI on them by using mend ailment

Hammers are great in arena. They're great in tombs at the moment too. But when NR gets the well deserved nerf bat, you're going to see heavily buffed axes and swords who pull off utterly absurd amounts of damage that will literally overpower monks.

It stops their kd chain, as it gets rid of the weakness element. And I did say I put prot spirit on before, so if a hammer warrior running JI were to attack me, it wouldn't effect me one bit.

Neo-LD · Aug 20, 2005, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

Hammers are great in arena. They're great in tombs at the moment too. But when NR gets the well deserved nerf bat, you're going to see heavily buffed axes and swords who pull off utterly absurd amounts of damage that will literally overpower monks.

I understand the axe part. But currently I thought swords barely did enough damage to justify using them at all, but now all of a sudden they deal so much they can "overpower monks".... uh, care to elaborate?

Linkie · Aug 20, 2005, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Not all KD chains require weakness. And any decent team can coordinate their spikes with ER.

anti_z3r0 · Aug 20, 2005, 03:42 AM // 03:42

You can't cast Mend Ailment between knockdowns. Someone else can cast mend on you and screw up the chain, but not yourself. The easiest way to counter a hammer war is to just hit the RoF button over and over and over.

Amused Observer · Aug 20, 2005, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle923

What is your secondary? As a monk myself, RoF is always a staple on my skillbar. It is a great spike healer and easily used as a "reaction" heal. I don't quite get what your problem is though, as my biggest fear is a knockdown warrior. A sword/axe guy can pound on me all day. But I can't cast when I'm sucking dirt.

Try using a knockdown and belly smash. If you have a secondary, see if it has any good skills. Backfire OWNS skill spammers (like Orison, Boon or RoF). Many times a mesmer will cast backfire on me and I don't realize it fast enough... an orison, Rof and WoH later I'm dead.

Backfire indeed owns spammers. A 16 dom mesmer can do 147 pts of damage on each spell cast by the victim. That's 1/3 of the caster's HP if he's not aware of the enchantment.

jesh · Aug 20, 2005, 06:21 AM // 06:21

What's wrong with balanced stance? That's why I play a mo/w. And no, I'm not one of those 105 jerk offs. BTW, backfire is a *hex.