Curse

Rieselle · Sep 04, 2005, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Hi, I remember hearing here and there that Hydromancers were pretty useful for PvP, but were shafted by Natures Renewal. Now that NR has been adjusted, does that mean Hydromancers are useful once again?

Apparently the strength of Hydromancers is the "ability to control the shape of the battlefield"... can anyone who knows what that means elaborate on how an effective Hydromancer does this?

Presumably it's the various snares, but apart from the naive "snare people who are running from your Wars", how can Hydro snares be used effectively for other purposes? Does Maelstrom figure into any of this at all?

Lews · Sep 04, 2005, 09:45 PM // 21:45

I hope so. My guild loves Hydromancers, and most of us have all the skills unlocked.

Ollj · Sep 04, 2005, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Water magic supports air magic and gets blown to bits by fire magic in general.

Most skills slow down foes.
That just helps everyone in the own team and really pisses off foes Warriors and almost everyone else.
You can run around them and watch them trying to follow you to get in your range. Than just knock them down with Water Trident.

Rust makes signets kinda useless for 30 seconds, foes will just stand around and die.

Blurred Vision is "the better aegis", it lasts longer, recharges faster and it adds up to all blocking and evading skills!

Maelstrom is the elementalists intterupt skill.

Too many skills are weak against fire damage (except water magic skills that you use with only some Water magic like maelstrom and Ward against Harm) and theres still too much fire damage around to use this without "winter"!

-> Water magic owns smiting builds!

Red Locust · Sep 04, 2005, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Other than its obvious usefulness in relic runs for slowing down runners and bodyblockers, water magic can also be used to keep clusters of enemies together so that you or other eles can get the most effect out of AoEs like fireball, meteor(shower) or maelstrom. It's also a pretty good anti-warrior tool.

Entropius · Sep 04, 2005, 10:39 PM // 22:39

How is the Water line weak against Fire magic? Other than Armor of Frost, there's nothing in there that makes you specifically susceptible to Fire.

In fact, Ward vs Harm is the best anti-fire spell out there.

Ollj · Sep 04, 2005, 10:45 PM // 22:45

look closer

Bast · Sep 04, 2005, 10:55 PM // 22:55

I think he's referring to Ice Prison ending when the target takes fire damage and Armor of Frost increasing the damage you take from fire. I fail to see how this makes Water get "blown to bits" by fire though, since Ice Prison is not modifiable by the enemy team at all (except for hex removal obviously), and Armor of Frost is nowhere near as useful as the other Water spells are.

Kampfkeks · Sep 04, 2005, 10:58 PM // 22:58

With some backup from the Necromancer Line the Hydromancer can even be used for some serious damage. Some Necromancer Hexes are just inviting to abuse the Hydromancer Spells to a high degree.
For example a single Soulbarbs ahead of the battle and your target takes more damage from your waterspells for 30 seconds or until removal. It's lke a cheap +4 buff to your water attribute, hell you could even combine with a glyph of power and awaken the blood... kinda scary at maxed out water and curses levels. And while you are doing AOE-hexes like a madman you could throw in a little Feast of Corruption now and then, really buffing the damage into the realm of insanity.

ElderAtronach · Sep 04, 2005, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Kampfkeks, I love the soul barbs/aoe water hex/FoC idea. I've had an E/N build sitting around that just used soul barbs/water hexes, but used water trident as the elite. Looking at it now, FoC has much more damage potential, and water trident looks... pretty weak actually, in comparison

stryphe · Sep 04, 2005, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

With some backup from the Necromancer Line the Hydromancer can even be used for some serious damage. Some Necromancer Hexes are just inviting to abuse the Hydromancer Spells to a high degree.
For example a single Soulbarbs ahead of the battle and your target takes more damage from your waterspells for 30 seconds or until removal. It's lke a cheap +4 buff to your water attribute, hell you could even combine with a glyph of power and awaken the blood... kinda scary at maxed out water and curses levels. And while you are doing AOE-hexes like a madman you could throw in a little Feast of Corruption now and then, really buffing the damage into the realm of insanity.

Because I killed my ele a long time ago, has anyone tried Spinal Shivers + Water magic?

Use some energy management like Ether Renewel, water attune, or ele attune so that spinal shivers doesn't drain you dry, but it's 40 seconds of interupting bliss if it works.

Zeru · Sep 05, 2005, 05:26 AM // 05:26

If you have a spinal shivers build you need a way to cover the hex and a way to stop any convert hexes from being used (or overpower it).

Water is by far the most useful pvp element because of the battlefield control it gives (earth has several useful spells, aka the absurdly good wards, but not many others). The damage is mediocre, but it offers the most depth of snares and snares are required for most high level pvp builds in order to prevent a team from abusing superior mobility and teamwork on you.

dansamy · Sep 06, 2005, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

With some backup from the Necromancer Line the Hydromancer can even be used for some serious damage. Some Necromancer Hexes are just inviting to abuse the Hydromancer Spells to a high degree.
For example a single Soulbarbs ahead of the battle and your target takes more damage from your waterspells for 30 seconds or until removal. It's lke a cheap +4 buff to your water attribute, hell you could even combine with a glyph of power and awaken the blood... kinda scary at maxed out water and curses levels. And while you are doing AOE-hexes like a madman you could throw in a little Feast of Corruption now and then, really buffing the damage into the realm of insanity.

Ouch! Kill em, why doncha? I think you've outlined very nicely the potential for a hydro in pvp.

Rieselle · Sep 06, 2005, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

The damage is mediocre, but it offers the most depth of snares and snares are required for most high level pvp builds in order to prevent a team from abusing superior mobility and teamwork on you.

What do you mean exactly? How does one play an effective Hydro? What should you look out for, and what should you be trying to do? Is this something that's less useful at lower skill levels, where everyone is everywhere?

Zeru · Sep 06, 2005, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rieselle

What do you mean exactly? How does one play an effective Hydro? What should you look out for, and what should you be trying to do? Is this something that's less useful at lower skill levels, where everyone is everywhere?

Water Trident
Deep Freeze
Ice Spikes
Shard Storm
Ice Prison
Conjure Frost
Water Attunement
Frozen Burst

Those are the skills (or some of) water eles will generally use. When you aren't doing anything you should be wand spamming with the conjure up.

This is not a lower skill level job. To truly make good use of your mobility requires exceptional teamplay which most teams do not have. If you can't do that then the water ele is pretty much useless, unless you are skilled enough to be able to deny enemy mobility (again vs higher level teams).

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 06, 2005, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Hmm, here's my suggestion, not sure if it's an effective battle system, but here's hoping...

8+1 E. Storage
12+1+3 Water
10 Curses

Let's not worry too much about damage and rely on our true duty. NO MOVEMENT FOR J00... The high water stat may do well for damage, but the real reason is that some of those skills cause a longer snare effect then it would be at 12.

Shard Storm
Ice Spikes
Maelstrom
Deep Freeze
Glyph of Energy {E}
Water Attunement
Aura of Restoration / Armor of Mist
Soul Barbs

I was originally thinking Ether Renewal {E}, but the recharge on these things are so long, we're better off with another energy manager with similar recharge, hence the choice of Glyph of Energy {E}. [it also cancels out Maelstrom's Exhaustion, which is always welcome]

With 3 AoE Water Spells (2 being hexes), separating a single target for your team will be quite simple since the enemy will fear getting nailed by an AoE hex. If they don't care about moving like slugs for an extended period of time, hey, you win!

Use Aura in random arena, and Armor when backed by a competent healer.

LordOfNecropolis · Sep 07, 2005, 03:18 AM // 03:18

well i'm very much liking the sound of all this e/n stuff and i just happen to have a lvl 20 e/n but will these tactics work as well in PvE or is this mainly as PVP thing?