Curse

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 20, 2005, 06:57 PM // 18:57

I wonder why nobody mentions warrior spikes? It's too bad really... ;_;

Seeing as that people rave and document the fact that the simple combo of Eviscerate and Executioner's Strike is one of the most devastating 2 hit frenzy combos a warrior can execute. Might as well throw in Swift Chop and Penetrating Blow for 4 hits of doom. In 4 seconds, two warriors can deal well over 700 dmg... If the crits are viable.

If they both critical, which is high in chance due to either runners or 16 axe, that's upwards of 300 dmg each. Just 2 warriors doing it to a target that's enchant stripped and stance denied means instant death.

Seems a lot more convenient and better than 4 eles. Then again, there's too many things going on for it to be perfect but warriors can spike too.

Schorny · Sep 20, 2005, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Seems a lot more convenient and better than 4 eles. Then again, there's too many things going on for it to be perfect but warriors can spike too.

Many things are better than ele spikes

A warrior spike is nice, but harder to coordinate. And if the target is running, the chance to hit at the same time isn't that high.

So I wouldn't make a warrior spike team. Allthough if you can manage it, that spike is surely devastating. But very easy counterable with things like soothing images and sympathetic visage. Even if you strip them right away, you lost all your adrenaline...

tuperwho · Sep 20, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker

back to the topic...

Aftershock - Spell 10 3/4 10
Nearby enemies are struck for 26-85 damage. Knocked down characters are struck for 10-56 additional damage.

If one could ensure that targets are knocked down this would be an AOE of 141 and done twice would result in 282 AOE damage in 1.5 seconds. I think this spike would take two people... one to do the knock down (hammer warrior) and the other to do the double cast of Aftershock.

I am thinking of starting an Ele, and was thinking of trying out aftershock preceeded by earthquake. It's in the same attribute, and wouldn't it ensure the knockdown? Thus, a single ele can easily do 226 damage with those 2 skills alone.

smurfhunter · Sep 20, 2005, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

I wonder why nobody mentions warrior spikes? It's too bad really... ;_;

Seeing as that people rave and document the fact that the simple combo of Eviscerate and Executioner's Strike is one of the most devastating 2 hit frenzy combos a warrior can execute. Might as well throw in Swift Chop and Penetrating Blow for 4 hits of doom. In 4 seconds, two warriors can deal well over 700 dmg... If the crits are viable.

If they both critical, which is high in chance due to either runners or 16 axe, that's upwards of 300 dmg each. Just 2 warriors doing it to a target that's enchant stripped and stance denied means instant death.

Seems a lot more convenient and better than 4 eles. Then again, there's too many things going on for it to be perfect but warriors can spike too.

too many things gimp warrior builds to make this work. one ward against melee and it wont work. you cant just 'spike' a target without acually building up adrenaline for awhile. if i see someone getting attacked by a warrior, well, you throw prot spirit on him and seed him. i just dont see it working. it kind of defeats the purpose of a real spike, which is a large amount of damage deilverd almost instantaneoulsy to a tagret that has no idea hes about to just die.

not to mention you have to be near your target for a warrior spike, which means you can just run/snare warriors and you'll never get a spike off.

i dont think warriors can spike. and anyway that combines my two most hated things in the game: warriors and spiking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuperwho

I am thinking of starting an Ele, and was thinking of trying out aftershock preceeded by earthquake. It's in the same attribute, and wouldn't it ensure the knockdown? Thus, a single ele can easily do 226 damage with those 2 skills alone.

and yes actually this combo is fun if you just catch a team unawares with it. i doubt it can work for an actual spike team because you have to be near people for aftershock to work. maybe if one ele does earthquake while the other use obs flame. just a thought ^^

Ensign · Sep 20, 2005, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

cry of frusration and res sig are probably the best counters to an ele-spike.

Don't leave Distracting Blow off of that list. I've been on an IWAY team that savagely owned an air gank team by using a Distracting Blow every time they tried to spike. They never got a single one off and we took the flawless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

or just attacking them with aoes while they stand in place spiking. shielding hands, aegis, guardian, healing seed > ranger spiking but its never that easy >.<

Aegis is a great pre-emptive defense against the spike, but it'll get pulled off by the good teams right before the spike. Healing Seed takes too long to cast to stop a spike. Guardian and Shielding Hands are gold, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

I wonder why nobody mentions warrior spikes? It's too bad really...

It's because more than two Warriors on the same target is more trouble than it's worth. If a target starts kiting even putting two Warriors on the same target can be a pain, as those Warriors body block each other as they chase him around. After two on the same target you have hard diminishing returns from body blocking.

Hence, when it comes to degenerate spiking builds Warriors are left out because they just can't do it. However, if you want to use a Warrior or two to finish off targets at half health, they'll give you the strongest spike in the game. In other words they're great for finishing with their one second Eviscerate (or Final Thrust) spike, but they can't drop someone from full to 0 in a second.

Peace,
-CxE

smurfhunter · Sep 20, 2005, 11:04 PM // 23:04

you got it all in one again

only thing i might add is that healing seed is theoretically feasible since you have 2 heal monks, one can seed and one can use like heal other. but by the time you get it off either the targets dead of theyre not attacking so it doesnt quite matter.

oh and wow that just clicked... flawless on an iway? you gotta be kidding me

Akhilleus · Sep 21, 2005, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

I wonder why nobody mentions warrior spikes? It's too bad really... ;_;

Seeing as that people rave and document the fact that the simple combo of Eviscerate and Executioner's Strike is one of the most devastating 2 hit frenzy combos a warrior can execute. Might as well throw in Swift Chop and Penetrating Blow for 4 hits of doom. In 4 seconds, two warriors can deal well over 700 dmg... If the crits are viable.

If they both critical, which is high in chance due to either runners or 16 axe, that's upwards of 300 dmg each. Just 2 warriors doing it to a target that's enchant stripped and stance denied means instant death.

Seems a lot more convenient and better than 4 eles. Then again, there's too many things going on for it to be perfect but warriors can spike too.

one of the best "spike" teams, and 4 man pvp team combos avilable period is a spirit/disrupt ranger, a sword warrior, an axe warrior and a hammer warrior.
think about it for 15 secconds and im pretty sure you can figure out why; its an especially deadly combo vs casters.

...15 secconds later...

in case you didnt figure it out:
a winnowing+energyzing winds+frozen dirt+distract ranger hurts casters; but hurts them 10X more when paired with 3 warriors.
if you have an aoe KD warrior you have the capability of keeping thier team seperated, allowing you so easily gank the crap out of one player at a time, and to keep thier heavy duty players on the floor
if you have an axe warrior you have an excellent person for inflicting status effects and anti-caster ability (disrupting chop is one of the few skills better than distracting shot, particularly because it doesnt have a "fly-time"), and as previously mentioned eviscerate+executioners=deadly
and a sword warrior is unparralled as a hunter; great for running behind the lines, and getting that special someone to run in horror, with galrath,final strike, hamstring and rush (very deadly vs casters who use sup runes)

Iraqalypse Now · Sep 21, 2005, 04:34 AM // 04:34

the trick to warrior spiking with a 2 warrior team is to run a pair of axe warriors, and be rediculously ninja-like with target switching.... heres an ascii diagram:

^
| guy you are chasing
|
go this way ------> * guy standing still
^^
| | warriors
| |

and evis + executioners, or whatever, on the non-kiting target.

Oh, and BTW, aoe knockdown isn't that good... you want devastating hammer for a vicious knock-lock on an off target monk or whatnot... hammers are better for hunting, swords are what you use when your elite slot is used for something that isn't devastating hammer or eviscerate.

energizing wind is warrior and ranger hate, not casters... QZ is caster hate, and predatory season is a must in a no monk group with all physical damage....

Akhilleus · Sep 21, 2005, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iraqalypse Now

Oh, and BTW, aoe knockdown isn't that good... you want devastating hammer for a vicious knock-lock on an off target monk or whatnot... hammers are better for hunting, swords are what you use when your elite slot is used for something that isn't devastating hammer or eviscerate.

energizing wind is warrior and ranger hate, not casters... QZ is caster hate, and predatory season is a must in a no monk group with all physical damage....

the point is the hammer keeps thier caster on the floor.
and as for QZ being the hate of casters, that is where you are wrong in my opinion; look at the type of ranger im suggesting: spirit+disrupt ranger aka distracting shot, concussion shot, cholking gas+energyzing winds, is the deathknell to any character that uses skills with long recharge/caste times, especially if you have warriors with distracting spells.
yeah, quickening zephyr eats thier mana, which hurts, but energyzing winds allows you to interupt the crap out of thier spells, and the ones that arent interupted, will take longer to recharge.
ie no more spammable low-energy 10-seccond-cooldown spells (notice it only lowers energy cost to minimum of 10).
quickening zephyr is great when you're facing high-cost spells, the problem is, for most casters (even eles) mana cost is a serious concern, and many of thier spells are in the 10-15 mana range because of it; meaning they usually wont recieve much of a bonus from energyzing winds. in contrast, high powered 60 seccond cooldown skills are a blast with quickening zephyr, even for the added mana cost.