Curse

Cymboric Treewalker · Sep 19, 2005, 03:43 PM // 15:43

What is considered good spike damage?

And on that topic how many hitpoint does the GvG guildlord have?

Makkert · Sep 19, 2005, 04:56 PM // 16:56

good spike damage?
i'd say good spike damage is:
A) in one blow enough to kill the target. since most players have around 450-550 hp, you should deal that amount of damage to them.
B) delivered in a very short time.

guildlord: no idea.

Cymboric Treewalker · Sep 20, 2005, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makkert

good spike damage?
i'd say good spike damage is:
A) in one blow enough to kill the target. since most players have around 450-550 hp, you should deal that amount of damage to them.

So are there any combinations that do 450-550 points of damage in ONE blow? I know some combos can get to half of that... but one blow?

Schorny · Sep 20, 2005, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker

So are there any combinations that do 450-550 points of damage in ONE blow? I know some combos can get to half of that... but one blow?

Grenths?

But consider 5 obsidian flames. That's hell a lot of damage in one blow.
You can spike with nearly everything that does good damage.

Nowadays FoC spikes seem to be cool. Also ranger spikes are _really_ annoying.

Alone) · Sep 20, 2005, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Can anyone explain to me what spike damage is actually? I'm still new to terms on Guild Wars. heck I still don't know what PvE means.

sly_1 · Sep 20, 2005, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker

So are there any combinations that do 450-550 points of damage in ONE blow? I know some combos can get to half of that... but one blow?

There is nothing one player can do to kill another player in less time than a good monk can heal (within about 1 second).

It usually takes the coordination of 4+ people to spike for 500+ dmg in <1 second.

@ Alone): A damge spike is exactly what it sounds like: a huge amount of damage infliced all at one time. For example, if you have 5 air ele's on a team and they all simultaneously cast "chain lightning" with 16 in air magic at one foe, they will "spike" the target for like 700 ish damage, enough to kill most caracters instantly.

Spike damage is a method used in PvP to kill people before the monks on their team have a chance to heal the damage.

Ristaron · Sep 20, 2005, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Of course, having 5 Eles doing 700 damage is overkill and is scornable =P

Entropius · Sep 20, 2005, 04:56 AM // 04:56

For those who don't know, the best counter to conventional spike damage is the Monk skill Protective Spirit, which caps the amount of damage you can take at once to 10% of your maximum life.

This is why good spikers use Lingering Curse or Rend Enchantments as part of their spike, however, meaning you may have to get nasty and apply Spellbreaker as well.

heist23 · Sep 20, 2005, 05:06 AM // 05:06

agreed, spellbreaker can help in self-preservation against spike teams....for a while. last time i checked, it only lasts for 15 seconds at divine favor at 12, i think. unless you use something like blessed aura, it won't help much in the long run, even then. it is a pretty nice spell, though. maybe one monk could bring along spellbreaker while other people could bring obsidian flesh...if you're running a earth spike build, of course. otherwise it's just impractical.

Entropius · Sep 20, 2005, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Spellbreaker's really only needed if they focus on one target and don't let up, stripping protective enchantments you put on them, or constantly draining energy. It's the unstoppable panic-button "Leave this guy ALONE!" spell.

Barring an absolutely massive assault involving multiple attackers combined with Lingering Curse, "conventional" defense (prot spirit for Ele spells, shielding/seed for rangers/smite) plus good heals should keep someone up for as long as the monks have juice.

Ensign · Sep 20, 2005, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Entropius

For those who don't know, the best counter to conventional spike damage is the Monk skill Protective Spirit, which caps the amount of damage you can take at once to 10% of your maximum life.

Protective Spirit is a solid skill, granted, but I couldn't disagree more. A good spike is always acompanied by enchantment removal, making pre-cast Protective Spirits marginal at best. In addition, using Protective Spirit reactively means that you're going to be getting it up *after* many of the heavy hits land. The tighter the spike, the worse Protective Spirit is.

No, the best counter to caster spike builds is sticking a Mesmer in one of their faces and never letting him get off a single spell that matters.

For a perfect example, look at the good, pure spike builds from the peak of Chain Lightning spiking days - 4 Air Elementalists, 1 Necro with Lingering Curse, and 3 Monks. Lingering Curse followed by four copies of Chain Lightning would deal 560 damage to any caster, enough to drop him from full health without any issues. Curse got rid of any enchantment defenses like Protective Spirit that might have mattered. Trying to fight the Lingering Curse for the spike was fruitless. However, if you took a Mesmer and stuck it in an Ele's face, their spike no longer hit for 560, but 420. No one cares about a pure spike for 420 because that isn't going to kill anyone.

I don't want to discount the value of ninja Protective Spirits. It's a good skill when there's a lot of spike around. But nothing beats shutting down a piece of their spike.

Peace,
-CxE

cookiehoarder · Sep 20, 2005, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Entropius

For those who don't know, the best counter to conventional spike damage is the Monk skill Protective Spirit, which caps the amount of damage you can take at once to 10% of your maximum life.

This is why good spikers use Lingering Curse or Rend Enchantments as part of their spike, however, meaning you may have to get nasty and apply Spellbreaker as well.

I remember when Air spikers just couldn't face the fact that they weren't Fotm anymore and brought a necro for rends. Never worked XD

thefox · Sep 20, 2005, 02:46 PM // 14:46

I can hardly remember who runs Air spike nowadays...
Rangers spike becomes more common

Scaphism · Sep 20, 2005, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by thefox

I can hardly remember who runs Air spike nowadays...
Rangers spike becomes more common

Food for thought: Ranger damage was toned down before retail (in addition to the universal lessening of damage). Elementalist damage has been crap for a long while, but that doesn't stop people from playing what they want to play.

Cymboric Treewalker · Sep 20, 2005, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

Grenths?

But consider 5 obsidian flames. That's hell a lot of damage in one blow.
You can spike with nearly everything that does good damage.

Nowadays FoC spikes seem to be cool. Also ranger spikes are _really_ annoying.

I am talking about one person... doing one spell or combo to get xxx damage. 5 Obsidian Flames would not qualify... but may be a good spike damage from a team.

Cymboric Treewalker · Sep 20, 2005, 04:20 PM // 16:20

back to the topic...

Someone brought up chain lightening...

Chain Lightning - Spell 10 2 20
Target foe and up to two other foes near your target are struck for 10-82 lightning damage. This spell has 25% armor penetration and causes exhaustion.

so at peak this is going to do 82 with 25% penetration take 2 seconds to cast... and 20 seconds to reset.

another person mentioned Obsidian Flame...

Obsidian Flame - Spell 5 2 5
Deal 22-94 damage to target foe. This spell ignores armor but causes exhaustion

That will do 94 and ignore armor. Sounds a bit better since it costs 5 and resets in 5 seconds.

so Obsidian Flame equiped by a E/Me could be done twice in a row... for 188 damage (if at maximum) and it would take roughly 4 seconds (not including the time to use Archane Echo since the target wouldn't know about the incoming yet).

Of real interest... in the earth line again is:

Aftershock - Spell 10 3/4 10
Nearby enemies are struck for 26-85 damage. Knocked down characters are struck for 10-56 additional damage.

If one could ensure that targets are knocked down this would be an AOE of 141 and done twice would result in 282 AOE damage in 1.5 seconds. I think this spike would take two people... one to do the knock down (hammer warrior) and the other to do the double cast of Aftershock.

Would those be good spike numbers?

The New Guy · Sep 20, 2005, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

Grenths?

But consider 5 obsidian flames. That's hell a lot of damage in one blow.
You can spike with nearly everything that does good damage.

Nowadays FoC spikes seem to be cool. Also ranger spikes are _really_ annoying.

do u mind sharing what those spike ranger skills are?

dargon · Sep 20, 2005, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Distracting Shot, Savage Shot, Punishing Shot, all with kindle, possibly accompanied by winnowing and favorable winds.

The 3 interrupts can all be fired in about 2 seconds. Get 3 or 4 rangers with the same or similar build together and you have a rather screwed target.

Schorny · Sep 20, 2005, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker

I am talking about one person... doing one spell or combo to get xxx damage. 5 Obsidian Flames would not qualify... but may be a good spike damage from a team.

_You_ may talk about 1 person. But there is no chance one person can instantly kill someone.

A spike consists of more ppl firing at one target to instantly kill it.

@Cymboric Treewalker:
in theory an aftershock spike is very high. But in normal PvP people may fall one time for it. But after that they will spread out. And you also need one character at close range to cast aftershock...

Indeed you need more people at close range, because 140 damage to everyone isn't that good. Sure it's much damage, but if you don't kill someone it's mostly useless.

smurfhunter · Sep 20, 2005, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

But nothing beats shutting down a piece of their spike.

cry of frusration and res sig are probably the best counters to an ele-spike. or just attacking them with aoes while they stand in place spiking. shielding hands, aegis, guardian, healing seed > ranger spiking but its never that easy >.<

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scaphism

Food for thought: Ranger damage was toned down before retail (in addition to the universal lessening of damage). Elementalist damage has been crap for a long while, but that doesn't stop people from playing what they want to play.

haha anet keeps nerfing rangers. i think its about time they finally got it right and nerfed them straight to hell so that each bow has a 10 minute refire time and they do a maximum of 2 damage, and interupts have a 60% chance of failing