Curse

ElderAtronach · Sep 16, 2005, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

you are going to get hammered against an IWAY team, as well as basically losing every corpse. without putrid or consume, you have no way of denying massive amounts of corpses from groups (like IWAY) which really need them. you can use consume corpse as energy management instead, although i agree it isnt very efficient.

IWAY doesn't need "corpses", it just needs "dead allies". Just wanted to point that out, as they don't need to rely on fresh corpses or whatnot.

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 16, 2005, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Unless the target has Spell Breaker, Rend Enchantments alone on my W/N is enough to turn an E/Mo into chopped beef...

Now if it's 4 smiters, then we've got a problem. Enchant removal isn't fast enough to clobber them all [Oath Shot Rend anyone?]

zehly · Sep 16, 2005, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Necromancer with Well of Profane works wonders on smite builds.

wsmcasey · Sep 16, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Anything that would cause health degen / conditions including interupts, or enchantment striping. The smiting build is based primarily on taking physical damage and has a difficult time dealing with conditions like poison and bleeding.

smurfhunter · Sep 16, 2005, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I find it kinda funny that you point this out like it's special in some way, when in fact it happens *in every single match* with a famous guild. One team is famous, one team holds - and the third team plays kingmaker so they can go and tell stories about how they screwed over sB or iQ or whoever else happens to be in the hall that day.

The last half dozen times I've been in hall, the third team has run straight past the dais and attacked us. It's hard enough to hold in a 16v8 situation, let alone take. I'm sure people get their kicks out of playing kingmaker - but it's yet another frustrating hurdle to overcome if you're unwilling to smurf.

LOL actually we were up against two 'famous' teams, both were pugs but they all knew each other like they were in bed together the night before. and we were in the defending position, and we were the ones to get ganked, but what makes me feel special was that at like 45 seconds to go i grabbed a profane and lingering and the ghost fell like a rock

(i was playing necro - dont get confused, we lost the hall alright. i just screwed over the sB team

)

made me feel good inside for like 5 mins lol. soo much more fun to play at 6 am. hench ftw!

twicky_kid · Sep 16, 2005, 11:03 PM // 23:03

arcane conundrum shuts ele/mo down completely. they can get off about 3 spells before ether runs out.

Phades · Sep 16, 2005, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Arcane conundrum does virtually nothing to skills with a .25 use. Migrane with arcane conundrum barely makes me notice there is in fact a casting time and makes alternating spells even easier, due to the slightly slower cast time offseting the refresh time of the alternate spell. Yeah, they would be reasonably annoying with balthazars, zealots, renewal, or any other spell that has a cast time in real numbers. Then again, you are just making a class that is used to 3-5 second cast times, use them with what would normally be 1s cast times....

twicky_kid · Sep 16, 2005, 11:28 PM // 23:28

conundrum does alot i use it often. ele/mo never bring hex removal (at least any i've seen) so you know it will most likely stay on them. conundrum does something most people never even think about. what happens when you cast a spell? you stop. now with smiters they can cast their 1/4 and 1 sec spells and start running again. conundrum makes them stand in place twice as long allowing your team to unload.

also remember this is just one spell that's a wrecking ball for this build imagine the rest of my bar.

diversion completely stops them b/c most smiters are not smart enough to notice what hexes are really on them while they are spamming for dmg.

smurfhunter · Sep 17, 2005, 03:09 AM // 03:09

no, actually conundrum is best used on a necro. that way your necro can be almost guaranteed of getting every single corpse, unless its removed. using it on an emo wont do much to shut them down long term, and it wont help *that* much in the short term (while it lasts), since almost all the skills are < 1 second.

(it works so well on necros because they absolutely need that speed on corpse spells, but aside from that well of profane has a 3 second cast time. with conundrum its like 6 seconds, making it completely useless. if theres a corpse 6 seconds after something dies, you need to get rid of your own necro. things like putrid will have a 2 second time which is more than enough for your team to get it. traversal/consume may be more difficult but they wont hurt your team at all.)

so all in all, conundrum is best on a necro. ofcourse im not against putting it on a HEAL monk (prot spells are just too fast for this to work), but then just a stand alone conundrum wont do much, you need the mesmer with things like power drain/power block etc for that to make a difference.

and this is something i also noticed: there is absolutely no point in starting with conundrum or basing a build around it. if you put conundrum on a necro first thing in a match, well, its wasted. nothing is going to matter in the first like 20 seconds, and if something does you get 1 free well. big woop. you should try and put it on the necro about half way thru the match. its surprisingly ugly then, by that time things will be dropping, and with him disabled you can effectivley follow a 1 monk lead to a victory if you know how to use the wells.

on altar maps this is pure bliss: take for example the hoh map: at 45 seconds to go you put conundrum on the necro, and attack the ghostly. as soon as the buffs go up on him attack the nearest tank thats on the altar. who cares what team hes on, just kill something on that altar. now you can safely put down a profane, put down lingering on the ghostly and now heal other will heal him for as much as orison does, with no protective buffs. = owned

now im simplifying this alot, i know in game theres like a zillion things going on and its not as easy as it sounds. and theres about 3 necros in the map, i kinda left out the third team. so all in all, its not a sure victory, nothing is. but its still a viable strategy ^^

twicky_kid · Sep 17, 2005, 04:39 AM // 04:39

conundrum isn't the one and true answer i agree but it stems the tide so to speak.

diversion is the only real answer to completely shut down an ele/mo.

once you add 30 sec recharge to their main spam skills then they will fall like a brick

Phades · Sep 17, 2005, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

conundrum does alot i use it often. ele/mo never bring hex removal (at least any i've seen) so you know it will most likely stay on them. conundrum does something most people never even think about. what happens when you cast a spell? you stop. now with smiters they can cast their 1/4 and 1 sec spells and start running again. conundrum makes them stand in place twice as long allowing your team to unload.

Trying to argue use for something that doesnt have a noticeable effect over the issue of spot casting use opposed to spam casting, is this your arguement? If the smiter has to move, that is causing more downtime than any amount of migrane/conodrum will cause. Having both hex types on, ive yet to even see a casting bar with the snap casting spells.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

also remember this is just one spell that's a wrecking ball for this build imagine the rest of my bar.

Unless i need to cast ether renewal, i frankly dont care if that particular hex is on me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

diversion completely stops them b/c most smiters are not smart enough to notice what hexes are really on them while they are spamming for dmg.

Actually diversion hurts them because when the hex lands, chances are the individual has already pressed the button to cast something else and has virtually zero time to abort the casting. I dont think you are getting how the build works, cause it would be very similar to using a warrior, if you had to push a button to make every basic attack occur while under frenzy.

smurfhunter · Sep 17, 2005, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

conundrum isn't the one and true answer i agree but it stems the tide so to speak.

diversion is the only real answer to completely shut down an ele/mo.

once you add 30 sec recharge to their main spam skills then they will fall like a brick

once again not entirely true, if an emo smiter is completely locked down from that a quick morale boost can save you. (not to mention its partially the emos fault for getting caught like that) rend is far more effective, theyre forced to sit around until the enchants come back or they get theyre energy back. and repeatedly rending them is just funny

Kellogs · Sep 18, 2005, 07:01 PM // 19:01

I usually find Lingering rend and drain enchant on a n/me do the trick...

audioaxes · Sep 18, 2005, 08:10 PM // 20:10

i have a r/me draining build that can put e/mo's to their knees even with ether renewel. If i can stay on them uninterrupted, theyll never get off another balth aura.

twicky_kid · Sep 18, 2005, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

once again not entirely true, if an emo smiter is completely locked down from that a quick morale boost can save you. (not to mention its partially the emos fault for getting caught like that) rend is far more effective, theyre forced to sit around until the enchants come back or they get theyre energy back. and repeatedly rending them is just funny

until you kill yourself from the rend

hexes are hard to see the icons and know what's really on you. ele/mo are dumb people b/c the build is easy to use so it will be used by more dumb people.

conversion will shut down their spamming spell for at least 3 sec if they don't cast during that time (which they will probly have it in que by the time you cast on them) and 30+ sec if they do fire it off. no spam no dmg.

smurfhunter · Sep 19, 2005, 12:34 AM // 00:34

rend never killed anyone yet. at a maximum of likr 200 damage, it can provoke an ouch. but unless someone is actively watching you to 'jump in' and kill you right as you rend... well thats just fantasy. and no, i would never use rend if like 3 warriors attacked. thats when you run. the slow recharge on rend leaves way more than enough time for people to heal you.

and as to wether the emos see the hexes or not depends entirely on the person playing it. rend depends entirely on your willingness to hit the corresponding shortcut key. you choose.

knives · Sep 19, 2005, 12:41 AM // 00:41

1 efficient mesmer can destroy a smite group.

CAT · Sep 19, 2005, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Well, IMO saying a mesmer is a counter to something is unfair. Mesmers can basically counter ANYTHING as long as their build is right. (air ele spellbreaker spiker maybe not, but give me a break).

Best non mesmer counter that can be fit into any build is lots of enchantment stripping, well of the profane disrupts some of his enchantments as well as stops his RoF. Basically if you have a necro unless its doing tainted or lingering(martyr/plague sending for instance, or spitefull) just have him babysitting the ele doing corpse explotation and stripping his enchants. Once, as a mesmer/necro i rended the smiters zealots+ether renewel followed by a backfire, then watched him kill himself under backfire trying to smite w/o zealots.

Mr Jazzy · Sep 19, 2005, 05:18 AM // 05:18

rend enchantments

smurfhunter · Sep 19, 2005, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAT

Once, as a mesmer/necro i rended the smiters zealots+ether renewel followed by a backfire, then watched him kill himself under backfire trying to smite w/o zealots.

i applaud that emo. he is trully one of a kind. i expect after that he went and tried a sword warrior with mending and orison in tombs