Curse

Lasareth · Sep 24, 2005, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Well, there's credit to the discussion following the OP, even if the OP is well... wrong.
Discussion is always good

Fanta · Sep 24, 2005, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice Blessings

I think my build is still extreemly good.

Hexs like phatasmy or conditions like bleeding, I can't remove them, but I can negate them with healing breeze (duh, you forgot to look at that?)
If my energy was 0, my siggy of devotion helps a ton.

Peace and Harmony doesn't suck as it negates the energy drain from Boon so I can still have 4 energy regen.

People are forgetting, if hexs and conditions can QUICKLY be put on someone, then tey can be quickly added when you take them off costing you more energy. Rather I just heal them 200+ Per cast than try to sit there and get them off each time.

As for those who say I suck, lol.. wait till they add a 1 on 1, you'll never kill me. And I will challenge even a mesmer.

But its funny, most who critize my build probably has never tried it.

Don't forget either, my attribute poitns are MAXED out instead of throwing like 50 points on OoB or Energy Drain. Which makes me cure and heal for even a more maxed out rate. I do know what i'm talking about.. I was just trying to help out monks but if you guys think sitting and removing 100 conditions that can be put on 1 person in 5 seconds, go ahead.. its no wonder people die.

~Ice Blessings~

hahah dude ull even challenge a mesmer?? u and me 1v1 anyday buddy, ull drop in under a minute with me playing a mes (how i wish i could 1v1 noobs), ur build is complete stupity trying to be played off as some godly build. i think i might have some rusty razors in my closet, great for cutting flesh near the wrists... i'd be glad to let you have them

Savio · Sep 24, 2005, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasareth

Well, there's credit to the discussion following the OP, even if the OP is well... wrong.
Discussion is always good

That's about the only reason to keep this thread open. I find this interesting because I just recently started a monk. Eventually though it'll degenerate because the OP insists that his build is good, and others will have to flame back.

Also to add something constructive, having maxed out attributes doesn't always help. By dropping one or two attribute levels you can gain a pretty decent third line. Comparing that to the benefit of having one more level in an attribute, you really don't need to have maxed Healing or whatnot.

And please, not Rebirth. Waste of time, waste of energy in any sort of battle situation, PvP or PvE. Yes, let's res the Monk...now they can't use any skills for some time or have energy...not to mention *your* energy loss...GG.

Makkert · Sep 24, 2005, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Rebirth is a good res for PvE.
I found the ressing that prevented aggro many times valuable.
lose situation --> run --> rebirth
yes, it isn't fast ressing. but if you are ressing one by one after running from aggro, that isn't a real problem.

as for ressing the monk, use a signet. having to wait 8 secs till the monk is up again in a battle is to long.

Savio · Sep 24, 2005, 08:47 AM // 08:47

The only problem I have with Rebirth PvE-wise is when a Monk decides to do it during a battle...to another Monk. I've been in SF so many times and this is all I see. Used correctly while *not* fighting, yes it helps.

UltimaXtreme · Sep 24, 2005, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Energy drain is very unreliable and requires that you take your focus off healing, find a caster, drain them, back to party bar again.

push "c" you turd

oh, and about mend ailment and condition removal.... you will end up healing A LOT more then instead having the condition removed immedietly.

Fanta · Sep 24, 2005, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltimaXtreme

push "c" you turd

oh, and about mend ailment and condition removal.... you will end up healing A LOT more then instead having the condition removed immedietly.

lol whats up kaizen, didnt know you set noobs in there place here too :P

KaPe · Sep 24, 2005, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

And please, not Rebirth. Waste of time, waste of energy in any sort of battle situation, PvP or PvE. Yes, let's res the Monk...now they can't use any skills for some time or have energy...not to mention *your* energy loss...GG.

Wrong. First of all, in PvE, people shouldn't die in the first place, so if they do, something is *very* wrong, meaning it's quite likely that you will have to run. Later, it's all about resing *and* bringing them close to you, so you can keep them out of mobs range. Resing in middle of battle is waste of time anyway, except for signet, since you should focus on healing, to prevent more deaths.

Makkert · Sep 24, 2005, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

The only problem I have with Rebirth PvE-wise is when a Monk decides to do it during a battle...to another Monk. I've been in SF so many times and this is all I see. Used correctly while *not* fighting, yes it helps.

argument flawed mostly.
A res like Restore Life is almost just as terrible if used by a monk during a fight.
both should simply not be happening. To list wrong plays of players as an argument is not a strong case.

funbun · Sep 24, 2005, 01:59 PM // 13:59

You should start up a Monk Academy like Lady Blue Steel's Runner Academy.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=56099

Also, Healing isn't the only kind of monk out there. Use a protection monk to serve as the medic. They reduce dmg taken, debuff, and res. That let's the main healer do nothing but heal.

9th Requiem · Sep 24, 2005, 02:37 PM // 14:37

There's a lot of "that's terrible" comments, but I think it works fine, provided that you've got a prot monk too, and/or an organised enough group. Personally, I prefer heal and prot for my monk, but if you can rely on other monks, then it shouldn't be too bad unless your opposing team has good necros, mesmers and rangers. Then again, those three classes can take down pretty much all monk builds, so there's little escape from that.

As for healing breeze, I have somewhat a love/hate relationship with. Whilst it helps over time, it won't stop someone being spiked (which happens way too often in PvP). And whilst, as an enchantment, it helps with Dwayna's Kiss, Ether Renewal etc, it also helps an enemy casting Desecrate Enchantments ....

OrangeArrow · Sep 24, 2005, 03:33 PM // 15:33

For a PvE Monk the build itself isnt too bad but some of the author's reasoning behind the build shows lack of experince and understanding of some of the fundamentals of the game.

if you replaced Healing breeze with heal other and P+H with a better energy management elite the build would be half decent. Rebirth is a PvE Essential terrible in PvP but great for PvE. Divine Boon isnt bad but to use it effectively you need to know when you need it and when you dont.

lets examine his Rules.
1. Never bring Anti Condition, Curse, Hex spells.
Terrible rule for PvP since if there is any organization in a team build every condition, every hex, every spell, serves some kind of purpose. An PvE player might be able to get the impression that condition and hex removala are not necessary since very few mobs effectivly combo their skills together so while one single hex or condition might be annoying its never really too much of a threat in PvE. Still if you have the space hex removal and condition removal can only help you out.

2. High Mana Regeneration
I agree with this just because I know there are a lot of PvE Noobs out there using +15 energy - 1 regen focus items.

3. Bring Low mana spells vs high mana spells.
Disagree with this completely. While I understand and agree with the concept that an healing monks build should be centered around 2 or 3 low cost 5 energy staple heals the rest of the skills should not be more low cost heals but rather skills to use in different situations. you shouldnt write off 10 and 15 energy skills just because of the high cost most of the time its worth it.

My Ideal healing build

2- 5 energy heals usually Orision and kiss or WoH. These 2 will be the staples of your healing build Try to use kiss/Woh when their bonus apply but use the other 5 energy when one is recharging Hesitation=death
1 Big heal- Usually heal other, infuse health, or WoH Use the big heal to counter spike damage and in emergancy situations
1- Healing seed- use to counter low damage but high DPS attacks
1- self heal-usually healing touch with at least 10 divine its very cost effective
1-2 hex removal/Hex prevention usually smite hex,inspired hex, hex breaker
if you have any inspiration magic use inspired hex, hex breaker is nice but with the shorter duration proabbaly needs to be supplemented by hex removal.
A few energy Management skills these can be energy genertaing skills (Inspiration line, oob) or very cost effeicent energy skills (Signet of devotion, WoH, Glyphs) but every healing build needs some sort of energy management wheter it be player skills or build.

condition removal is necessary but best handled by a protection monk

I dont like prot healing hybrids unless its a monk/ele for aegis with glpyh for it usually spreads your self too thin over 3+ more skill lines with very little energy management which makes you a super ineffeicent healer

Charcoal Ann · Sep 24, 2005, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aetherfox

i thought this was a joke post at first...

firstly : monk's rarely carry a rez. for the reason that if someone died it means your monks healing could not keep up with the enemy damage output. the first person that died will usually be another monk. it means your healing output is already reduced, and YOU WANT TO TAKE AN 8 SECOND BREAK FROM HEALING... not a good idea.

correction: monks shouldn't carry res. but they are forced to in many teams. many people seem to think that it is the monks job to heal and res. it isn't. any W/Mos should really be ressing (because they can take the hits) after that anything that isn't a monk.

i'm amazed at the lack of word of healing in many of these builds. i know it was broken (didn't heal for the extra amount sometimes) but i'm fairly sure it is fixed. and anyway it is as effective as heal other at that point.
i only bring healing touch as a self heal.

14 healing
14 divine favour

i only have 40 energy (because i like to look good)

Orison
Dwaynas kiss
Word of Healing
Healing Touch
Healing Breeze
res of some sort (because all members should be able to res)
Healing Seed
Signet of Devotion (swapped for mend ailment or somesuch in many areas)

sometimes sig of dev is swapped around with lots of experimental spells. i like divine healing at the moment.

This build allowed me to be a lone monk in a team of 6 in SF. only one death (a few others from the golem crushers :P). 'course to be an effective monk you need an effective team.

All member should carry res incase you are the only one alive (rebirth is ggod for this). you say 'you should't be dieing in PvP'. maybe you shouldn't but type /deaths once in a while. not all of those are PvP deaths. mistakes happen. the monk lags, the ele goes afk, the warrior is destracted and aggros.

in a perfect world; in a perfect team; on the perfect day, res is useless.
nothing is perfect. mistakes will happen. prepare for them.

2_fingers · Sep 24, 2005, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Initially, i though the tread starter had something decent to say. After reading it, i realised he didnt.

the key to being a good monk is to understand ur spells.

At the moment, if he;s only been playing in random arena, he doesnt know the danger of strip enchantments/lingering hex/rend enchantments/or even soul leech.

Pve, this build is fine. Not very good. But acceptable for most circumstances.

Go pvp, with the frag mes now around, he be hit by backfire, condition and then dead. He wont be able to cast thru it, remove any condition and neither would he be able to heal himself or his ally.

Spookie Noobie · Sep 24, 2005, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice Blessings

Do you suck at healing? Do your Warriors die before you cast smite hex on them? Do Elementals heal more than you do? THEN YOU CAME TO THE RIGHT PLACE!

I am a level 20 monk, and have played a monk charater for over 350-500 hours (havent' checked in a long time).. and been a monk ever since GW came out. I have around 400,000 exp. So trust me when I say I know what i'm talking about. Well I am writing this guide on how to be a Elite monk because many monks, even level 20 at SF just doesn't know how to HEAL effectively.

Personally, I went with a team of 7 people who where not healers, and healed all of them effecitively and easily and EVEN did this in the PvP Tomes and healed everyone effectively and not 1 of them died!!! (ahem, till i hit 0 mana).

Anyways, if you really want to be a good monk, then you must first understand how a monk works, their role, and what you must do to keep your party alive effectively.

Here is the 3 rules of becomming the Elite Monk.

1. Never bring Anti Condition, Curse, Hex spells.

Thats always rule number one! Many people bring useless spells like smite hex, or remove hex. Although removing a hex from your ally is a good thing, it won't heal them. Now just sit and think about it for a second. If that hex or curse was on them, would it kill them? No, other than Degen spells. All conditions, hexs, and curses end. They do not have a infinite time period, their not gonna stay on your ally forever, so let them die out through time. Instead, bring a heal spell in its place.

2. High Mana Regeneration

Did it ever occur to you that you can never heal anyone with 0 mana? That means mana is very important, and without it, your not going to heal Anyone. So always have the maxest, highest mana regeneration as possible.

3. Bring Low mana spells vs high mana spells.

Always bring healing spells that cost 5, not 10 or 15. Its okay to bring atleast 1 or 2, but if your direct or primary healing is with 10 mana, your skrewed. Make SURE that your primary healing is 5 mana healings pells.

Now thats all I'm going to say about becomming a good monk, however I won't leave you clueless. Test this build i'm about to post below and ifs not good as a spiker healer monk, then please feel free to critize it, but with it, I have healed a team of 7 offensive units without a problem.

1. Healing Breeze
2. Healing Touch
3. Orision of Healing
4. Dwana's Kiss
5. Signet of Devotion
6. Peace and Harmony
7. Divine Boon
8. Rebirth

How this Build works:

Use healing breeze to passive heal anyone taking heavy damage while you constantly machine gun orision of healing and dwana's kiss spells. Use Healing touch to heal yourself in dire times. Use signet of devotion to cure scratchs whe you do not want to use mana, and also use it when you have 1 or 2 mana left and need to heal someone, by the time you do, your mana will be at 5 or 6 again, enough to use orision or dwana. Use Divine boon first and then peace and harmony or you will cancel PH out. The extra mana regeneration cancels divine boon which makes you a high healing effective machine. Of course, rebirth needs no explanation, if you want, bring restore life in its place.

There you go monks, if you need help getting a good build THERE IT IS!!! Hope this helps all you people out there who get terrible monks for partners!

~Ice Blessings~

There is some good advice here for starter Monks in PvE:

High Energy Regen & low Energy Heals.

Kudos for you starting this post Ice Blessings, if you can see past some of the Flames there are some good tips you and others may want to implement into your current build.

Personally, I like to add a little bit of low cost Protection for my Monk. I also like running a War secondary for "Bonetti's" which is helpful for both PvE and PvP (bring condition/hex removal!) - switch it out with "Sprint" in PvE if you don't aggro and want to keep up.

Oh, and if I'm getting bored in PvE I'll switch to Fiery Sword! - eeep incoming FLAME!

LOL

Good thread.

Mhydrian · Sep 24, 2005, 06:18 PM // 18:18

What do you do against FRAG mesmers? Play a random arena like that and you will lose alot of comrades. I always bring mend condition and usually two hex removals smite hex and remove hex, as some of the frag mesmer hexes are plain instant death.

Energy isnt an issue with offering of blood either for me.

I can see how the OP can have the misconception that hex removal and conditon removal arent important. I wont remove a single poison usually with mend condition, if I know that my teamate has mutilple conditions on him, thats one nice heal, so I go for it. However single conditions like bleeding,poison, and disease, will get removed when I have an abundance of mana.

Mend Ailment is ESSENTIAL for stopping cripple, blindness, and weakness to name a few. These are skills that can severely destroy your teams DPS.

The same goes for hex removal, in general if the opposing team has a M/ne I keep both hex removals ready to thwart a frag attack. If I miss hex removals, I tag my teamate with mend condition before the final spike hits. I dont see how you can survive against a cheesy frag attack without hex removals and mend ailment.

Its been mentioned before that some hexes are so often reapllied they arent worth the energy to remove, but there are some hexes which have to be dealt with. Imagined burded, crippling anguish, and other movement slowing hexes have to be dealt with. As a monk your ability to run, denies the enemy countless opportunities to damage you, you simply have to keep your mobility to survive. ANd unfortunately sine ANET doesnt know how to balance this game for warriors....a single hex like that can negate a warrior 100%. You cant fight with only 3 people and expect to win, or maybe even just 2. Ive seen mesmers bring 3 snares before. It destroys tank heavy teams.

My build is for random arenas. Made for flexibilty, survivability and energy management.

Heal Other
Healing touch
Reversal of Fortune
Signet of Devotion
Mend Ailment
Offering of Blood
Smite Hex
Remove hex

Blood Magic 10
Healing Prayers 12
Divine Favor 12
Protection 9

The only real weakness to this build is lack of healing options. I can't spike heal as well as Id like. But some things have to be sacrificed for the flexibility. A strong point is energy management is not an issue. I always have energy. Another strong point is the ability to stop frag attacks, and keep your party's DPS unhindered.

Reversal of fortune, is a great spell. It's a monks best friend for kiting warriors. Reversal with healing touch is a tough defense against warrior attacks. And reversal of fortune can do alot against air spikers as well.

Signet of devotion is good for healing around backfire, and just delivering mana free heals. It's downside is that with meleee on you stopping 2 seconds to use a signet isn't very safe. So its situationally used, but still very often used by myself.

I used to bring a rez sig instead of all the hex removals. But after the appearance of the cheesy frag builds, Ive decided preventing a frag attack is better than rezzing a dead teamate, especially considering rezzing options for a monk arent so great for PVP. I more often than not brought rez sig.

2_fingers · Sep 24, 2005, 06:46 PM // 18:46

to stop frag mesmer, u need to disable the casting by using spell breaker or, counter the condition before virulence sets in. Mend condition can do this (although tricky). Once the mesmer casts backfire, dun panic, just wait till the next spell comes in. If its fragility, u have around 2 sec before next spell comes in. Smite this time. U will take a shit load of damage before this though, because of the backfire. But since fragility is gone, most of the really lethal damage is dissipitate. Just use mend condition to mop up the rest.

If u asked me, Mendcondition is too useful not to bring anywhere, be it pvp, pve. The bonus heal as well as the divine heal make this a good spell to bring anywhere u would face conditions. (which is practically everywhere outside asclon)

As for hex removal, we have 2, one is smite hex, the other is convert hex. Both basically barely make it in terms of hex removal.

There is one other alternative - contemplation of purity. But u need to think abut tat build as a whole in order to slot that in. contemplation is spammable. I've seen monks use this to counter frag mesmers anyway.

Oh yeah. Talking about exp. 400k exp monk? Experience is not an indicator of skill nor is it an indicator of anything. Experience can be farmed. I think my monk has way over 800k exp and i have spent about 1/2 the time he has.

Zhou Feng · Sep 24, 2005, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aetherfox

i thought this was a joke post at first...

firstly : monk's rarely carry a rez. for the reason that if someone died it means your monks healing could not keep up with the enemy damage output. the first person that died will usually be another monk. it means your healing output is already reduced, and YOU WANT TO TAKE AN 8 SECOND BREAK FROM HEALING... not a good idea.

secondly : healing breeze is not a healing spell. repeat. a target coming under heavy fire will be the focus of enemy enchantment strips and shatters. against a competent team the moment you slap on healing breeze it will get stripped or shattered for more damage and you just wasted 10 mana. there are more dangerous enchantments that need to be stripped than healing breeze anyway, which sort of ensures that when you do cast breeze it will be removed. even if it is not removed, breeze healing is too slow. casting word + orison can net you a roughly 320 heal for 10 mana within 3 seconds as opposed to maybe 210 heal in 10 seconds for healing breeze.

third : condition removal is crucial to have on your team. you could only justify it if another monk brought condition removal himself. conditions don't kill a person? you obviously haven't seen a monk getting crippled and beaten to death by warriors. you haven't seen an entire team die just because a monk got hit by concussion shot and hence could not heal anyone else for 20 seconds since he was being fired on by a ranger with tigers fury. a ranger with melandru's arrows and apply poison will cause -7 degen for an extended period of time per target if he manages to get one shot off -> 14DPS for 20 seconds is 280 damage...

fourth : where is aegis???

fifth : hex removal and enchantment removal is completely missing from this build. so you think that hexes like lingering curse or life transfer or fragility aren't worth removing because you can "heal" the damage they cause since they don't "kill"? i suggest you go to random arena and receive a 500 damage spike from a fragility build and tell me hexes don't kill... and that your orison and healing breeze is more efficient than using a 5 mana smite hex or even a -5 mana inspire hex (yes you can gain mana removing hexes) in preventing hundreds of damage to a target. and without removing lingering curse your healing is going to do next to nothing... yes i laugh at your half strength orison =p

And For The Biggest Flaw -->

peace and harmony is just meh... i would rather take a better elite. most of the time monks are limited in their healing not because they have no mana, but because they are being focused and killed. =p if a monk gets the focus of attacks (which is always) then the first priority of the enemy team will be to remove all your protective enchantments, which automatically removed peace and harmony as well.

the question is how long do you expect to survive in a fight in pvp without getting the attention of the enemy team? lets assume you have a 60 second duration on peace and harmony. that's a total net gain of +15 mana over 60 seconds... (20-5).

do you expect to keep that enchantment up for 60 seconds when monks are among the first targets in a fight? assuming that the enemy team is completely idiotic... and leaves you alone... you gain 15 more mana over 60 seconds, wohoo 1 breeze and 1 more orison.

if you absolutely, completely, must have more mana, just spec in something like energy drain. if i was fighting againt you as a monk i would take energy drain elite.. even at only rank 7 energy drain i can drain you 3 times in 60 seconds, for 14 mana each time. you would lose 42 mana over 60 seconds, and i would gain 27 mana.

over 60 seconds gaining 27 mana and forcing the enemy to lose 42 mana is far far better than "maybe" getting 15 mana if your peace and harmony isn't shattered. far better as in, holy crap wtf bbq better.

and here's an even bigger kicker : energy drain is not my first pick of elite either, since there are other ways of managing your energy and more useful monk healing elites that you can bring for your team. more than anything else that shows just how bad a skill peace and harmony is.

Condition removal IS NOT the task of the Pure Healer monk, that is the work of the prot monk. In arenas you might have to go heal/prot but in Tombs and GvG its not a good idea. Therefore the best healers go pure healing with a 11 Divine Favor 10 Healing and 10 Inspiration then add runes and scalps as need. Keep divine favor close to or higher then healing. Why? Do the math. What any GOOD pure healing monk should bring is Inspired Hex or soemthing else to deal with hexes. If a healing monk wants to help with condition removal they can bring mend ailment with whatever points are left put into protection.

Healing Breeze is NOT A GOOD SPELL. Bring Other instead. For the same price Other actually heals twice Orison and is quite effective, specially in a Denial Healer build (where the elite is energy drain).

Peace and Harmony works , its not a bad elite but I prefer something like Energy Drain instead, because I use it as an indirect offensive spell.

Some people argue OoB is better then ED actually they both have their pros and cons. Still Id pick ED anytime over OoB because as soon as someone recognizes Im using OoB I'll be an even bigger target... Monks are just not for LOSING ANY kind of health by their actions even if its something so simple like 48 Health (10% Max Health sacrificed at 480 health), because that's still 48 health you lost and under attack its a bad idea. Whereas with drain Im just sure Im close to an enemy caster or know where he is and a quick targetting and ED and boom Im good to go AND DENIED him of precious energy. Also ED can be comboed nicely. You can target an ally and heal with for example SoD while you seek your target, target him and immediatly go for ED as soon as SoD finishes you will auto ED enemy after.

EDIT: I consider Mo/Me as the 'best' pure healers because they have energy management and can deal with hex, they can also ins or drain enchantments, not to mention make us of perhaps mantras and channeling.

Zhou Feng · Sep 24, 2005, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celdor Nailo

What build would you make for a Monk/Elem? I like being the main healer of the parties I'm in but I don't have the time to try different kinds of combinations. I chose Elem as my secondary profession thinking I want to have some offensive skills also. But as I've leveled up I use my offensive skills less and less.

You might want to look in the Elem's Earth Line with defensive spells like Ward of Melee, Ward of Foes, Obsidian Flesh etc. You mgiht also want to pick up a Glyph. In my case Id only take Ward of Melee and maybe a Glyph of Lesser Energy or Glyph of Concentration.

funbun · Sep 24, 2005, 07:55 PM // 19:55

A N/Ele would make a great secondary support unit. Basicaly, AoE healing and protection.