Curse

Brother Andicus · Sep 28, 2005, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

I've just finsihed GvGing for the day. We played about 7 matches, and 6 of those were ranger spike using Kindle Arrows.

However, we won 6/7 matches, and all those were to kindle builds. The only guild that managed to beat us was a build designed against ours

Popular, but easily beat.

And having won 6/7 you are still only 707th. Im just guessing, but I would say probably the spikes werent quite as spikey as dealt by a top 100 guild.

Maybe you'd like to enlighten us on the skill combos involved?

Dont Look At My · Sep 28, 2005, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Andicus

You know people like you piss me off incredibly. If you only bothered to read the thread first, you may have some clue what we are talking about.

First things first, I play for a fairly high ranked guild(as stated in the OP), I have won HoH, dont you think I maybe might have figured how to make a PvP character and test stuff out? Not only that, but how do you suggest I practice against a 4-5 man spike in TA/CA? Its just not going to happen.

Next, you put fertile in your list. WHY? The guy from Prav posted ages ago to say they would have killed it. You posted a bunch of slow cast enchantments. WHY? We already decided that a decent spike team doenst give away targets, carries a strip, and kills in under 1s.

We've also heard from the prav guys that the best counter is probably an attacking skill....so you retype all the defensive ones already mentioned.

And If I was begging, why did I start the thread with a few suggestions of my own.

If I were to make a suggestion, it would be to go make a PvP character, and try some skills out, you can always delete it after if it dont work out. Maybe pop your skills list up and look what they do and figure some stuff out for yourself before coming and trying to look good because you can retype what other people have written.

To finish this on a positive note, mass E-drain, and maybe interrupting the kindle both have potential. Another fun one to try may be amnity, that could potentially be hilarious.

Looking at the offensive skill - how about earthquake or thunderclap? A ranger sitting down cant kill you. Not sure if thunderlclap would work, as its a hex, and you can be sure the rangers probably have hex breaker packed(could maybe have someone throw an unimportant hex at it first). Could spamming price of failure work?

Oh, and Holy wrath.....ROFL

well for someone who plays in a fairly high ranked guild, you just do the stuff you reproach to me? you repeat what I and other people said alreddy.

Sry if I repeated some stuff, that reponse was ment for someone who opened a similar thread, but It got closed and I got redirected to here.

you aren't really someone who has to say something in your high ranked guild, are you?

Jura · Sep 28, 2005, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Andicus

And having won 6/7 you are still only 707th. Im just guessing, but I would say probably the spikes werent quite as spikey as dealt by a top 100 guild.

Maybe you'd like to enlighten us on the skill combos involved?

IIRC they're running 8 Frag mesmers with backfire.

zehly · Sep 28, 2005, 03:16 PM // 15:16

With the ease of using Melandru's arrows, Incindiary arrows, and Poison arrows, you could cause massive degen that could even overcome Martyr+Mend Condition on everyone. I know this works for a fact. It's even worse when you have a mesmer bring fragility along (not as primary use).

cookiehoarder · Sep 28, 2005, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by βlitzkrieg

I've just finsihed GvGing for the day. We played about 7 matches, and 6 of those were ranger spike using Kindle Arrows.

However, we won 6/7 matches, and all those were to kindle builds. The only guild that managed to beat us was a build designed against ours

Popular, but easily beat.

I am compairing (or however spelt) IWAY and Ranger spike. Both are popular, and IWAY is always easily beat, and Ranger spike is only easily beat if the other team has no clue what to do. Ranger spike actually depends on the people playing. It also depends on the fact that they know how to run the build. IWAY doesn't. *whew*

Iere · Sep 28, 2005, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Actually, I came across some ranger spikers in random arena; they've moved up on my priority list so that they come right after monks.

It seems that in two days, the amount of people using ranger spike has increased exponentially. I now pack some skills specifically to deal with that.

But that's just my adventures in random. I can imagine they'd be much tougher if they were in HoH... and somehow I get the feeling that water eles will be wanted just for their Ward Against Harm. Can this possibly mean that people will stop neglecting water?

Brother Andicus · Sep 28, 2005, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

well for someone who plays in a fairly high ranked guild, you just do the stuff you reproach to me? you repeat what I and other people said alreddy.

I repeated 1 skill - price of failure.
I commented that yes, E-drain was a good idea
And I came up with 2/3 new suggestions of my own.
How does that mean I did the same as you?? I think you really need to read before posting

Or Maybe you were refering to this bit.....maybe the sarcasm tags will help you.

[Sarcasm]

Quote:

If I were to make a suggestion, it would be to go make a PvP character, and try some skills out, you can always delete it after if it dont work out. Maybe pop your skills list up and look what they do and figure some stuff out for yourself before coming and trying to look good because you can retype what other people have written.

[/Sarcasm]

Please dude, stop embarrasing yourself and cluttering the thread. Its actually getting people having a pretty good discussion.

twicky_kid · Sep 28, 2005, 11:29 PM // 23:29

tried to warn people a week ago about this

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=62721

its coming not alot of counters out there. if you do bring those counters what do you do when the rangers don't show up?

another play with or against situation.

Brother Andicus · Sep 29, 2005, 12:04 AM // 00:04

I still think its too early to decide if its IMBA or not. Its kinda wrong, that the skills used to spike are interrupts, but them being interrupts doesnt really effect anything. Its the spike thats dangerous, and I just dont think we have fully explored possible ways to deal with it. It will probably require thinking outside the box a little, but thats not a bad thing.

Also wondering if anyone has tried the obvious yet and just ploughed right in there using double or maybe even triple smite. Sure players are going to drop, but with only 2 healers, so are the ranger team. Im becoming more and more convinced, that a utility player is the way to go. There are certain skills that are going to be useful against both IWAY and ranger spike. Using 1 character slot to reduce the effectiveness of these seems like a pretty good deal.

smurfhunter · Sep 29, 2005, 12:40 AM // 00:40

pfff our bomb build owned plenty of these ranger spikers.

pshaw.

twicky_kid · Sep 29, 2005, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

pfff our bomb build owned plenty of these ranger spikers.

pshaw.

real ranger spikes use the eoe bomb

Entropius · Sep 29, 2005, 03:31 AM // 03:31

The ranger spike, done well, is uncounterable by all means save ward vs harm.

Kariston The Swift · Sep 29, 2005, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Ehh the only reason I think that this won't be the next FotM is because while IWAY can be run by experienced players and "noobs" and still win(In the case of "noobs" only against other "noobs"). A uncoordinated ranger spike won't get you anywhere no matter what team you are coming up against.

Neo-LD · Sep 29, 2005, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Just saying, this is my all time least favorite fotw besides spirits.

1) Everyone copt-pasted the same 8 skills.
2) Everyone can do it by mashing 1,2,3,4 as often as they come up.
3) It seems to be to be nearly unstopable unless you have a stacked ranger hate team.
4) Its going to get punishing shot nerfed ><

interupt rangers used to be played to, you know, actually interupt. Now they are spikers first and interupters second. Before long rangers wont be able to do either.

Sharpsight · Sep 29, 2005, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Entropius

The ranger spike, done well, is uncounterable by all means save ward vs harm.

Bullshit. If you believe that, then you seriously lack creativity.

I beat a rank 33 guild running ranger spike in Tombs (Burial) yesterday with an IWAY build (yes, it's a neub build, but I like how fast the game goes). I think what messed them up the most was that they started spiking me right at the start of the match, and I ran behind a pillar and instead of switching spike targets, they just dicked around for about 12 seconds, in which time the entire team of IWAY wars got into melee range, and it was downhill from there.

Then again, we were a highly co-ordinated R3+ IWAY build with necros who actually knew what their job was (and only one idiot warrior), so maybe it's not THAT surprising. I was shocked when a R33 guild so obviously had a complete breakdown of tactics, though. Guess I'm just in too much awe or something.

So, in terms of the ongoing discussion, rangers can be beat by line of sight. I'm sure all the monks out there have figure that out already, but even wars can dodge attacks too, if needed.

Entropius · Sep 29, 2005, 05:55 AM // 05:55

I said "done well".

You admit yourself that they made an enormous tactical error by wasting 12 seconds of spiking against a column.

I stand by my claim that the only way for a build competent against other teams to also compete against ranger spike is Ward vs Harm.

Reaction is useless, since a well-executed spike can drop a target faster than healers can target them and heal them.

Proactive counters that involve enchantments on the target are useless, since competent teams running ranger spike use Lingering Curse and Rend Enchantments, unless those counters also involve Spellbreaker or Obsidian Flesh.

These abilities are insufficient to protect an entire team, and a target will be selected that is not protected.

That leaves shouts, stances, and wards as the possible counters.

Ward vs Elements doesn't reduce damage by enough.

Warrior shouts are a possibility, but keeping an entire team in the radius of Watch Yourself and Shields Up! is difficult.

Mantra of Flame is a possibility, but it is of limited utility against everyone else.

No other stances are capable of providing the level of protection necessary on a whole team.

That leaves Ward vs Harm as the sole defense.

Zeru · Sep 29, 2005, 06:04 AM // 06:04

IWAY will own the hell out of rangers in a 1v1 if they run the typical 4 ranger 1 support 3 monk setup or even 4 monks. They'd drop 2-3 ppl, who'd get ressed, then the entire spike team would have no energy and couldn't regain it. Then again I still have yet to see an IWAY team besides ours run fear me. Just sad...

People are seriously underestimating power hexing and energy denial vs ranger spikes. Most teams don't run enough energy management on their rangers. Generally only drain enchant and maybe a zealous bow. Signet weariness, fear me spam, and many copies of drain/tap.

We did fine in gvg with a 2 monk build versus a top ranked ranger spike team (they were testing it but still did it better than practically all teams I've seen). We lost people yeah, but we had enough mobility control and hex shutdown to minimize deaths and slowly force them back. They simply couldn't keep the kills up.

M3lk0r · Sep 29, 2005, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kariston The Swift

A uncoordinated ranger spike won't get you anywhere no matter what team you are coming up against.

True. An uncoordinarted Ranger spike is pretty sh!t even compared to uncoordianted IWAY or Smite. You'll need some amount of brains to go anywhere with this FotM (Not that FotMs go anywhere ofcourse, but just saying)
This one does have more flexibility though, I'm sure the creative among here will play sneaky variations.

ringking · Sep 29, 2005, 07:34 PM // 19:34

If you face a top team in tombs, odds are good that they are testing out a build, so it's not that suprising that they are un-coordinated. When you face them in GvG they will damn sure not be testing (unless its a smurf).

People are vastly overestimating the "unstopability" of the spike, however (based on my experience vs 4 different top 50 guilds running it). It is much more powerful in tombs because of the comfined places and the ease of getting an elevation advantage on your foes, imo.

mr_boo · Sep 29, 2005, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Well looks like the FoTM Ranger spike has been nerfed with the recent update.