Curse

Brother Andicus · Sep 26, 2005, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

I think the best counter to this build is that it takes a lot of skill and organistation to make it work, which is something you hardly ever see

Once you get towards the top 200-300 guilds, relying on your opponents incompetence is a pretty surefire way to lose.

Quote:

Methinks some of you might want to check out this thread.

Why?? I went and looked, and after seeing 8 pages of whining got bored. If I didnt know better, directing to that thread is almost like trolling from a forum mod.

In my original post, I never said anything about whether the build is overpowered, I didnt bring the fact that the skills also interrupt into it, thats irrelevant. Its the pure spike that cant be countered by prot spirit that I was looking for a discussion of.

And to the person above - prot spirit and reversal can counter air spike, fast re-actions and a 1/4 sec cast means you apply it after the strip takes place. The ranger spike is made up of lots of small damage, so negates the usefulness of these skills.

Phades · Sep 26, 2005, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

im sure you barely ever read skill descriptions and are far from knowing half of all skills.

How exactly does that save the person being spiked? How exactly does it kill a spiker, when the return damage is split between many people? If the ranger team is brinigng enchantment removal to deal with blanket ageis or guardian coverage, that skill would get caught as well. Even if it didnt, the flurry of attacks would drain out the sustaining character faster than anything else rendering them useless. So, umm what was your point again?

aphex twin · Sep 26, 2005, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Ollj how the hell does smiting counter ranger spike? Anything that gets into bow range drops in less than a second...even a warrior.

ringking · Sep 26, 2005, 07:07 PM // 19:07

11-0? Our match must have been my imagination :x

Seriously though, your spiking was the most powerful ranger spike I've seen in gvg (PrP is tougher but they have the advantage of not running a flag). Black Rose has quicker target switching though so I'm not sure which was the tougher fight. It was a good game in any case, more exciting than the 5000 rated guilds the system seems to constantly find for us :/

Rey Lentless · Sep 26, 2005, 07:44 PM // 19:44

I'm convinced Ollj doesn't actually play. It has to be that.. or something involving too many paint chips.

Lebdan · Sep 26, 2005, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Wouldn't Winter counter it?
I've heard about this, but I'm not sure.

romO · Sep 26, 2005, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ringking

11-0? Our match must have been my imagination :x

Seriously though, your spiking was the most powerful ranger spike I've seen in gvg (PrP is tougher but they have the advantage of not running a flag). Black Rose has quicker target switching though so I'm not sure which was the tougher fight. It was a good game in any case, more exciting than the 5000 rated guilds the system seems to constantly find for us :/

your match was our last loss ^^. that was a great game and we are 11-0 SINCE then. damn you and your luring =P

Pharalon · Sep 26, 2005, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

im sure you barely ever read skill descriptions and are far from knowing half of all skills.

The spike takes 1.5 seconds max. Holy wrath has a casting time of 2 seconds, so it's useless unless used preemptively.
If you're casting it preemtively on high priority targets, you'll have no pips of regen, and be locked at 0 en within 4 seconds.
If you cast it preemtively, it's just getting removed before the spike comes anyway
Spike is hitting for 500 damage max. That's a max of 60-70 damage per ranger. Ouch! You may force me to use an orison.

smurfhunter · Sep 27, 2005, 12:30 AM // 00:30

lol @ ollj. i always thought holy wrath was a joke. aaanyway.... "shields up" still gives you armor vs piercing so preps or not you will reduce damage/chance of hitting. but you will still get hit by the kindle arrows prep, and that damage wont get minimized.

think of it as ward against melee to warrior; if you just put one up and expect to totally nullify the warrior its not happening. but it does severly gimp the damage, and in a build where thats their *only* form of hurting you, is rather effective.

Ender Ward · Sep 27, 2005, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

aaanyway.... "shields up" still gives you armor vs piercing so preps or not you will reduce damage/chance of hitting. but you will still get hit by the kindle arrows prep, and that damage wont get minimized.

Kindle converts all of your damage into fire. Which makes the +50 armor part of "Shields Up!" useless against Rangers using Kindle Arrow. That leaves you with ~30% block rate.
Stil useful against the Ignite Arrows using Rangers, though, since Ignite doesn't convert your damage globably, but only adds on ~15 fire damage.

smurfhunter · Sep 27, 2005, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ender Ward

Kindle converts all of your damage into fire. Which makes the +50 armor part of "Shields Up!" useless against Rangers using Kindle Arrow. That leaves you with ~30% block rate.
Stil useful against the Ignite Arrows using Rangers, though, since Ignite doesn't convert your damage globably, but only adds on ~15 fire damage.

are you sure about the kindle part? cant damage be both piercing *and* fire?

ah well 30% chance of blocking isnt bad

Big_L · Sep 27, 2005, 04:16 AM // 04:16

In my opinion, one type of skill will greatly improve your chances of owning ranger spike. I'd let you know it, but my guild wouldn't like that, and my leader, who posted in this thread, would be pissed =O.

Although, I'm all for the discussion, and I think hiding builds is gay, so I'll give you a hint: its not defensive.

Entropius · Sep 27, 2005, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Black Rose's ranger spike was the toughest I've faced, but also the first -- so that might have something to do with it, as we weren't prepared. Still, their Lingering Curse timing was near perfect -- when it takes three Infuse Healths to bring someone back from near dead, your healers get busy quickly. :P

We got pwnt by them.

For some reason we (Free Faction / Embryo Slaystyle's group) have never really had any trouble with pRp's version. I think we're just a bad matchup for them, because of our odd healer lineup (infuse health is about as good a panic-button save vs spike as you'll find, plus we run restore conditions and heal party which happen to own traps pretty badly) and our aggressive warrior/ranger shutdown.

If anyone from pRp's reading this: how do you find the traps working against more normal groups? Seems like they'd hose IWAY pretty badly, for instance.

knives · Sep 27, 2005, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Yeah, was just in tombs atm, and consecutively faced 2 ranger spike teams. They put lingering on said target (usually our mes or necro, someone you least expect) and spike them to death, faster than 3/4 a second because usually I cannot get a heal other/woh in. Prot spirit doesn't work as it only deals with large amounts of slow damage, instead of small amounts of fast damage. We beat the first ranger team, but lost against the other which told us to go play some IWAY. I laughed and we just talked about how they thought their build was original, as we ran against them consecutively.

Entropius · Sep 27, 2005, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Eh. Necros tend to die first, in my experience, since they're squishy and a high-priority target.

Hex breaker will help against lingering, but to save someone being spiked you need something faster -- try Infuse Health or Healing Hands.

Depending on how the enemy team's configured, anti-ranger hex hate might be effective as well. Try things like Price of Failure, Spiteful Spirit, Spirit Shackles, or Blurred Vision.

Schorny · Sep 27, 2005, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moskel

A well run Air Spike team can also kill them just fine in tombs, probably not in GvG due to exhaustion issues.

There is no exhaustion in modern air spike. At least not enough to consider it.

Mr Suz · Sep 27, 2005, 11:48 AM // 11:48

So u saw r spike trap after shock build -.-
I thought it was funny to run but monking for it was not as fun as actually doin dmg...
People kept kiting the trappers and us monks ran out of energy...
So for normal groups that r smart enough not to pile up, it didn't work

Dont Look At My · Sep 27, 2005, 02:33 PM // 14:33

There are a few way to do it, but you need to be really quick. As the damage of spikers is done not in one strong spell like with eles, but with little damage. As a chinese proverb says: "Little by little does the trick."

Well but there are then a few ways to stop it:

Monk:
*Using Elites like: Healing Hands, Shield of Deflection, Shield of Regeneration.
*Using normal spells like: Shielding Hands, Healing Seed, Guardian, Aegis.

Ele:
*Ward against Elements.
*Ward against Harm, Swirling Aura.

Ranger:
*Fertile Season, Greater Conflagration (really nice combo with Eles: Ward against Harm).

Warrior:
*Shields Up, Watch Yourself.

Now this are the main skills that benefit for the team. Generally it is about reducing damage by gettin more armor or having monk skills which heal for each impact of attack. I know that there are other skills and much much more to protect yourself, so If you want a combo for a specific combination of classes, like Mo/x or other stuff, you have to specify, because there are just too many possibilities to post them in here.

And well, a really big advice I can give you, go in front of your screen, pop up the skill list, and try to think a bit by yourself. Because if you always come for asking in the forums, there is somebody who will help you, but what are you going to do if there's noone who can help you? You have to see for yourself whats the best. Just try out some stuff, making up a team for the HoH takes an eternity, if you want to try out something, create a PVP char, goto random arena and start it. If its crap, you can just delete your character and try it with another combination. Thats how I did it, and thats how you learn, by experimenting.

ringking · Sep 27, 2005, 03:11 PM // 15:11

I'm sure they will probably adjust something about it on wendsday anyways, but you need 1/4 second cast spells to compete is pretty much the deal, and of course anything that hates against fire also hates against rangers.

Dont Look At My · Sep 27, 2005, 03:14 PM // 15:14

yep, skills like healing hands for fast help, and if they stick on the same target, start casting healing seed immediately, both together get that teammate save, after it cast your Shield of XXX on the perhaps next target. So after you got the first victim save, try to prevent sudden deaths. it gets rangers down, because if they cant kill you, they go down slowly, supposing that ur killing them ...