Curse

BiggDunc · Oct 03, 2005, 05:07 AM // 05:07

well i made rank 3 using a kd/as and here was my bar:

sprint, battle rage[e], bullstrike, irresistable blow, counter blow, hammer bash, aftershock, and rez

16 hammer, 9 strength, 9 earth... not sure if those are right, but 16 hammer definately...

the idea is to use your knockdowns alot... and battle rage builds your adrenaline so fast its awesome... but its all preference

earth shaker is my next fav, especially since they reduced the cost of casting... from 10 to 8 adrenaline

Bast · Oct 03, 2005, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

fact is that you cant switch out for the best elite for any given target mid battle. you have to use the one thats best overall and best vs whatever class you are most likely to attack (monks), which is devastating hammer.

Quoted for truth, accuracy, and because he's absolutely right.

Meimei · Oct 03, 2005, 07:32 AM // 07:32

DEVASTATING HAMMER:
Best Situational elite skill. Best Knockdown Rate. Lowest weakenss.
Probably 7/10 ppl using it. Most easy to use.

Backbreaker:
Best high burst damage elite skill for hardcore player. Lowest Knockdown Rate. Highest weakness.
Probalby 1/10 ppl using it. Very Very hard to use.

Earthshaker:
Best AOE effect elite skill. KD rate, in between. Weakness, in between.
Probalby 2/10 ppl using it. dunno will try it out

Depends on what you are doing.

pagansaint · Oct 03, 2005, 07:41 AM // 07:41

I think it treats Earthshaker like the Giant Stomp skill, unless you have balanced stance or dolyk signet running you are going down.

FrogDevourer · Oct 03, 2005, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Your best bet for PvP is DEVASTATING HAMMER. The knock lock is unarguably the best strategy you can use on a hammer warrior. Reread Bast's post to get more details. Earth Shaker is good for PvE. Backbreaker should never leave the bench.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moofoo Pork

Are u serious? that blows, i thought stonefists would added to tat 4s kd time, but i never bothered to test it out.

Confirmed. Stoneskin Gauntlets raise all knockdown times under two seconds by one second. They do nothing on k/d skills with long duration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by entropy

Same as Eonwe&smurf but why in the world would you use earthshaker for rangers? Do rangers just all stand next to you or something?

Agreed. Yet another Ollj theory I will never understand. Stupid me.

pagansaint · Oct 05, 2005, 02:59 AM // 02:59

If Earthshaker does infact act like giant's stomp and knocks everything within range wouldn't that in conjunction with Aftershock and Hammer Bash be most effective?

It will still knocklock the target, but it will also interrupt anything else nearby even through stances and aegis and gaurdian and everything else that causes a warrior to miss a target.

And I think he means to use ES for rangers because plenty of them use throw dirt and stances, which since its an AoE it will still hit through those.

Phades · Oct 05, 2005, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Only a trapper ranger is going to stand next to a hammer warrior after the first earthshaker. Even if there is a trapper ranger, i still doubt that he would risk his trap placement against the possibility of an interupt.

Six String Samurai · Oct 05, 2005, 11:10 AM // 11:10

for spike nothing beats backbreaker + crushing + aftershock. That is the fastest DPS a hammer warrior can achieve.

Earthshaker for tombs though definately, I'd rather do 120 damage to 3+ targets, then 250 + deep wound to one in tombs.

Devastating is effective only against monks who are not quick on removal.

Eonwe · Oct 05, 2005, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Six String Samurai

for spike nothing beats backbreaker + crushing + aftershock. That is the fastest DPS a hammer warrior can achieve.

That can be done with devastating as well, but for three less adrenaline.

Quote:

Devastating is effective only against monks who are not quick on removal.

I'm not quite following your logic here. If you're refering to people following up devastating with heavy blow instead of hammer bash... well, those people are bad.

Meimei · Oct 06, 2005, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Tested with Earth Shaker, Disapointed, Radius is too short to be effective. Even if they are around me, i still only knock 1 player down. Radius is somewhat even shorter then Aftershock so short that they have to barly touch me to be knockdown. Plus ppl dont surround me cause im a warrior. When i chase casters, these casters run all over, they dont stand next to each other and say Hey come point blank AOE us. That's my experience, i like to see other ppl's experience.

Moofoo Pork · Oct 07, 2005, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meimei

Tested with Earth Shaker, Disapointed, Radius is too short to be effective. Even if they are around me, i still only knock 1 player down. Radius is somewhat even shorter then Aftershock so short that they have to barly touch me to be knockdown. Plus ppl dont surround me cause im a warrior. When i chase casters, these casters run all over, they dont stand next to each other and say Hey come point blank AOE us. That's my experience, i like to see other ppl's experience.

Try Earth Shaker on and altar map, then you'll see all the big yellow numbers popping up. Atm, im running devastating hammer usually, but sometimes earth shaker, and never backbreaker b/c 10 adren is ridiculous and neevr there when i need a kd going.

White Designs · Oct 07, 2005, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

That can be done with devastating as well, but for three less adrenaline.

Not true. Backbreaker also has the built-in damage increase. While I generally do believe Devestating is superior, the BB+CB+AS is indeed the hardest spike available for a Hammer.

Deathlord · Oct 07, 2005, 02:06 AM // 02:06

I haven't tried EarthShaker with the new adreniline pump but I'd imagine it's great in HoH altars or tight GvG situations. However, I'm still sticking with Devastating hammer + Hammer Bash. In Team Arena 6 seconds of no-monkness works great. I used to have a habit of using hammer bash too soon off right after devastating hammer which wasted the second knockdown, but if you need some help you can stick AS Between DH and HB, but I tend to use it last now since people seem to run up and attack the guy bashing their monk (Get more bang out of AS).

Of course, Knock-lock focuses you on one target so it's kind of a 1 monk 1 warrior situation. If the guy meant ES > Rangers in the point that it negated blind (Which i'm assuming right now... haven't tested it for myself), then it makes a bit of sense, however, if he isn't, then I'm baffled because i'd imagine ES works best with AS[Elemental] (Dual AOE, best benefit from knockdown effect) while rangers have the highest elemental defense.

Eonwe · Oct 07, 2005, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Designs

Not true. Backbreaker also has the built-in damage increase. While I generally do believe Devestating is superior, the BB+CB+AS is indeed the hardest spike available for a Hammer.

I think what it boils down to is the fact that no one that's actually half decent would ever run backbreaker on a warrior primary. *shrugs*

The Red Knight · Oct 07, 2005, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Backbreaker is a great skill knocking something down for 4 seconds and hitting crushing blow and aftershock is just ownage :b.

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 07, 2005, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

I think what it boils down to is the fact that no one that's actually half decent would ever run backbreaker on a warrior primary. *shrugs*

You've obviously got energy issues, that and if you use that combo on my ranger, I'll just laugh it off seeing as AS is an Earth Elemental skill and I can turn that damage with my ranger to about 50 hp total...

AS is the inferior KD effect skill with good reason.

It's AoE. In PvE, EarthShaker + AS would probably be quite good followed by Crude Swing.

If it's PvP [where Hammers are godly...] Then I'd definitely say stick to SOME OTHER kd after effect...

I've been running my KD warrior [just switch helmets] using Monk Smiting Skills. Holy Strike and Smite Hex are the bomb. The hammer alone without any buffs tears off quite a ton of hp and NO amount of armor can save you from Holy Strike. The fact that they beefed it up a notch in the update makes me play my W/Mo a lot more.

You've got the energy to feed AS? Wow, you must be very damn good at using your energy management skills. [though I'd like to see how you'd do it...]

Eonwe · Oct 07, 2005, 06:41 PM // 18:41

When did I ever support using aftershock? I'm talking about backbreaker and devastating hammer.

ElderAtronach · Oct 07, 2005, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Dev hammer has the inherent advantage of taking less adrenaline to recharge, therefore you can use it more often. As a hammer warrior, you should be trying to knock people on their ass as much as you can. Any added effects of backbreaker (like the bit of dmg boost) is negligible overall.

Have to agree on Holy strike, there's nothing more frustrating than not having enough energy to pull off an aftershock after a knockdown. Besides which, aftershock a ranger, and he'll laugh at you.

Kraav · Oct 07, 2005, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Why do people still try to run Aftershock on KD warriors?

It is a shit skill pure and simple. 10 Energy, the damage is mitigated by armor, and here is the clincher 1.75 sec aftercast LOL!

Ever since they increased the aftercast animation on aftershock it went from decent to shit.

Run Holy Strike instead. Ya it is only single target, but look at the pros: 5 energy, recharges 2 seconds faster, shorter aftercast by 1 second, and damage that is unmitigated by armor (all holy damage).

KD Warrior (post Earthshaker adrenaline change)
Hammer: 16
Strength:9
Smite: 10

Sprint
Rez Signet
Frenzy
Earthshaker (E)
Crushing Blow
Hammer Bash
Warrior's Cunning
Holy Strike

KD chain = Earthshaker>Crushing>Hammer Bash>Holy Strike

Some people like to add Mighty Blow to the chain but then you lose out on Warrior's Cunning, which really sux cause then you are more dependant on your necro's Rigor Mortis.

wheel · Oct 07, 2005, 08:02 PM // 20:02

orrrrr

irresistible blow > devastating hammer > crushing blow > hammer bash > irresistible blow