Curse

smurfhunter · Oct 11, 2005, 09:35 PM // 21:35

actually i was comparing a boon heal to a boon prot, since he said the boon healers were incredibly inneficient while the boon prots werent, so you could basically ignore the effect of the divine something healing since it was the same on both, and instead focus on the effect of what you cast, slightly off topic i know >.<

im pretty sure that at 16 healing orison is 84. maybe im wrong on that...

and ive been thinking neo... the times when someone is actually spiked so fast that you cant even cast heal other arent thaat common.. maybe instead of going full prot like that you could just add infuse health? it heals for more than a divine'd rof and you arent forced to *only* use that as your healing...

Neo-LD · Oct 11, 2005, 09:45 PM // 21:45

perhaps, it is the largest heal in the game, but privides only a small increase in total team hp. Also, losing 1/2 my current hp when im a liekly target isnt exactly.... prudent.

smurfhunter · Oct 11, 2005, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

perhaps, it is the largest heal in the game, but privides only a small increase in total team hp. Also, losing 1/2 my current hp when im a liekly target isnt exactly.... prudent.

oi i thought we were passed the omg i lost half my health thing... duuh you wont use it if you are the target, but it is *HIGHLY* unlikely a damage dealer will suddenly switch to you when theyre in the middle of a SPIKE... just make sure the other monks know about it and dont start thinking you just got spiked too... that could make a big mess out of it

Zeru · Oct 11, 2005, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

actually i was comparing a boon heal to a boon prot, since he said the boon healers were incredibly inneficient while the boon prots werent, so you could basically ignore the effect of the divine something healing since it was the same on both, and instead focus on the effect of what you cast, slightly off topic i know >.<

im pretty sure that at 16 healing orison is 84. maybe im wrong on that...

and ive been thinking neo... the times when someone is actually spiked so fast that you cant even cast heal other arent thaat common.. maybe instead of going full prot like that you could just add infuse health? it heals for more than a divine'd rof and you arent forced to *only* use that as your healing...

I think 84 seems reasonable and you'd want to calculate at 16 healing anyway.

There are a lot of times in upper level gvg where 1/2s cast makes the difference between saving and a kill. I can't emphasize this enough. Cast time on monks is very very important.

As for efficiency. It's more like this: It forces them to switch targets or have massive enchant removal. Prot spirit, guardian, rof spam, and shielding hands neuter a spike. Healing has nothing that's proactive, all reactive besides seed (far too slow, garbage outside of tombs), and healing hands (hah). If they stay on the target...they don't do anything really.

As for infuse health, oh no. This skill is total garbage and can be screwed with in so many ways. Do half a spike, he infuses, switch immediately and gg. You say it's highly unlikely people will switch in the middle of a spike? We do it often enough to make infuse garbage in almost all situations. Opportunity is more important than anything else in the realm of spiking.

smurfhunter · Oct 11, 2005, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

I think 84 seems reasonable and you'd want to calculate at 16 healing anyway.

There are a lot of times in upper level gvg where 1/2s cast makes the difference between saving and a kill. I can't emphasize this enough. Cast time on monks is very very important.

As for efficiency. It's more like this: It forces them to switch targets or have massive enchant removal. Prot spirit, guardian, rof spam, and shielding hands neuter a spike. Healing has nothing that's proactive, all reactive besides seed (far too slow, garbage outside of tombs), and healing hands (hah). If they stay on the target...they don't do anything really.

As for infuse health, oh no. This skill is total garbage and can be screwed with in so many ways. Do half a spike, he infuses, switch immediately and gg. You say it's highly unlikely people will switch in the middle of a spike? We do it often enough to make infuse garbage in almost all situations. Opportunity is more important than anything else in the realm of spiking.

but... dont people always do something like lingering/rend BEFORE a spike? meaning those skills (and actually all enchantments) are REactive... not sure i follow you on how guardian is proactive...

and not to create a retarded counter thing, but dont most spikes consist of like 1-2 skills with hefty recharges? i mean switching is good and all but is it really practical in most spike builds? i guess this would depend on what you spike with...

and... yes, if you have a someone continuously watching the monks you may be able to catch him as he infuses... but... idk ive just never seen that happen, it sounds really improbable that you would catch someone like that. =/

Phades · Oct 12, 2005, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

and... yes, if you have a someone continuously watching the monks you may be able to catch him as he infuses... but... idk ive just never seen that happen, it sounds really improbable that you would catch someone like that. =/

Not so much catching him as a byproduct from colateral damage or frequent target switching. Infuse is nice, if you know that you wont be targeted in the near future. It can go wrong, but it doesnt mean that it will. Many wont take the risk initally though, especially if repeat casts are required to sustain health.

tafy69 · Oct 12, 2005, 11:48 AM // 11:48

How about subbing in a Fast Cast Me/Mo?

1. Aegis
2. Healing Seed
3. Inspire Hex
4. Echo
5. Convert Hex
6. Shielding Hands
7. Channeling
8. Res

The skills can be modified but basically the monks can forget about hex removal and concentrate on their main role, and fast cast healing seed is great.

Just a thought

smurfhunter · Oct 12, 2005, 05:19 PM // 17:19

i was just thinking... how many people watch warriors who use frenzy, so right as they frenzy you spike them? you realize the effects or frenzy and infuse are exactly the same... in one you lose half hp in the other you take double damage... and ive honestly never been targeted (as a warrior) soley because i used frenzy...

all in all i think a build thats something like this might work: 2 prot monks, one uses glyph of renewal/divine spirit and the other is normal prot...

then the heal monk would take healing seed, hh, infuse health, heal other, and whatever other monk skills (like healing touch or we)

the point being the prots minimize damage as much as possible, while one heal monk focuses on trying to do 2 seeds like 2 heal monks would... with hh as the crappy replacement, while also focusing on an occaisonal spike heal to cover whatever the prots missed/would take too long to bring back up.

you wouldnt even have to worry about using the same prot enchantments on someone twice since one persons goal is to both heal/prot while the other is pure prot...

its worth a shot i think

Kabale · Oct 13, 2005, 02:47 AM // 02:47

I've got about 400 hours on my prot/heal hybrid monk running divine boon. It's how I got my first few ranks and I'm still playing her. Yep, energy management is hard. I usually run with Offering and have a pretty good grip on my energy consumption, but it can be an issue sometimes. Also I wouldn't be able to use any of the prot elites which is sometimes a pain (so I switch to mes secondary for channeling and inspired hex).

I think the 1 heal, 1 hybrid, 1 dedicated prot would work very well, and I'm sure it's used. Haven't seen many people run this setup for monks tho...

Yamat · Oct 13, 2005, 07:06 PM // 19:06

^^ by "prot/heal hybrid" are you actually carrying healing spells, or getting the residual heal effect of high DF+DB?

Cranky · Oct 15, 2005, 04:40 AM // 04:40

A monk with 40 energy, can spam OoH 40 times, healing for about 60 each, over 120 seconds, healing for a total of 2400. (20hp/sec)

A monk with 40 energy running DB, can spam OoH 10 times, healing for about 120 each, over 30 seconds, healing for a total of 1200. (40hp/sec)

A monk with 40 energy, can spam Heal Other 8 times, healing for about 150 each, over 30 seconds, healing for a total of 1200. (40hp/sec)

A monk with 40 energy running DB, can spam Heal Other 5 times, healing for about 210 each, over 19 seconds, healing for a total of 1050. (56hp/sec)

(This is assuming you run the same amount of divine favor in both build so that I can leave it out.)

Take what you will from this.

smurfhunter · Oct 15, 2005, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cranky

A monk with 40 energy, can spam OoH 40 times, healing for about 60 each, over 120 seconds, healing for a total of 2400. (20hp/sec)

A monk with 40 energy running DB, can spam OoH 10 times, healing for about 120 each, over 30 seconds, healing for a total of 1200. (40hp/sec)

A monk with 40 energy, can spam Heal Other 8 times, healing for about 150 each, over 30 seconds, healing for a total of 1200. (40hp/sec)

A monk with 40 energy running DB, can spam Heal Other 5 times, healing for about 210 each, over 19 seconds, healing for a total of 1050. (56hp/sec)

(This is assuming you run the same amount of divine favor in both build so that I can leave it out.)

Take what you will from this.

meh thats actually wrong because you dont take into acount the -1 pip from DB, so for example while you spammed your 8 heal others you would regen some energy so you can actually spam it more than 8 times.

i actually worked it all out once but i forget where and im too lazy to find it

TomD22 · Oct 15, 2005, 08:31 PM // 20:31

When i made HoH prot monk i instinctively made it a boon one. I found it worked really well as a complement to the two healers. I definitly think it is worth it, if one is going to be full-prot anyway, to use one skill slot with boon in it, as there aren't all that many useful prot spells to take anyway. But i did have trouble with the energy management side of things. First i tried channelling, but just wasn't getting anything from that, as as a monk i tend to hide at the back of the group when possible. So then i tried Energy Tap, but it took way to long to cast, and times when i have run out of energy tend to be those where there isn't much time available. I eventually settled on P&H after unlocking it, but it's not ideal, because Aegis cancels it. So at the start of a fight i have to do Aegis, then P&H, then start protting. Which is just awkward. Plus which it is vulnerable to being removed, but then on the other hand it acts as a barrier for boon. Despite the problems, i liked it, and found keeping myself alive when targeted with spams of guardian and reversal was a lot easier than for a standard heal or prot monk.

Penguins Will Fly · Oct 15, 2005, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Ok well I've never made a prot monk so I probably don't know what I'm talking about here but... Why not take peace and harmony to negate the -1 energy regen from divine boon? I was thinking of making a prot monk with this setup but I dunno if it'll be effective or not, seeing as how I'll have to sacrifice my elite slot for it.

smurfhunter · Oct 16, 2005, 12:26 AM // 00:26

if you count the energy gained from something like offering of blood, and then just calculate the energy gained *per* time (which actually equals pips) you would notice its alot more than peace and harmonies 1 pip. on top of that, its not an enchantment that can be removed easily, and its recharge isnt as bad.

so... tbh peace and harmony sucks.