Curse

twicky_kid · Oct 14, 2005, 06:48 AM // 06:48

this is strictly for team arena play

its a pair of 2 axe w/mes with any other 2 you want.

attributes:

16 axe
11 str
9 tactics

skills: Brother #1

frenzy
fear me
disrupting chop
eviscerate
executioner's strike
sprint
arcane mimicry
res sig

skills: Brother #2

frenzy
fear me
disrupting chop
cleave
executioner's strike
sprint
arcane mimicry
res sig

will this will be fun. before battle cast mimicry to copies each other's elite. have fun with both eviscerate + cleave with 33% IAS.

watch out you might lose an arm in there.

pagansaint · Oct 14, 2005, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Drop Fear Me! for Penetrating Blow, Your damage is based around damage not robbing the other guy of energy.

Red Locust · Oct 14, 2005, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Does arcane mimicry even work on elite skills? All I see in the skill description is "Arcane Mimicry becomes the Elite Spell" and I've never bothered to try it (I wouldn't trade 20s. of 2 elite skills followed by 60s. of 1 empty slot).

Makkert · Oct 14, 2005, 08:10 AM // 08:10

yes, it should probably Locust. I tried Mimicry on Aidan in the past, and got Practiced Stance.

that said, by using Cleave, the adrenaline build up from Eviscarate will most likely be hurt long term. Interesting idea, but I have my doubts...

Bast · Oct 14, 2005, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Yeah. seems kinda silly. The guy that has to Mimicry Eviscerate will only get to use it once. Maybe. Since it takes 7 strikes to charge it and an 8th to use it, that's 1.33 * 8 = 10.64 seconds. Frenzied, you could use it twice and then have to wait for a recharge. I think it's too much dicking around for very little benefit. This isn't even taking into account things like Aegis/Ward vs. Melee/Guardian/etc.

Ya, Makkert is correct. Spamming Cleave (which is what it's designed to do--4 adren = spam me plx) every 5th hit will definitely screw up your adrenaline gaining for the other skills.

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 14, 2005, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Fear Me!! on two warriors is downright OVER kill and should NEVER be underestimated...

Now that you can ACTUALLY SEE the -purple energy dmg from your shout, just pour your adrenaline into fear me. Then use your spike damage skills later...

Fear Me!! is a LOT more damaging than you think once you hit 8 tactics.

People don't see the math, which is why people underestimate Fear Me!! spam... [/salute Eonwe]

What's a pip of energy? 1e./3s.
So what's 1e./s? 3 pips of energy right? [whip out your calculator if you're mathematically challenged]
You can shout Fear Me!! every 4 swings. [since it's not a strike, it's a shout, you can use it IN BETWEEN swings...]

That will be about 3e./4s. What's that mean? Approximately 2.3-2.6 pips energy DEGEN... [it's approximate cause sometimes, you won't be hitting and your foe may run, who knows?]

Now if 2 Warriors bring and spam fear me, they can just use their adrenal skills as spikes later [which is fine] and generate 4.6-5.2 pips of energy degen over a wide area...

I'd like to see you fight your way out of that one if it's a Dias battle... [don't count on hexes stopping your adrenaline, you DO have a good monk I hope]

What's an entire team of casters and fighters with -5.2 pips of energy regen? A dead team...

smurfhunter · Oct 14, 2005, 04:53 PM // 16:53

lol yukito, just because fear me is a great skill does NOT mean *every* warrior should have it. i mean cmon if you want pure damage, fear me will slow down the speed at which you charge your adrenal skills, which could defeat the purpose of many damage based warrior builds.

one thing about your fear me/energy pips thing: losing __ energy every __ seconds is *not* exactly the same thing as __ pips of degen. for one thing its not continuous, so if you were to graph the amount of energy you gain it would be a really choppy line, where if you "smoothed it out" (another really fishy mathematical idea) you would get the same graph as just the equivalent amount of pips. what im trying to say is its not the same thing.

entropy · Oct 14, 2005, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Well it Would work in team arenas. With a good Mesmer necro it would be a good gank but other than that the 60 sec downtime recharge is killer if it were a bit better maybe 30 secs or twenty secs it would have a little potential but the recharge is obviously there to make sure that people won't get 2 elites.

gafnalaz · Oct 14, 2005, 05:04 PM // 17:04

twicky, i read through your other thread on using a Battle Rage axe warrior. I dont know how effective it actually is bc ive never tried it, but you seem to think its pretty good. Why dont you combine the two ideas? If you can get two elites using mimicry, get BR and eviscerate...sounds like youd have fun with that.

if you try it, lemme know how it goes.

twicky_kid · Oct 15, 2005, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by gafnalaz

twicky, i read through your other thread on using a Battle Rage axe warrior. I dont know how effective it actually is bc ive never tried it, but you seem to think its pretty good. Why dont you combine the two ideas? If you can get two elites using mimicry, get BR and eviscerate...sounds like youd have fun with that combo.

if you try it, lemme know how it goes.

axe with BR isn't that great but its fun. you can use adren skill one after the other in those builds with axes. better to use swords for that build as the high dmg sword skills are not elite. funny that no one notices the sword version of that build and its on the same page (not saying you didn't just more comments on axes than sword). i have thought about comboing BR and evis but no ias puts a dent on quick spike.

with an axe you want your elite to be an attack skills so you can use your stance slot for IAS. BR will take up your stance slot meaning no IAS unless you used IWAY for IAS.

this is made to add that extra HUMPH to the evis + exe combo. now you don't have to choose between evis or cleave. why not just bring both?

yes the adrenaline curve for this build is different from the standard IAS evis build. i wanted it to be different.

Fear me!!! speaks for itself. thanx yukito for the math ^above. in teams arena the teams stay in a close groups mojority of the time. fear me range used to be ward size. it has been reduced with the update but honestly i haven't noticed. i think range is now of the arggo radar. still hits targets that are quite a distance from you. laugh at the spamming and boon monks when using fear me. with in no time they have 0 energy and 2 frenzied warriors on them.

micicry last for 20 seconds. recharge is steep but within 20 sec you should have already killed 2 targets easy. now they have dp. if you killed them one time you should be able to with DP.

twicky_kid · Oct 15, 2005, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makkert

yes, it should probably Locust. I tried Mimicry on Aidan in the past, and got Practiced Stance.

that said, by using Cleave, the adrenaline build up from Eviscarate will most likely be hurt long term. Interesting idea, but I have my doubts...

yes the adren curve would hurt it long term. when is team arena long term? i would only use this in team. you can try 8v8 haven't tested there. long term does matter there so i don't know.

pagansaint · Oct 15, 2005, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Actually if he didn't spam the Cleave and swapped in Penetrating Blow instead of just slapping a non needed skill in he could use a 4 skill Axe spike...

Especially since the only reason he has ANY tactics is for Fear Me!, take that and drop it into Strength and you get a slight damage boost and an even BIGGER one from Penetrating.

Eviscerate, Cleave, Executioner's, Penetrating from 2 warriors should pretty much wipe the floor with any character they target even if they don't use a IAS, just brute force past ANY heal but that divine favor enchant that negates fatal damage and heals a good bit, except they will probably throw more than 2 fatal blows their way using 4 spike skills each.

twicky_kid · Oct 15, 2005, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by pagansaint

Actually if he didn't spam the Cleave and swapped in Penetrating Blow instead of just slapping a non needed skill in he could use a 4 skill Axe spike...

Especially since the only reason he has ANY tactics is for Fear Me!, take that and drop it into Strength and you get a slight damage boost and an even BIGGER one from Penetrating.

Eviscerate, Cleave, Executioner's, Penetrating from 2 warriors should pretty much wipe the floor with any character they target even if they don't use a IAS, just brute force past ANY heal but that divine favor enchant that negates fatal damage and heals a good bit, except they will probably throw more than 2 fatal blows their way using 4 spike skills each.

boon monk is the exact reason i included fear me. even with OFB i can drain them. other than that fear me is just nice denial. shutting down everything around us.

Eonwe · Oct 15, 2005, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by pagansaint

Drop Fear Me! for Penetrating Blow, Your damage is based around damage not robbing the other guy of energy.

If you were to put in another attack skill I'd go with something like Swift Chop; penetrating blow isn't really that appealing for a number of reasons. First, if you use it when it does charge, the low adrenaline cost is going to sap adrenaline from your evis/exec combo, making your spikes less frequent. Second, if you're saving the penetrating blow to use at the end of your combo, you're wasting its lower adrenal cost. Third, the armor penetration bonus you get from your strength attribute doesn't apply to penetrating blow.

tafy69 · Oct 15, 2005, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

If you were to put in another attack skill I'd go with something like Swift Chop; penetrating blow isn't really that appealing for a number of reasons. First, if you use it when it does charge, the low adrenaline cost is going to sap adrenaline from your evis/exec combo, making your spikes less frequent. Second, if you're saving the penetrating blow to use at the end of your combo, you're wasting its lower adrenal cost. Third, the armor penetration bonus you get from your strength attribute doesn't apply to penetrating blow.

No Adrenaline skills all have their own pool, so using a Penetrating blow will not slow down the other skills at all, the only thing that takes adrenaline from other skills is a adrenaline skill that doesnt hit a target I.E Fear Me

Bast · Oct 15, 2005, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Every time you use an adrenaline skill, all your other adrenaline skills lose one strike and then gain it back when the attack lands. So yes, using Penetrating Blow every time it comes up slows the rate at which your other adrenaline skills recharge. And I know you're thinking, "BUT BATS U GET TEH ADRNELIN BAK SO ITZ NOOTRAL" but do some simple math before you type it:

You use an adrenal attack skill:
-1 adren for using it. +1 adrenaline when it hits. Net gain: 0.

You don't use an adrenal skill and instead pound the spacebar:
+1 adrenaline when an attack hits. Net gain: 1.

Which method builds adrenaline faster? Hint: It isn't the first one.

smurfhunter · Oct 16, 2005, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by tafy69

No Adrenaline skills all have their own pool, so using a Penetrating blow will not slow down the other skills at all, the only thing that takes adrenaline from other skills is a adrenaline skill that doesnt hit a target I.E Fear Me

if you attack with pen. blow and miss, you will lower your adrenaline. the reason it stays the same is because you lose some amount when you just activate the skill, and then gain the same amount back when you hit. so in a way it does slow it down. fear me cant possibly bring you back up after lowering it because it doesnt physically hit anyone.

and yes eonwe you do love swift chop

*edit gah bast stop beating me to it

twicky_kid · Oct 16, 2005, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bast

Every time you use an adrenaline skill, all your other adrenaline skills lose one strike and then gain it back when the attack lands. So yes, using Penetrating Blow every time it comes up slows the rate at which your other adrenaline skills recharge. And I know you're thinking, "BUT BATS U GET TEH ADRNELIN BAK SO ITZ NOOTRAL" but do some simple math before you type it:

You use an adrenal attack skill:
-1 adren for using it. +1 adrenaline when it hits. Net gain: 0.

You don't use an adrenal skill and instead pound the spacebar:
+1 adrenaline when an attack hits. Net gain: 1.

Which method builds adrenaline faster? Hint: It isn't the first one.

so the adrenaline curve is really what's hold thing back. how about i sub fear me for FGJ. sub in penetrating blow for executioner's strike for brother #2. that way it relies on mimicry less. while mimicry is in affect i could use FGJ to speed up spikes and negate adrenaline curve.

i LOVE fear me but if i can fix the weaknesses by changing it....i will. then again 2 fear me shuts down everything except eles. monks don't stand a chance with 2 fear me killing their energy.

so i'm at an impass. give me something to work with instead of pointing out weakness.

twicky_kid · Oct 16, 2005, 03:59 AM // 03:59

looking at good suggestions here i have to choose between cleave or evis for the elite slot. the result is....drum roll plz......CLEAVE

here is build

brother #1

frenzy
cleave
mimicry
penetrating blow
for great justice
sprint
inspired hex
res sig

brother #2

frenzy
cleave
mimicry
penetrating
FGJ
sprint
inspired enchantment/drain enchantment
res sig

yes that's right 2 cleaves. with FGJ 2 normal attacks charges cleave and also negates the adrenaline curve. kind of goes like this after mimicry:

FGJ + frenzy, 2 attacks, cleave (penetrate is now charged), cleave (cleave 1 charge), penetrate (cleave 2, cleave 1), attack (cleave 4, cleave 3, penetrate 2), cleave (cleave 4, penetrate 3), cleave (cleave 1, penetrate 4), attack (cleave 3, cleave 2, penetrate 5), penetrate (cleave 4, cleave 3), cleave (cleave 4, penetrate 1), cleave (cleave 1, penetrate 2), attack (cleave 3, cleave 2, penetrate 4), attack (cleave 4, cleave 4, penetrate 5), cleave

above is the attack chain over 15 attacks. that's 1s/attack with frenzy while FGJ is in affect. 5 normal attacks, 7 cleaves, 2 penetrates during that

might trade out penetrate for dismember. penetrate does slow the recharge of cleaves. the deep wound might be a better benefit.

let me know what you think

Bast · Oct 16, 2005, 08:33 AM // 08:33

With no Deep Wounds being applied you're missing out on some easy damage. Put Dismember on one of them at least. I don't like Cleave at all, but I can see your reasons for it. If you're gonna burn that much energy to Mimicry it, you'd want something spammable to make it worth the time. I don't really believe that Mimicry is worth doing on a Warrior, but hell, experimentation at least keeps the game new.

I believe FGJ is 150% adrenaline, not double. I've seen this posted before but I haven't tested it personally. I may even have mixed up FGJ with one of the other Adrenaline gainers. I'm getting old.