Curse

Cyniusz · Oct 19, 2005, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Well i decided to finally do this to figure out if the setup i was using was really the more effective of the two ways i decided were viable options.

Ill ignore any speed buffs or anything as we dont really need to know this information atm.

Combo = Irresistable Blow + Devastating Hammer + Mighty Blow + Heavy Blow + Aftershock

12 Earth, 3+1 Strength, 16 Hammer

7 Hits to charge all adrenaline (i consider this as needed for the combo)
= 104x(7x35)
--------------
100

= 254.8 Damage

Combo = 32 + 32 + 32 + 85 + 56
= 237

237 + 254.8 = 491.8

11 Earth, 6+1 Strength, 16 Hammer

7 Hits =

107x(7x35)
-----------
100

= 262.15

Combo = 32 + 32 + 32 + 80 + 53
= 229

229 + 262.15 = 491.15

12 Earth with 4 Strength is more efficient damage than 11 Earth and 7 Strength.

Esrever · Oct 19, 2005, 03:44 PM // 15:44

It's more efficient by .65 points of damage. For that amount of damage, it's not worth having 12 earth in exchange for a reduced time Sprint and less armor penetration. You also did your maths wrong by adding the strength bonus to normal attacks instead of the attack skills.

Cyniusz · Oct 19, 2005, 03:49 PM // 15:49

ah sorry, forgot about that. Brain isnt working right today lol

Arathorn5000 · Oct 19, 2005, 05:29 PM // 17:29

I'm pretty sure that isn't even the best combo for KD/AS...

Eonwe · Oct 19, 2005, 06:38 PM // 18:38

KD/AS warriors in general, are garbage. *shrugs*

Xasew · Oct 19, 2005, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Pure warriors ftw.

wheel · Oct 19, 2005, 07:39 PM // 19:39

heavy blow? uhhhh *stops listening*

audioaxes · Oct 19, 2005, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

heavy blow? uhhhh *stops listening*

Wont waste time rearguing against the false claim that hammer bash is absolutely better than heavy blow but I will say that you need heavy blow for the extra damage to increase your chances for the kill.
BTW you should add crushing blow somehow, very crucial for that spiking combo if you want a kill.

mighty blow -> devastating -> crushing -> heavy blow -> aftershock *->irresistable (may not have enough energy, target may be dead already)

Freddeh · Oct 19, 2005, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Depends on where you are...in comp arena i use heavy blow and 19 times out of 20 i'll be perfectly fine...in team arena i still use heavy blow fine, but in tombs id almost always bring bash over heavy blow for the definite shot.

That said i go straight warrior and use the Devastating -> crushing -> heavy blow/hammer bash combo but bring blind removal, for great justice, frenzy, and sprint so im able to spam this combo quite quickly...for little mana usage and maxing out hammer mastery and strength (normally 16/13 or 15/14) for more damage with even the normal hits.

This is for comp arena, if i ever take a kd war into tombs i'll have to change my build around obviously but this build works quite well for comp and team arenas.

Bast · Oct 20, 2005, 12:11 AM // 00:11

The boat left and you weren't on it. Hammer warriors are run for disruption, not damage. Hammer Bash is much less likely to fail than Heavy Blow. Since your job is disruption, then the extra damage on Heavy Blow is not important but the condition clause for the knockdown is. Sure, the damage is far from unimportant, but it's just a useful side-effect. Causing 6 seconds of knocklock on a monk is huge if your team can take advantage of it.

Audioaxes was right on one point: You should definitely take Crushing Blow.

KD/AS is inferior to a pure hammer warrior for a number of reasons:
1.) Attribute points spread too far--It becomes a contest between strong AS, weaker hammer attacks, or weak AS, strong hammer.
2.) Locked into Elementalist secondary
3.) Costs 10 energy which a warrior can't really sustain constantly.
4.) Aftershock has a long aftercast
5.) Aftershock does about the same amount of damage as Irresistable Blow

If you want to run a damage warrior, take axe.

Regarding the math in the original post: Counting the strikes to charge up the combo is kinda specious. It takes about 12-13 seconds to charge up Devastating if the target doesn't move and every strike lands (assuming no attack speed buff). That's more than enough time for a monk to react. The spike is what's important.

Since the Hammer knockdown chain isn't really a spike (it takes far too long to execute it), it's very likely the downed enemy will recieve a heal or reversal during it. KD/AS is only really capable of killing a monk 1v1, and even then a Boon Protter (even a bad one) will just toss in a Reversal between the knockdowns and you won't get the kill.

Cyniusz · Oct 20, 2005, 12:13 AM // 00:13

I use Kd/As aswell as Axe warrior, although i run Axe more often. I was asked to run Kd/As this morning.

I use Heavy Blow mainly for the 2nd Knockdown.

entropy · Oct 20, 2005, 01:36 AM // 01:36

AS is just plain bad on an axe warrior. The only reason I would take it was if I was going to use earthshaker for the aoe knockdown and dmg but other than that no. Personally HS is just better now. 5 energy for 72 dmg at 9 smiting. Getting that 3 extra strength is not much os running that works well. 16 hammer master, 10 strength 9 smiting. Earthshaker-->mighty-->crushing-->hammer bash-->holy strike. Its knocklock plus a decent dmg spike. Gotta run it under frenzy though.

Taurus · Oct 20, 2005, 02:27 AM // 02:27

KD/AS Is very effective against casters, period.
But stances warrs and rangers pwn them, to avoid ranger warrs stances and have something to kd without hitting, I use gale so heres the Pwning W/E I use for tombs :

Atts : Air 5, Earth 11, Str 4 ( 5 ), Hammer 12 ( 16 )
Weapons : Furious Hammer of Hammer mastery or any other grip u want, but the haft has to be furious.

- Slots 1,2 and 3 you use your fav. hammer knockdown skills and skills that goes tru evade or block ( I usually take Wild blow if I'm anti warr )
- Slot 4 --> Aftershock Slot 5 --> Gale, wich you shouldnt use often ( causes exhaustion ) unless your getting hexed or blinded, making ur not completely useless blinded or missing attacks.
- Slot 6 --> Use you fav dmg skill, I use crystal wave or crushing blow
- Slot 7 --> Anti runner skill, Can be sprint, or bulls charge if you havent used any elites in slots 1,2 or 3.
- Slot 8 --> Sig of capture coz you wont need to ress anyone since you've pwnt the game =]

The armor set of course should be Gladiator's of course ( with stoneskin gauntlets and Dwarven helmet ), and if you want more nrgy, use a stone staff ( I use galigord's to look good

) as secondary wep, wich can be used in cases of exhaustion or lack of nrgy to sprint, knockdown and interrupt enemies ( gale is gr8 for interrupt ).
What I use is a series of KD skills, delivering crushing blow, then when the enemy is about to get up I use gale and AS, if you time it right, it works awesomly.

Weak points : After using skills for a while, your rendered useless but even without nrgy, Hammer 16 is a high dmg.
Hexes and conds render you down easily, but hey, whos immune to hexes and conds anyway ?

Stances might get tru you if you dont have the right set of hammer skills.
U take a lot of dmg due to the lack of defenses.
Depending on the adrenal skills ur using, it might take a long time to charge kd skills.

Strong points : Deliver a High quantity of dmg in a short period of time, plus rendering the enemy useless while hitting him, has counters if ur disabled with hexes and conds. If you time skills right, you can pwn almost anything, too bad most of ppl cant time it.

Bast · Oct 20, 2005, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Ignore the posts between mine. Clues apparently haven't been passed out yet.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Oct 20, 2005, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bast

Ignore the posts between mine. Clues apparently haven't been passed out yet.

Sure thing, Comic Book Guy.

Meimei · Oct 20, 2005, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Aftershock sounds really nice on written paper, but when it comes in reality it is very poor.

1. if you want to do high aftershock dmg you need to sacrifice dmg on hammer attacks. remember, each bit of hammer attack is weaken.
2. aftershock can only be use after knockdown.
3. dmg on aftershock is about 100-110 with 10 skills and 16 hammer skills, deals 80-120 which is about same, and aftershock easly get resisted.
4. it takes 3/4 secs to cast aftershock and complete stops you for 2 secs which stop you about 3 secs for using an aftershock, 3 secs with frenzy speed you can strike hammer attacks/skill 3 times, 3 separate attacks which you can deal a lot more dmg then aftershock.

if you think aftershock can deal out highest dmg, you are wrong because 16 hammer deals way more and ppl do not realize because everybody is BLIND BY ONE HIGH DMG AND BE LIKE OMG IT OWNS.

twicky_kid · Oct 20, 2005, 03:55 AM // 03:55

after using KD/AS i found it to be really ineffective while using devistating hammer. if you use earthshaker + AS for a group spike it works great. other than that weaken armor + hammer > KD/AS. 90 dmg regular attacks makes them nervous.

Bast · Oct 20, 2005, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

Sure thing, Comic Book Guy.

There's a guy in Temple of Ages selling Ectoplasm for 6k. Get to it.

stelliosm · Oct 20, 2005, 05:17 AM // 05:17

i find a nice kd/as build to be, beserker stance > dev hammer > crushing blow > heavy blow > aftershock

this way you get yur adrenaline nice and fast for dev hammer, and have enough mana to run the beserker, crushing and aftershock at 20 mana.

I also agree that hammer warriors are mainly for interupting purposes, and if there is only 1 warrior, he should be w/r axer instead of a w/e war. W/e war should be only bourgth if its 1 w/r 1 w/e or 2 w/e for dual kd's and dual aftershock on kd'ed target.

I also pack irresitable blow in my skill bar, sprint, res sig.

Iresistable blow does about the same amount of dmg as as, but as does have aoe effect, and i only really use it if im going to be damagin more than one enemy, even if there is only one enemy kd'ed.

audioaxes · Oct 20, 2005, 05:22 AM // 05:22

yes i forgot to mention in my other post.... AS is very overrated. 10 energy for about 100 damage (about the same amount of damage from other hammer spikes) is very inefficient. You are better off doing a mighty > devastating > crushing > heavy > irresitable combo and putting your skill points into something more useful. When i fool around in comp arenas i like to bring hex breaker (even after it was nerfed) to help fend off the flood necros and mesmers that target warriors.
Without aftershock you can also use irresitable alot more which in imo, is just about the best 5energy warrior attack there is.