Curse

Tak-Hunter · Oct 18, 2005, 04:18 PM // 16:18

I'm wondering about the diferent kind of damages.

For example, I have 4 diferent bows, a fire, cold, lighting, and piercing damage, but I never know what is the best choice for farming or for gvg, I know that rangers and warriors armors sometimes have more defence against fire, lighting, cold or physical damage, but what is the best choice?

thanks

NatalieD · Oct 18, 2005, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man With No Name

Casters have the least amount of armour vs. Physical / Piercing damage whilst Melee types have the highest armour against Physical / Piercing damage. And it's vice-versa for armour against Elemental ( Fire, Water, Lightning, Earth )

Ranger armour is the best of both worlds -- a solid defense against Physical and Elemental.

Er, no. Warriors have the best armor vs physical, rangers have the best vs. elemental, and casters have crappy armor vs everything.

Warrior base armor: 80, +10 vs physical
Ranger base armor: 70, +30 vs elemental
Caster base armor: 60, +nothing vs anything

"base" meaning not counting any special traits of particular armor sets, nor any armor from shields or weapon mods.

NatalieD · Oct 18, 2005, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man With No Name

Please actually take a look at Caster armour before you try and correct someone ( helps if you remove your head from your behind):

Quote:

Warrior armor can be anything from Base 80-85 with +10-20 vs Physical

Ranger armour is Base 70 with +30 vs Elemental ( +15 more against a certain type you don't pick Druids )

Elementalist armour is Base 60 + 15 vs Elemental

Monks can get +5 vs Elemental pieces

Mesmers can get +15 Armour whilst Casting

I explicitly excluded the special bonuses of the different armor sets from my list. They don't affect the point at hand, which is that warriors have better elemental armor than casters, and rangers have even better.

Ollj · Oct 18, 2005, 09:01 PM // 21:01

http://www.guildwiki.org/wiki/Damage
klick trough from there, its incomplete but better than nothing

NatalieD · Oct 18, 2005, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man With No Name

So by your logic a Warrior with 80AL +20 vs Physical has more armour than an Elementalist with 60AL +15 AL vs. Lightning -- when they're both being hit by lightning...

Uh... the last time I checked, 80 was more than 75. Did they change that while I wasn't looking?

Phades · Oct 18, 2005, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

Uh... the last time I checked, 80 was more than 75. Did they change that while I wasn't looking?

Actually 80 becomes 60 against lightning, while 60 becomes 45, but you add +15. Thats why warriors are softer targets than rangers are for elementalists.

NatalieD · Oct 18, 2005, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Actually 80 becomes 60 against lightning, while 60 becomes 45, but you add +15.

So the bonus armor isn't subject to armor penetration? Weird.

Even so, that leaves the warrior and the aeromancer with equal AL against lightning.

Quote:

Thats why warriors are softer targets than rangers are for elementalists.

They would be softer no matter how penetration is calculated.

Phades · Oct 18, 2005, 10:52 PM // 22:52

If you really want to nit pick, you can play with things like armor of earth as well, since its added on top of everything afterwards.

NatalieD · Oct 19, 2005, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

If you really want to nit pick, you can play with things like armor of earth as well, since its added on top of everything afterwards.

Certainly, armor of earth makes its caster a harder target than any unenchanted player, if you can't strip/shatter/rend it. But if you start counting defensive skills, we could be here all night.

(Incidentally, not all lightning damage is armor-penetrating.

)

Phades · Oct 19, 2005, 07:35 AM // 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

(Incidentally, not all lightning damage is armor-penetrating.

)

Have fun using lightning surge till your exhaustion locked then switching over to conjure for that load of non-penetrating air damage. Whirlwind is listed as cold damage, while the condition producers, hexes, and gale don't cause damage.

NatalieD · Oct 20, 2005, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Have fun using lightning surge till your exhaustion locked then switching over to conjure for that load of non-penetrating air damage.

Are you implying that I would use Lightning Surge? You'll hear from my second, sirrah!

Seriously, how the heck do you get from "not all lightning damage is armor-penetrating" to "a build based on non-penetrating lightning damage would be awesome"?

entropy · Oct 20, 2005, 01:47 AM // 01:47

nice trolling guys

Tak-Hunter · Oct 20, 2005, 02:30 AM // 02:30

At least now I have an ideia of how it works. thanks

Just like the topic became a armor-about one I have a question about the 15k armors, do they really get something else if you use the full set?

In the rangers armors, what do I get using the full set(s)?

NatalieD · Oct 20, 2005, 02:50 AM // 02:50

15k armors don't do anything different than the 1.5k armors from Droknar's. Except look cool.

There is no bonus for using a whole set of the same armor.

twicky_kid · Oct 20, 2005, 04:02 AM // 04:02

only dmg i can't explain is earth. we did a test against an elementalist pyro armor with a warrior fire and earth weapon. hit the ele 5 times with fire sword then avged dmg. switched to earth sword and hit ele's pyro armor and avged dmg. the fire did more dmg vs the pryo armor than the earth did.

just can't figure it out.

unienaule · Oct 20, 2005, 04:08 AM // 04:08

5 times isn't very many. Try a lot more, say 100 or 500.

twicky_kid · Oct 20, 2005, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

5 times isn't very many. Try a lot more, say 100 or 500.

just because you increase the number of hits it won't matter you're still dividing it.

i could do 10 hits and would still come out the same.

don't know how fire does more dmg vs pyro armor than earth does. like i said can't figure it out.

QuixotesGhost · Oct 20, 2005, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

just because you increase the number of hits it won't matter you're still dividing it.

You increase the sample size to remove the effect of random chance. It's like flipping a coin 5 times, having them all come up heads and concluding that flipped coins will always come up heads.

(reature111 · Oct 21, 2005, 05:55 PM // 17:55

ditto what ghost said; as your weapon is either 19-35,15-22, or 6-28 (hopefully). if ur axe hit for say, 28 dmg each time then yes u can hit him one time then make the comparison in types of dmg. but since the bloody range is so big (especially with axe) then u need to sit there and tank him for quite a while to be sure of anything at all. 500 hits would get you a pretty accurate rendering me thinks, but even 100 hits is still kinda iffy

Epinephrine · Oct 21, 2005, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by (reature111

ditto what ghost said; as your weapon is either 19-35,15-22, or 6-28 (hopefully). if ur axe hit for say, 28 dmg each time then yes u can hit him one time then make the comparison in types of dmg. but since the bloody range is so big (especially with axe) then u need to sit there and tank him for quite a while to be sure of anything at all. 500 hits would get you a pretty accurate rendering me thinks, but even 100 hits is still kinda iffy

500 would seem excessive; 100 should be plenty to get a reasonable average. What you are looking at is getting the standard error down low on the measurement, which is a function of the standard deviation and the sample size; s.e = s.d./(N)^1/2, so with your number distibuted across 15-22 (the broadest spread) in a uniform distribution (we assume these are uniform?) you can get a pretty accurate guess. Essentially if you want to talk about your sample you should look at the sample mean calculated (which is also your estimate of the population mean), and construct a confidence interval around it. Look up student t tests for more info.

Looking at it, 100 hits should give you an estimate with 95% confidence in a range of about +/- 1.5 ; going to 500 only cuts that by a factor of 2 or so, not a huge improvement.