Curse

Rey Lentless · May 31, 2005, 05:16 PM // 17:16

It looks like the armor guide is outdated. Almost all of the numbers are different than what I see in the game now.

Aragorn Elessara · Jun 01, 2005, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Is it better to wear one piece of armor from knights with the rest in plate armor or the full set of plate armor ? Which one will give more dmg melee reduction ? Thanks

Lim-Dul · Jun 01, 2005, 11:10 PM // 23:10

OK pple - don't talk about things you have no clue of.

It's NOT enough to wear one piece of Knight's/Ascalon armor.

Read my post here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=12481

For all the unbelievers on rune/armor stacking. Test your armor against some fixed dmg guy. Put the absorption rune (Major or Minor one) on either your boots or gauntlets (Ascalon or Knight's Set of Course) and look at the damage - what you will notice is that the damage will vary because of hit locations - but that's not all, now use the set WITHOUT the rune (you have to have another clean pair of boots/gaunts) and note the damage again.

I don't want to go into details, but the results you'll get will CLEARLY show that runes and armor dmg reduction DOES stack and that you have to have a WHOLE set if you want to benefit from it 100% of the time.

It's funny how people claim things without testing them correctly. It's just like with the Hale Staff Heads and the Staff Wrappings of Fortitude - how many pple claimed that the boni don't stack, heh? Well - try to put both upgrades on your staff and start to wonder. -.-

P.S. My information is not only based on MY test, but it was later confirmed through an almost official channel... If you want to use your Platemail Armor - go ahead, I won't stop you, I'm using it myself, nevertheless don't freaking claim that the Knight's/Ascalon sets are useless just because some smartass once claimed that they were and everybody belived him/her - now just about EVERYBODY is sure that it's useless because nobody took the trouble of trying it out properly or asking a person who would know for sure. Maybe it was the same smartass to claim that Dragon Swords are better than anything else...

Xavz · Jun 02, 2005, 01:27 AM // 01:27

I've rarely seen Ensign get his data wrong.

Lim-Dul · Jun 02, 2005, 10:02 AM // 10:02

Well - as much as I honour his work elsewhere this time he apparently IS wrong. If you still don't belive me, then I will have to post some screens - this would mean a lot of work though, cause I would have to show you around 20 damage samples for each armor piece and several combinations.
Nevertheless I don't feel obliged to do this as I actually bothered to ask the GW-Support Team this very question and their answer proved my being right.

filter · Jun 02, 2005, 10:17 AM // 10:17

Kindly share your question to and the reply from the GW Support team for the benefit of everyone?

Red Locust · Jun 02, 2005, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Ok even if one piece does not blanket the whole set, what does it matter? It was shown earlier in this thread that the extra 5AL on platemail is better than the -2 damage reduction from knights, and it always keeps its effectiveness even when hit by a 100dmg lightning orb. Why would you possibly want do use Knights armor?

Lim-Dul · Jun 02, 2005, 04:58 PM // 16:58

The calculations were based on wrong data. It's true, that the 5 AL more will be more effective when it comes to high-damage attacks, but they will be less effective when it comes to low-dmg attacks. It will also come in handy when it comes to attacks that omit armor (IW). Just like I said - it depends on what you'll be using your armor for - I'll post the replies from ANet when I find them in my gigantic E-Mail archive. ^^

P.S. Don't forget the lightning orb's armor penetration - I'm not so sure about the figures there.

Ensign · Jun 02, 2005, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Straight Platemail is better than straight Knight's on physical attacks that deal 35 damage or more and magical attacks that deal 41 damage or more. Knight's becomes better when using a shield or other defensive buffs as well.

Platemail with Knight's boots or gloves is the combination with the best defense, period.

Peace,
-CxE

Quietus · Jun 03, 2005, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Do the effects of any absorption rune (Minor/Major/Superior) stack with the effects of Knights/Ascalon armor?

Lim-Dul · Jun 03, 2005, 08:11 AM // 08:11

I belive this is just what I've said - YES they do.

Ensign · Jun 03, 2005, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quietus

Do the effects of any absorption rune (Minor/Major/Superior) stack with the effects of Knights/Ascalon armor?

No. Only the strongest relevant effect works. If you have a Superior Absorption rune in Knights you'll see -3 damage from physical damage and -2 damage from all other damage. Minor and Major Absorption runes have no effect, as the Knight's reduction is at least tied for strongest effect.

Peace,
-CxE

Aromane · Jun 03, 2005, 12:35 PM // 12:35

I'm going to wait for them to reskin the 15ks and hopefully make the 15k gladiator look like I'm not a Chip n' Dales dancer.

Ensign · Jun 03, 2005, 05:14 PM // 17:14

I'm going to re-test Knight's / Platemail / Absorption tonight to see if they've changed it to work properly. Results will be posted shortly.

Peace,
-CxE

Moskel · Jun 03, 2005, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Does Spectral Agony hit your W/ for 1 damage? It hits mine and I'm wearing that useless armor with a useless Superior Absorption rune stacked on it. It is easy to get +armor bonuses from skills, you can't get absorption bonuses.

The above example citing 30 damage attacks is a single point in a non-linear graph (non-linear for anyone with absorption). Lets just say we have one person with -7 absorption and they reduce all damage to 50% and some other guy with 0 absorption and they reduce all damage to 25%.

Damage <> Absorption / Non-absorption

100 <> 43 / 25
50 <> 18 / 12
30 <> 8 / 7
20 <> 3 / 4
15 <> 0 / 4

So what is absorption good for? It is great for taking lots of smaller hits, while your Platemail warrior can get overrun by 50 Charr Axe Fiends I can go take a nap and come back tomorrow while they all wildly swing away.

The testing people have done is completely flawed because not all attacks have a random dispersion of location (i.e. some spells always hit the chest, so do some attacks, if some mobs fire a bow from higher elevation they have a higher chance to hit your head, etc). The only way to really test this is by using fixed damage skills that have a random location dispersion in a GvG against a scrimmage guild. I'm not going to go into details about how you can get fixed damage on melee attacks but it can be done.

As AC goes up and the % reduction goes up the absorption becomes that much more powerful because it continues to have a flat reduction rather than a gradually reducing percentage.

SonOfRah · Jun 03, 2005, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lim-Dul

Well - as much as I honour his work elsewhere this time he apparently IS wrong. If you still don't belive me, then I will have to post some screens - this would mean a lot of work though, cause I would have to show you around 20 damage samples for each armor piece and several combinations.
Nevertheless I don't feel obliged to do this as I actually bothered to ask the GW-Support Team this very question and their answer proved my being right.

And you good sir, must realise that you are completely incorrect. Do check my reply to your post over at gwonline. And please, if the devs were going to publically confirm/release the dmg equation, I would of been the one of the first to get hold of it.

Aragorn Elessara · Jun 03, 2005, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonOfRah

And you good sir, must realise that you are completely incorrect. Do check my reply to your post over at gwonline. And please, if the devs were going to publically confirm/release the dmg equation, I would of been the one of the first to get hold of it.

Could you show us the link to that post on gwonline ? Thanks.

Ensign · Jun 03, 2005, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Tested a few minutes ago.

One piece of Knight's Armor gives a universal -2 damage modifier. Multiple pieces of Knight's Armor do not stack.

Absorption runes now stack properly with the bonus from Knight's Armor.

Superior Absorption plus Knight's Boots stacks for a total of -5 damage per hit.

Peace,
-CxE

Lament Messon · Jun 03, 2005, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Ensign and Lim-Dul are coming up with two different suggestions on this armor discussion. Looking at the posted information it seems like they have butted heads on this with no conclusion before.

They seem to agree that in the high end you are better off with plate mail, but according to ensign one piece of knight/plate is still beneficial, as well as outfitting an absorbsion rune.

As a relatively new player without the fundage (or the amount of time needed) to test these theories is it possible to come to a final conclusion? I don't know if the developing team reads any of this stuff, but armor seems to be one of the big mysteries out there.

As I see it items with inherent abilities such as the head items increasing an ability are able to be augmented by additional runes, I know that is true. Also if an item has inherent bonuses, such as additional health, other upgrades stack. So, using that logic I would assume that an absorbsion rune would stack with the inherent effect of absorbsion in knight/ascalon armor. However my question is whether the ITEMS effects are cumulative. I know that the AC is accounted based on the spot hit (chest, legs, hands, arms, feet), but is ONE knight/ascalon item all that is needed or will the dam reduction only be applied if the damage hits the site for that item.

Lastly I understand that based on ALL other runes that multiple absorbsion runes will not be effective, but I could do with some numbers on that as well. This could all be taken care of with a numerical stat like health and energy...could be VERY beneficial...this is my first post. I will post in the GW suggestions forum later.

-Lament

Ensign · Jun 03, 2005, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote: