Curse

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 19, 2005, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Getting this to work out perfectly isn't going to be easy. Then again, nothing is right? ^_^ I've got some spare time so I think I'll go ahead and give the lowdown on this 4v4 [and could be modified to 8v8 if you're willing to take the time to read up] all warrior no-res sig team.

Idea? Dash of IWAY and LOTS of Fear!! ^_^
[runes are assumed]

W/N - Target Caller, Debuffer

16 Axe/9 strength/8 tactics/8 curses

Swift Chop
Eviscerate {E}
Executioner's Strike
Fear Me!!
Frenzy
Sprint
Plague Touch
Rend Enchantments

[my main build, the high damage, anti-energy, debuffer mix. Quite deadly]

W/R - High damage, anti-ressurection build
16 Axe/9 Strength/8 Tactics/8 Wilderness Survival

Swift Chop
Eviscerate {E}
Executioner's Strike
Fear Me!!
Frenzy
Sprint
Antidote Signet
Frozen Soil

W/Mo - Massive Shutout, KD, anti-hex build
16 Hammer/9 Strength/10 Smiting

Devastating Hammer {E}
Crushing Blow
Hammer Bash
Irresistable Blow
Frenzy
Sprint
Holy Strike
Smite Hex

W/Mo - Royal Bodyguard, good healing, anti-everything build

12 Strength/9 Swordsmanship/9 Protection Prayers/8 Healing Prayers

Warrior's Endurance {E}
Warrior's Cunning
Watch Yourself!!
I Will Avenge You!!
Mend Ailment
Remove Hex
Convert Hexes
Vigorous Spirit / Healing Breeze / etc. (Your choice of either spike heal or long lasting enchant heal. fast recycle times a must. ^_^)

A somewhat modified take on my older version of a 4 warrior team. 2 of the warriors can deal with hexes and 3 of them can deal with conditions. The very things that shut a warrior out for the game has been dealt with accordingly. Two of the warriors now carry Fear Me!! generating a nice AoE energy degen of 4+ pips. That's already enough to keep casters at 0 energy indefinitely. Warriors and Rangers are out of the fight in terms of energy as well.

Who's the W/Mo bodyguard going to hit if he can't sprint after anyone? Enemy warriors hitting you of course! ^_^ That'll feed his energy vaccuum that is Warrior's Endurance and feed his nice anti-everything skills that he'll so desperately need.

I'll probably come up with another 4 warrior build with a bit more independance technique thrown in but it's rather iffy. Note, this CAN be considered a serious build if you intend on thinking it through. I'd like to try it and some of my guildmates think so too.

Makkert · Oct 19, 2005, 06:41 AM // 06:41

IWAY in a 4 player team without pets?

One and Two · Oct 19, 2005, 06:48 AM // 06:48

yup. that's all, folks.

Rico Carridan · Oct 19, 2005, 06:52 AM // 06:52

In 4v4, I think you'll run into trouble. 8v8 will depend on your other players, I guess. Your damage output is good, if you can hit, and that's big if. Aegis, ward of melee, a variety of necro and mesmer hexes, traps, etc. will disable this build. Considering the popularity of IWAY these days, I think it is safe to count on seeing some variety of those on any good team. And while Fear Me! will restrict the enemy's energy output, you need to get adrenaline to use Fear Me!, which you can't get if you can't hit. I realise that you do have hex and condition removal available to you to some degree, but that doesn't solve all of those issues.

I don't know if this will work as an IWAY build particularly well, because, as was mentioned earlier, you don't have pets, so the only corpses you have available are those of dead comrades.

Rico

smurfhunter · Oct 19, 2005, 09:47 AM // 09:47

whats funny is you use iway and no res signets and no pets... thats like asking for it.

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 20, 2005, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Only 2 of the builds use IWAY. This means that it's NOT a pure IWAY build. It uses IWAY as a support rather than a primary tactic. Heck, only 1 of the builds truely needs IWAY in any case, the W/Mo healer...

If you see IWAY and HAVE to have a pure strategy around it, then maybe you should try thinking outside the box and realize that IWAY can help a crew rather than BE a crew...

smurfhunter · Oct 20, 2005, 06:19 PM // 18:19

so basically, your team is meant to get stronger as they kill members of it, until the point when everyone dies. then your team experiences true nirvana.

Reiden Argrock · Oct 26, 2005, 06:14 PM // 18:14

wow, people need to come up with a way to get rid of IWAY, cause it's just making people dumb now...

The build that is so popular right now, is using IWAY as it's primary skill.. in this 4v4 build, I Will Avenge You, the skill is a bonus, that means, kill one, and the rest go down easier, and since it is not the focus of the build, it won't be as easy to shutdown this all warrior team, where as the IWAY build, is known, and people are ready for it.

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 28, 2005, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reiden Argrock

wow, people need to come up with a way to get rid of IWAY, cause it's just making people dumb now...

The build that is so popular right now, is using IWAY as it's primary skill.. in this 4v4 build, I Will Avenge You, the skill is a bonus, that means, kill one, and the rest go down easier, and since it is not the focus of the build, it won't be as easy to shutdown this all warrior team, where as the IWAY build, is known, and people are ready for it.

Well done. IWAY is only one 1 of the warrior's here and since the build was designed so that nobody can get back up, one IWAY [buffering Warrior's Endurance] wouldn't hurt at all really. IWAY is used for its attack speed bonus so if the character is using a stance based ias, the shout that is IWAY will make it work faster... Warrior's Endurance with IWAY means more energy, more heals, etc... Which is what we'd need if someone on the team goes down.

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 28, 2005, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

so basically, your team is meant to get stronger as they kill members of it, until the point when everyone dies. then your team experiences true nirvana.

Only one of them has IWAY. How else are you going to enhance Warrior's Endurance?

Need a high e.regen healer/protector so I'd like to see you try better... This is a theme build for fun but I've seen a four war team work before vs. a more balanced group...

Ele/Mo, Mo/Me, Me/Ne, and W/N lost to a four war team using Frozen Soil. They knew what was going on so I'd suggest again, think outside the box...

striderkaaru · Oct 28, 2005, 03:22 PM // 15:22

i agree that a good all warrior team can effectively shutdown anyone with the right build. however, this is only provided that they can reach their targets. but it would be fun toying around with a build like that.

if each warrior attacks a different target and can shut down that target, that's 4 warriors dealing heavy damage to 4 targets who can't do much. provided the right builds, they can easily roll over most teams.

yukito, if you want company toying around with builds, i've got a w/me i can throw into the mix.

Morganas · Oct 28, 2005, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Yeah it can do well, but a good 4v4 build should be able to go on win streaks of indefinite length (which usually seems oddly easy to do, can't remember the last time I've stopped playing 4v4 due to a loss with my guild as opposed to just getting tired and leaving or all of us getting bored and going to tombs).

There's nothing controversial about going monkless in 4v4, it's pretty effective, but while you'll completely own probably more then half of the teams, if their team has even one warding ele, trapper, water ele, or necro hexer (you won't get past their cover hexing on any but the w/mo), you're beaten.

Though, I guess TA is just for fun, and this would be fun, so ignore my post!

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 28, 2005, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

i agree that a good all warrior team can effectively shutdown anyone with the right build. however, this is only provided that they can reach their targets. but it would be fun toying around with a build like that.

if each warrior attacks a different target and can shut down that target, that's 4 warriors dealing heavy damage to 4 targets who can't do much. provided the right builds, they can easily roll over most teams.

yukito, if you want company toying around with builds, i've got a w/me i can throw into the mix.

You can add me on your friend's list. [see profile]

I did have a W/Me made specifically to follow the W/Mo's hammer role of complete shutdown from my old build. Thing is, it's a sword based build since it uses a secondary elite...

12+1+3 Swordsmanship
8+1 Strength
10 Inspiration

Hamstring
Sever Artery
Savage Slash
Galrath Slash
Frenzy
Sprint
Energy Drain {E}
Shatter Hex

A rather basic build but designed to take strain off of the W/Mo bodyguard using anti-hex skills. I was thinking of using Inspired Hex but Inspired Hex just takes too long... 20s. vs. the 10s. for Shatter Hex. "Ah, but it's too energy intensive!!" Why's E. Drain in there for? ^_^ Shatter Hex really isn't for damage, it's to keep the team going. If the W/Mo gets clobbered by Diversion/Backfire, etc. Shatter Hex will take the place of Smite Hex. [though it can't match it's efficiency since it works in smiting and is only 5e. for 15s. recycle.]

striderkaaru · Oct 28, 2005, 05:34 PM // 17:34

i was thinking more of a complete shutdown build for the w/me. some of the builds i was considering would be:

domination/hammer/strength

sprint
for great justice
blackout
devastating hammer {e}
crushing blow
hammer bash
shatter hex/inspired hex
(some other skill)

or:

sprint
blackout
dwarven battle stance {e}
hammer bash
crushing blow
shatter hex/inspired hex
(some other skill)
(some other skill)

the other skills can either be attacks like irresistable blow or a utility skill. the only issue i would see might be energy management.

the point would be to stick this person on the monk or mesmer on the opposing team and keep them locked using blackout, knockdowns, and interrupts. everything can be chained together given a good energy management strategy.

i haven't quite worked out the kinks in the builds. my main problem is that i am in a primarily pve guild, and most pvp pugs don't like taking in strange builds. it would be cool to have people to toy around with. i'll definitely add you to my list.

smurfhunter · Oct 29, 2005, 12:16 PM // 12:16

blackout on a warrior, especially hammer warrior, is a big no no. you lose all adrenaline when you use it. good luck charging devastating hammer....

if you want 'shutdown' from a warrior try w/e with gale/shock/distracting blow or w/me for cry of frustration/leech signet. both do the same thing about. oh and you would have to use an axe in both since you would need the focus item if you want to use those skills

Chev of Hardass · Oct 31, 2005, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Two of the warriors now carry Fear Me!! generating a nice AoE energy degen of 4+ pips. That's already enough to keep casters at 0 energy indefinitely. Warriors and Rangers are out of the fight in terms of energy as well.

What, really? Fear Me takes off 4 pips of energy regen?

Read the skills again.

Yukito Kunisaki · Nov 01, 2005, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chev of Hardass

What, really? Fear Me takes off 4 pips of energy regen?

Read the skills again.

Use your head.

A warrior using 8 tactics spamming fear me is 3e. per 4s.
1 pip of regen is 1e./3s.
3 pips of regen is 3e./3s.

So if you have 2 warriors shouting their heads off, that's 6e./4s.

OVER 3 PIPS of regen. I know how to read, seems you don't know how to do math...

Chev of Hardass · Nov 01, 2005, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Na, you are assuming that both warriors will be in fear me range, and they will not be shut down.

If you really want to make that claim, you need to say.....

If everyone stays in "Fear Me" range, the Warriors are not denied adrenaline, and the warriors are willing to give up thier attack skill for "Fear Me" every single time that it charges, these two warriors will be able to create some good energy denial on nearby foes.

That is assuming that your High Damage dealer can afford the lowered DPS of using "Fear Me"

No, "Fear Me" in ideal conditions may be able to remove a measured amout of energy, but in real world conditions, it is all a crapshoot.

I would just cast a little buddy called Ward Against Melee, and watch you go miss miss miss. I would hardley call that a specialized counter to your build., and good luck gaining adrenaline with that up.

All in all I think this is a decent gimmik build, but a well coordinated balanced build will shut you down with far more effencient healing, protection, energy denial, and DPS.

smurfhunter · Nov 01, 2005, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Use your head.

A warrior using 8 tactics spamming fear me is 3e. per 4s.
1 pip of regen is 1e./3s.
3 pips of regen is 3e./3s.

So if you have 2 warriors shouting their heads off, that's 6e./4s.

OVER 3 PIPS of regen. I know how to read, seems you don't know how to do math...

stop simplifying this beyond recognition, fear me take 4 * 1.25 seconds to charge, which is 5 seconds, not 4. then that can be reduced by 33%, and depends largely on kiting, missing, etc etc.