Curse

Chev of Hardass · Oct 31, 2005, 09:52 PM // 21:52

I am a primary warrior, and I have been there-
-I play target calling warrior for my guild in GvG (we are currently 113)
-My PvE Warrior is just shy of 2 mil exp
-Said Warrior has beaten the game and all of the "hard" missions and quests and all that
-My PvE warrior has aquired enough stuff and skills/skill points to play in PvP for me. Any profession, any set-up.

That said, I am learning to play monk. I spent the weekend in the Ascalon Arena and saw one glaring thing ruining my healing experiance.

Many young warriors are using Frenzy to boost thier attack speed, and when they get down to ~50% health they use Healing Signet, then Endure Pain.

I, as a Boon monk wait till my healing spells will be used to close to thier fullest potential (somewhere just over 50% health) before I start a heal.

Here is what I see,
-A warrior uses Frenzy, thier health starts going down really fast. No problem, I start healing them.
-While I am casting, they use Healing Signet. During this time Frenzy is still active and they are getting double damge from -40 armor. Ascalon Armor is 50AL AL, so they have 10AL total armor at this time. I am mad at this point, but I am frantically trying to keep up healing, and what I see is a health bar that is going down at an amazing rate.
-Just as I am getting thier health stabilized (usually I am happy to keep them above 50% health by now) they use Endure Pain.

Problem solved, right? No!!!! The problem is that a healer is not disigned to heal only one target. A healer is designed to heal an entire party, and you are wasting the monks valueable energy by using skills that are only causing you to take more damage.

Here is what happens. After that warrior appears to be back near a safe health level, they start Frenzy again, but now another party member is needing medical attantion, and deserve it just as much as the Frenzy Healing Sig abuser. Well, Endure pain is about to wear off and the warrior is getting damage, so they use the ultra damage taking combo Healing Signet + Frenzy. The end result, their health starts dropping really fast again, and Endure Pain wears off and boom, one dead warrior.

I believe that non-level 20, warriors, with less than Draknars armor should not use Frenzy That is debateable, and I am not here to argure that. I will declare that any warrior that uses healing signet with less than 80AL armor is only asking to die, but under no circumstances should you use both of them together. Following that combo with Endure Pain is about the worst thing you can do to a monk that is trying to keep you alive. When that wears off, you may as well just consider yourself dead, and you are doing more for your team dead, since you are taking no energy from the monks pool to keep your ultra 1337 hide alive.

I use Frenzy. I am a big believer in Frenzy, but I nevery carry Frenzy without a canceling stance, mine is either Sprint, or Bulls Charge. If you are being attacked, you better turn off Frenzy. If you are using Healing signet, you better have another stance that helps you evade attacks (in PvE), in PvP, there is no reason for Healing signet. You take so much more damage during this time that any healing you get from it will be negated by the extra damage that you take.

Some of you will argue that playing random arenas requires a build that is more self sufficent, but skills that cause you to take more damage are not self sufficent. I would rather see a Warrior use a defensive stance, or a healing spell than Healing Signet and Frenzy at the same time. I have won many random arena matches with all out offense builds (including Frenzy when I am not being attacked) and res sigs. The key there is to do as much damage as possible and res whoever dies so fast that all the res sig is a full health and energy replacement.

Next week, we will talk about res sigs, and how every warrior really only gets 7 skill spots because every warrior worth the wieght of their shield better have a res sig, or maybe people will catch on and start using them.

Sir Santiago · Oct 31, 2005, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Very solid post.

IMO, Endure Pain is a horrible skill for PvP. If your opponent is attacking you when you cast it, and they know what it does, they can just leave one person attacking and move to someone else. So what if you live for a few more seconds? Your health will drop right back down!

I'd also like to add to his post and say that instead of a heal spell like Healing Signet, bring something that will remove conditions or hexes. Most of the time, you won't be targeted first, except there is a good chance someone on the opposing team will blind you (and there are many ways to do this). So, to make it so you aren't totally useless, you can bring something like Mend Condition, Purge Condition, or Purge Signet to remove the blind as quickly as possible and keep attacking.

Tyrent Frath · Oct 31, 2005, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Santiago

Most of the time, you won't be targeted first, except there is a good chance someone on the opposing team will blind you (and there are many ways to do this). So, to make it so you aren't totally useless, you can bring something like Mend Condition, Purge Condition, or Purge Signet to remove the blind as quickly as possible and keep attacking.

i am a healing mo/me and i can vouch for this

i use signet of midnight {E} to blind pesky warriors who attack while im healing

most dont realize it and keep hacking away, and flame my strategy when the fight is over, but there's always a w/r who uses antidote signet, and that my friends, is the one flaw in my strategy.

Silent Wandarer · Nov 01, 2005, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Santiago

Very solid post.

IMO, Endure Pain is a horrible skill for PvP. If your opponent is attacking you when you cast it, and they know what it does, they can just leave one person attacking and move to someone else. So what if you live for a few more seconds? Your health will drop right back down!

I'd also like to add to his post and say that instead of a heal spell like Healing Signet, bring something that will remove conditions or hexes. Most of the time, you won't be targeted first, except there is a good chance someone on the opposing team will blind you (and there are many ways to do this). So, to make it so you aren't totally useless, you can bring something like Mend Condition, Purge Condition, or Purge Signet to remove the blind as quickly as possible and keep attacking.

endure pain owns for pvp if u know how to use it,

my build is frenzy (hex breaker cover) and endure pain for over extension

im currently rank 11 and have been in several top guilds

endure pain is worth having imo

Racthoh · Nov 01, 2005, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Endure Pain... haha, temporary life. Nothing funnier than being a monk and all of sudden your warrior loses 1/3 of their life and dies. Mind you, that is in PvE.

In PvP, last time I checked, if a warrior is being attacked it's not exactly difficult for a monk to keep a them alive. Plus, you'll probably win since they're basically wasting their time trying to kill your toughest target.

Sister Rosette · Nov 01, 2005, 11:43 AM // 11:43

/agreed.

Endure Pain should be renamed to Borrowed Time.
And fie on all the idiots out there that think it's a heal,
instead of the stall it really is.

torgan skullkrusher · Nov 01, 2005, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Ok I only play PVE so far, but i have finished the game with my W/Ne currently doing the titan quests.

I use Defy pain and Endure pain when tanking ,in some of the latter missions i found that i had enough health to outlast the other wars in the party and by the time i had a problem all the enemy were dead and the monk could do his healing bit on me.

So from my point of view i find them both usefull, and in fact life savers as they extended my ability to fight / draw the mobs to me while they were killed by the Eles Nuking and Ne using mark of pain etc especially with flurry.

Ollj · Nov 01, 2005, 02:28 PM // 14:28

you reported the classic frenzy lemming, just dont heal those.

bele · Nov 01, 2005, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Thanks for the advice Chev.

Got a Ele,Monk and Mesmer (see my avatar).

I've just created a Warrior to learn how to use it and how to counter it for my Mesmer (sorry, been a dedicated Me).

... and actually had begun to use it with Frenzy like mad. Well, i think i'll drop it from my skillbar and use another one.

Maya Saray - one warrior more in the block -

Chev of Hardass · Nov 02, 2005, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

you reported the classic frenzy lemming, just dont heal those.

Yea, this sounds great, but pride makes me look for flawless victories.

I keep running into tanks using Healing Signet in missions, too. Right now I think Healing signet is my least favorite skill.

50al – 40al=10, and even 80al armor puts you at less than a mesmer for armor, so tanking is out of the question.

Bele, I’m glad to hear you got something out of this. I guess if one player catches on I have served my purpose lurking these forums.

I won’t touch Endure Pain. I know it has its purposes. I used to rely on it for running, but anymore I have found that there is nothing a warrior can do better than deal damage, tank, or protect their party (shouts), so I leave gaining health up to the healers that are around me.

nightrunner · Nov 02, 2005, 02:16 AM // 02:16

I use Endure Pain when I'm running sometimes - it keeps me alive long enough to get away and use a few Healing sigs. Never use it in PvP.

I use Frenzy in PvP every once in a while - I just use the typical Sprint technique. Only downfall is if I get hit with a Lightning Orb or Obsidian Flame, it hurts bad. Usually I can make the switch before anything really painful happens though.

sirkillalot · Nov 02, 2005, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Tigers Fury

Divine Elemental · Nov 02, 2005, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Wandarer

endure pain owns for pvp if u know how to use it,

my build is frenzy (hex breaker cover) and endure pain for over extension

im currently rank 11 and have been in several top guilds

endure pain is worth having imo

LMAO

Endure Pain is not bad nor not good i saw a couple of good guilds use it and a couple laugh at it

and Frenzy is rpetty good...
i mean cmon.. nopn attribute related
5 energy
and u have sprint to cancel it..
use ur brains yo

Dmitri3 · Nov 02, 2005, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divine Elemental

LMAO

Endure Pain is not bad nor not good i saw a couple of good guilds use it and a couple laugh at it

and Frenzy is rpetty good...
i mean cmon.. nopn attribute related
5 energy
and u have sprint to cancel it..
use ur brains yo

Yea, I agree, it's not too good, nor too bad.
But then again, sprint isn't enough, you always need to have protection spirit on you. I've seen it: sudden spike on warrior using frenzy=dead.

Never underestimate your enemy!

Amei Leng · Nov 02, 2005, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Sure glad I have ranger to back up my Warrior. I got rid of healing sig long ago.
Start attack with apply poison, then TU, then frenzy.
If Im not being hit I lay on the frenzy hard, what ever Im hitting dont last long.
backed with the warrior sword skills.

Borak Bloodbane · Nov 02, 2005, 06:57 PM // 18:57

I like to just use the elite skill Battle Rage. Doesn't that do the same thing as frenzy but 10 times better? Sure it is an elite but i have not found an elite better to compliment my build which includes an energy stealing weapon.

Borak Bloodbane
Knights Who Say Nee

wheel · Nov 02, 2005, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

But then again, sprint isn't enough, you always need to have protection spirit on you. I've seen it: sudden spike on warrior using frenzy=dead.

How is sprint not enough? All that a warrior has to do when he begins to be attacked is cast a zero second cast time (that's right, zero seconds) skill that instantly cancels the -40 dmg penalty of frenzy. you hit sprint to cancel frenzy, and you don't have to worry about protective spirit. how hard is that to understand? a warrior being spiked while under frenzy takes a little more damage than a caster takes while being spiked. plus, warriors are attacked later in battle because they are the hardest to spike.

Chev of Hardass · Nov 02, 2005, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borak Bloodbane

I like to just use the elite skill Battle Rage. Doesn't that do the same thing as frenzy but 10 times better? Sure it is an elite but i have not found an elite better to compliment my build which includes an energy stealing weapon.

Borak Bloodbane
Knights Who Say Nee

Battle rage does charge your adrenaline skills twice as fast, but it does not change the rate that you swing your weapon. Wether it is a good choice for an elite or not is really up to the user and the situation. I like it, but I do not use it very often.

If you are keeping Prot Spirit on you, you better have previouly identified that that you are facing a Spike team and then the entire team is covered in Prot Spirit. So, I can see the validity in the Sprint statement. I would not keep Prot Spirit on a warrior just because he is using frenzy though. It is the reaponsibility of the warrior to cancel his Frenzy if he is spiked. Or the new target of a heavy damage dealer.

smurfhunter · Nov 02, 2005, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

Never underestimate your enemy!

you messed up. its actually Always underestimate your enemy!

and then theres the second part, which is

Always blame your monks!