Curse

Tary · Oct 11, 2005, 03:57 AM // 03:57

I wouldn't want to play my protector without a decent energy management.
And because I only got 1 slot left for that this has to be an elite.

I wouldnt put martyr on a prot or healer... give it to a monk secondary if you really need it.
I dont even consider restore condition / martyr neccesary...even with all those trappers around.
Conditions are usually faster reapplied than you can remove them and no trapper team managed to beat us, yet.
They are just fcking annoying -.-
So I guess you can be fine without those elites...depends on your build tho

Signet of Humility · Oct 11, 2005, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tary

I wouldn't want to play my protector without a decent energy management.
And because I only got 1 slot left for that this has to be an elite.

I wouldnt put martyr on a prot or healer... give it to a monk secondary if you really need it.
I dont even consider restore condition / martyr neccesary...even with all those trappers around.
Conditions are usually faster reapplied than you can remove them and no trapper team managed to beat us, yet.
They are just fcking annoying -.-
So I guess you can be fine without those elites...depends on your build tho

*Cough*
W/Mo Martyr + Purge Conditions

As Prot
I Bring

Prot Spirit
Shield of Deflection
Channeling
Convert Hex ( Healers Only Bring Inspired )
RoF
Shielding hands
Aegis
Guardian

Voltaire Arcanum · Oct 11, 2005, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Anyways, getting away from the abstract and getting to a solid build, how would this do?:

Shielding Hands
Prot Spirit
Aegis
Channeling
Mend Ailment
Restore Condition
Inspired Hex
Reversal

spend the entire game mending conditions, while putting prot spirit/shielding hands on anyone under serious attack. Aegis up whenever it recharges of course.

Hmm, this looks and sounds familiar! That is pretty much exactly the build I have been tinkering with if you switch out restore condition for martyr. That is exactly how I spend the entire game too.

As for e-drain, you are absolutely right Neo. I capped it only a few days before the update change, so I never actually used it before the update (I was busy doing other things before that... anyway), otherwise I wouldn't have needed to "ask the stupid question" because I would have just tried it myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

As for you channelling addicts, what do you do, just wade into the thickest portion of the enemy ranks and start casting? Usually I try to be as far away as possible while stillin healing range of my allies. .

I have been trying channeling, but don't quite get it either. When I'm monking, I try to stay as far from the big brutes with the axes and the fish breath as possible, so I don't seem to get much from channeling, and when I am low on energy its a bit late to remember to put it up. Well, maybe I should just go ask my guild officer about this, since he seems to have all the answers.

Hey Smurf, where are ya? ....

I don't know about giving up RoF though, I have seen many a completely dark red bar turn bright red at the bottom and then start jumping up as the healers get in on the action, often preceded by "*groan* I'm dead" and followed by disbelief that said dead person is still vertical. It is fast and effective for pulling someone back from the brink of death. It is my panic button, hit that first and you buy yourself and the healers perhaps enough time to keep someone on their feet despite their complete lack of blood. Then again, maybe I should just give up panicking?

Thanks for the insightful (+5) answers guys.

Voltaire Arcanum · Oct 11, 2005, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tary

I wouldn't want to play my protector without a decent energy management.
And because I only got 1 slot left for that this has to be an elite.

I wouldnt put martyr on a prot or healer... give it to a monk secondary if you really need it.
I dont even consider restore condition / martyr neccesary...even with all those trappers around.
Conditions are usually faster reapplied than you can remove them and no trapper team managed to beat us, yet.
They are just fcking annoying -.-
So I guess you can be fine without those elites...depends on your build tho

Amen.

It all depends on the build. Often no one else is dealing with conditions much because they expect the prot monk to, and sometimes you just gotta go with the flow and hope it doesn't lead down the drain.

smurfhunter · Oct 11, 2005, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltaire Arcanum

Hey Smurf, where are ya? ....

yea i havent been on gw in a few days... busy... ill try to be on tomorrow...

aaanyway i (personally) think restore conditions > martyr for a few reasons: much better recharge, so it holds up against really consistant condition spamming, and especially when everyones getting like 7 degen from bleeding + disease the heal from it really helps out the monks. otoh it takes alot longer to remove all of them. ive run both and i liked restore better, but w/e.

and if you run martyr on a monk secondary... like the w/mo... i never liked that because you are losing *alot* of damage on the warrior without an elite. i mean if your warrior is gonna go running around with a sword doing like 20 damage a hit, why dont you just take another monk and have him wand people? anyway i never liked secondary monks. and what exactly is the warrior gonna do when he blinds himself with it... purge has a longer recharge than martyr....

dansamy · Oct 11, 2005, 06:00 PM // 18:00

If you're gonna run Martyr on a */Mo, I believe the prot with Restore needs to be on the ball and swiftly follow that Martyr up with a Restore. Boom! Problem solved.

Neo-LD · Oct 11, 2005, 06:59 PM // 18:59

martyr on a warrior is bad b/c you always run the risk of hitting yourself up with weakness or blind.

White Designs · Oct 11, 2005, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Edrain got a sledgehammer nerf. It's barely usable now, and definitely not on a monk. And reversal is easily one of the best skills in the game.

Neo-LD · Oct 11, 2005, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Designs

Edrain got a sledgehammer nerf. It's barely usable now, and definitely not on a monk. And reversal is easily one of the best skills in the game.

what? maybe you cant use it to deny energy witha mesmer anymore, but in terms of monk-energy-management its never been better. (I feel like Im repeating myself

) The chance to get a bad drain off is now very low. THe total amount of energy gained is still the same. I fail to see how it suddenly became unusable. Indeed, for many monks, energy drain just went from iffy to awesome.

but i do agree reversal a great spell.

Zeru · Oct 11, 2005, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Neo it has a 30 second recharge now.

Offering nets twice as much therefore and makes it total garbage.

Neo-LD · Oct 11, 2005, 08:31 PM // 20:31

XD forgot lol. Inspiration has like 5 differnt spells you could back it up with though... w/e i like offering better anyways, just making the case that Edrain doesnt suck totally.

White Designs · Oct 11, 2005, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Sorry, I was just being lazy. Yeah, the recharge time is what makes drain and tap really bad.

JYX · Oct 11, 2005, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

Neo it has a 30 second recharge now.

Offering nets twice as much therefore and makes it total garbage.

Yeh. I fail to see how this is making it balanced, just the energy steal nerf would have been fine imo, not the recharge as well.

Taken at 10 insp.

11/30*3=1.1 pips plus 8 energy stolen gained by Edrain

compared with

13/20*3=1.95 pips from mantra of recall
6/20*3=0.9 pips plus hex removal from Inspired Hex
8/25*3=0.96 pips plus enchant removal from Drain Enchant

Edrain is Elite, Drain Enchant is not. I'm sacrificing my elite...for 0.14 pips of extra energy and the chance to do 4/5 of a debil shot every 30 seconds. When Offering can give twice? No thanks.

Yeah you could back it up with more Insp skills. But I'll back up Mantra of Recall with them, not Edrain.

smurfhunter · Oct 11, 2005, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everous

Mantra of Recall with them, not Edrain.

ive seen alot of monks (in gvgs mostly) using that.

and yea i totally forgot about the extra recharge on edrain. /doh good call there

rii · Oct 11, 2005, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Yeah, the rampant flaw in the argument for offering is, while good energy it is, a team that brings signet of humility, or even two soh, can really hurt you. At least with inspiration you are not only debuffing/hexing, but dont, ask the old saying goes, have all your eggs in one basket.

Arathorn5000 · Oct 12, 2005, 02:01 AM // 02:01

I'm interested in starting to play prot in tombs. What do you guys think of this ether prodigy build?

E/Mo

15 energy storage
10 protection prayers
11 earth magic

Defensive PvP earth staff of enchanting

reversal of fortune
mend ailment
shielding hands
ether prodigy {E}
ward against melee
aegis
guardian
protective spirit

The idea is to use your skills all day long without worrying about energy. Once you get down to ~10 energy you turn on EP. At that point you just keep casting your stuff, with the goal being to keep your energy level down. It's a 24 second duration with the staff mod. The goal is to have anywhere between 5 and 20 energy when EP ends, giving you a fairly minimal (10-40) amount of damage, and you turn it right back on.

The exhaustion is basically ignorable as well, considering you're playing at the low end of your energy bar anyway, not to mention 8/10 of the exhaustion wears off between castings.

Enchantment removal won't be too annoying, due to EP's low recharge and low cast cost, you should be able to turn it right back on.

With 10 pips of energy all the time, you're gaining 33 energy every 10 seconds....it's really just fun to play when your only energy concern is when you have too much and you need to spam your reversals and mend ailments even faster to get it down.

smurfhunter · Oct 12, 2005, 02:25 AM // 02:25

what happens when someone uses an enchant removal on you mid ether prodigies? im not 100% on the recharge of it but its not too fast if i remember this right.... could leave you in the deep end if you dont notice too.

and like rii said its putting all your energy management into one elite...

idk, i havent tried it but it sounds plausible at least

Arathorn5000 · Oct 12, 2005, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arathorn5000

Enchantment removal won't be too annoying, due to EP's low recharge and low cast cost, you should be able to turn it right back on.

Quoted for truth.

About signet of humility....come on, how often do we see it in competitive play? Besides, it would mangle any elite energy management. At worst, you're left with a bunch of good protection skills that you won't be able to spam *as much*.

edit: I take that back. Signet of humility would do jack squat against ether prodigy. Oh no, I can't use it for what, 13 seconds? Right when I can, I turn it on for 24 seconds of use...(over which time I gain 80 energy, enough to prot as I please).

Neo-LD · Oct 12, 2005, 03:10 AM // 03:10

but every time prodigy gets stripped you are gonna hurt pretty bad, + turning it back on opens the door for it to be removed again, so you could possibley spike yourself

for like 300 damage if you arent careful. Plus it causes exhaustion so recast is not exactly desireable.

JYX · Oct 12, 2005, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arathorn5000

About signet of humility....come on, how often do we see it in competitive play? Besides, it would mangle any elite energy management. At worst, you're left with a bunch of good protection skills that you won't be able to spam *as much*.

Not the point. Why take offering when you can go inspiration, have arguably more energy management, a hex remover, access to mantras AND be better off against signet of humility? Maybe you need the slots real bad, I dunno. But in any case its another tick in the tally chart for Inspiration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arathorn5000

edit: I take that back. Signet of humility would do jack squat against ether prodigy. Oh no, I can't use it for what, 13 seconds? Right when I can, I turn it on for 24 seconds of use...(over which time I gain 80 energy, enough to prot as I please).

No. Rii wasn't talking about using it against Ether Prodigy. Sure it would have a lesser effect. Though what he said implied using signet of humility alone, which I can't say I agree with unless in quite specific situations.
But.
The use of signet of humility is to keep them down slightly longer after you've sorted them good. I use it on an interrupt mesmer for that very purpose, also if I happen to run out of energy (rare that I'd miss my Drain...but it happens) I'll see to it that while I'm being inefficient, so are they. Also after 2 good interrupts containing at least one Leak, a humility is put on to stop them hitting the offering button, and I can move onto another target.

For fun, you can also use it on QS rangers, Hammer Warriors, BiP builds, poison arrowers...anything else where the elite is often spammed and/or is very critical.

Your E/Mo build is fairly standard and good. Might wanna consider 11 prot and 10/10 in earth and energy storage though. Main reason I don't use one is because I like to have martyr on the proter, so then theres no reason not to take divine favor. a reversal plus half an orison for 5 e seems like a good deal to me.