Curse

audioaxes · Nov 04, 2005, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

Actually Romo is sort of right...even in Comp Arenas. There's plenty of monks that can mend ailment and even with Dazed on them, it's not hard to run around in circles and stop to remove the condition.

Only an inexperienced Monk stands there trying to cast with Dazed on them while a warrior is wacking away. Personally I think conditions are far too easily removed by monks.

i guess you never seen the effects of dazed first hand. A single monk on a comp arenas team with dazed on is screwed. No way he can get off a mend ailment with triple casting times and interupted off of every hit.
however i dont think skull crack is good since by the time you try to daze a monk, you could have him a few hits from death already.

rii · Nov 04, 2005, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

That may be true but it still doesnt change the fact that Skull Crack sucks. It takes too long to build adrenaline to apply and it's too easy to remove.

Actually under ias it doesnt take forever... devastating is 7 and noone shits themselves over that. As for remove, in ca as a lone remover (who is the one dazed) then your frankly incompetent if you cant simply hit him during the 3s casting time. Just saying 'skull crack sucks' is meaningless and scrubby, in context its just average caster shafting. And either way: 'concussion shot' ja?

Red Locust · Nov 05, 2005, 01:29 AM // 01:29

I don't see why anyone would use skull crack. If you want to silence someone, use concussion shot: it's easier to hit, they can't run from you as easily, it doesn't take forever to recharge, it lasts longer, and oh yeah, it's not elite.

In my book, skull crack belongs in the dumpster, along with a handful of other elites.

Morganas · Nov 05, 2005, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

Prot monks don't run martyr, there's alot better elites that this one. Warrior/monk is normally the one who use it lol.
Anyway, he said that they would be running signet of humility, so it works.

Conditions are more harmful to warriors then monks, who can function just fine when stacked with conditions, and warriors are more reliant on elites than prot monks. I dunno, my tombs group usually just sticks it on one of our monk primaries and it works ok. Putting it on the prot monk is just for convenience sake, since they'll always be in range of their own mend ailment.

Ollj · Nov 05, 2005, 04:05 AM // 04:05

skull crack is for N/W or R/W or Me/W or E/W, its not much of a primary class skill.
Use it against whoever removes conditions, to block him from doing anything for 15 seconds if there is noone to remove his condition (or if noone prevents ANYONE from attacking him).

omgzors martyr.
hehe great, now dazed reached its destination, the condition remover, and its going to stay there for a while!!!! (of course someone has to attach him

)
skull crack > martyr

Examples:
most necros can take and deal a lot of damage and still stay alife, in some situations they can gain 9 adrenaline in way less than 15 seconds and do some fast area damage skills, mass interrupting multiple players. He just has to come near a condition remover if there is any, warriors than have to come near him.

Stay alife in the middle of a king of the hills map and mass interrupt gohstly heroes near you, they wont notice his condition to be the cause soon enough.

Vermilion Okeanos · Nov 07, 2005, 07:54 AM // 07:54

I am willing to bet anyone who wish to defend skull crack never actually use skull crack at all.

Everything of skull crack's problem can be solve... EXCEPT the excution of the skill. As the OP said, you need to be as close to a psychic to be able to use skull crack well (without AC). Unlike most interrupt, the skull crack do not come out instantly, instead it follow your attack animation (notice there is no cast time for it); it means that this skill is not an interruption/intercept skill at all, yet it has the effect of one (this skill is perhaps the most contradicting skill there is).

There are absolutely no reason to bring this elite/high andrenline cost/unreliable execution especially with the existance of concussion shot (concussion shot got a cast time).

rii · Nov 07, 2005, 05:02 PM // 17:02

The only time i use it is when i use the spell slasher premade. But I do use it.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Nov 08, 2005, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioaxes

i guess you never seen the effects of dazed first hand. A single monk on a comp arenas team with dazed on is screwed. No way he can get off a mend ailment with triple casting times and interupted off of every hit.
however i dont think skull crack is good since by the time you try to daze a monk, you could have him a few hits from death already.

And you'd be guessing wrong. It's so easy to get rid of Dazed on my protection monk. All I need to do at times is run in a circle for a bit (providing that I'm not crippled) and Mend Ailment on myself when I have breathing room. Or the other monk gets rid of it for me.

It's even easier in CA since I bring Bonetti's Stance and just use that while I Mend Ailment. Ridiculously easy to get rid of Dazed and most people aren't even lucky enough to even get it on me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

Actually under ias it doesnt take forever... devastating is 7 and noone shits themselves over that. As for remove, in ca as a lone remover (who is the one dazed) then your frankly incompetent if you cant simply hit him during the 3s casting time. Just saying 'skull crack sucks' is meaningless and scrubby, in context its just average caster shafting. And either way: 'concussion shot' ja?

Meaningless and scrubby...you just described Skull Crack. Dude, I'm not saying Skull Crack's effect is horrible....just the application.

rii · Nov 08, 2005, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Quote:

And you'd be guessing wrong. It's so easy to get rid of Dazed on my protection monk. All I need to do at times is run in a circle for a bit (providing that I'm not crippled) and Mend Ailment on myself when I have breathing room. Or the other monk gets rid of it for me.

Youve failed to take into consideration that the person who lets you run around in circles after theyve dealt out dazed is also an idiot. A basic snare such as cripple is more than enough, and as we will see throughout this post, playing against idiots is a fairly stupid thing to take into assumption.

Quote:

It's even easier in CA since I bring Bonetti's Stance and just use that while I Mend Ailment. Ridiculously easy to get rid of Dazed and most people aren't even lucky enough to even get it on me.

You bring a counter to warriors, therefore the skill they used is crap? That doesnt quite work. If you bring a dodge which they dont prepare for (since this is ca), or they allow you simply to build up that much adrenaline (instead of forcing you into casting via damage etc), that again is not a fault in any game dynamic except their lack of preperation. That dents skull crack in no way.
That is very similar to me saying that warriors using damage skills are crap since i bring physical resistance and therefore they dont do any/much damage. Dont turn this into a counter vs counter since its meaningless. This discussion ends in that a competent warrior with skull crack should beat a caster when that caster is alone. Of course there are variables, but there are variables to everything.

Quote:

Meaningless and scrubby...you just described Skull Crack. Dude, I'm not saying Skull Crack's effect is horrible....just the application.

What? The application that is horrible is the spell slasher premade. A properly decked out skull crack in ca should beat a lone caster (and in ca as monk you're often alone). If you find different, its because the guy at the other end of the fight doesnt know whats going on.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Nov 08, 2005, 07:11 PM // 19:11

But factoring the counters against Dazed is a valid argument because my point is that Skull Crack is unweildy to apply while the counters are so easy to pull off. And it's not like the counters are only specific to countering Daze only.

All other conditions are very easy and fast to apply. Poison for instance. So it doesn't matter too much that a Mend Ailment can take them off instantly since it's just a matter of poisoning the target again. But for Skull Crack, you have to build up adrenaline again and then make sure you time your interrupt correctly. And what Monk doesnt bring some form of anti warrior skills in the form of aegis or guardian or stances?

Anyway, that's cool that you think Skull Crack is so uber and that you use it. It really doesnt matter what I think about Skull Crack does it? So I'm done here.

rii · Nov 08, 2005, 09:06 PM // 21:06

I dont use it. Its not uber.

Thing is, your whole argument is based on the fact that monks can remove it. This ignores a fundamental part of skull crack ca strat which is making sure they cant get away and therefore cannot remove it. Therefore, in my eyes, there isnt anything beyond that, since your ignoring half the discussion.

Scourgey · Nov 09, 2005, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Skull crack is an awful skill, it can only really reliably (because of having attack speed based attack unlike ordinary interrupts) used on 2 second cast spells, which most monks don't use (apart from aegis, but if there's aegis around, your skull crack won't be 100% reliable). Even with attack speed boosts it's not easy to interrupt 1 second casts (I have enough trouble interrupting 1 second cast spells, I usually only get them 75% of the time).

Skull crack imo, needs to be used with warrior's cunning to ensure 100% reliability and an attack speed boost to make it easier to interrupt. I think the skill more reliable to use vs elementalists or necromancers, but if there's a monk on the team (ie every good team), it's likely to be removed very quickly.

Hell if I'm monk, I've remove daze from casters on my team (usually from concussion shot) because they can even call it usually!

Almighty Zi · Nov 09, 2005, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Well, on its own skull crack will be an awful skill. If you are planning on dazing anyone then you will have to dedicate half your skills (maybe more) on getting the job done properly.

I have recently been using concussion shot in random arena (because of the likelyhood of 1 or no oppossing monks) and because of the high cost of the skill I have to make sure that when used it counts. For this reason, I take arcane conundrum to help me land the shot.

I also take apply poison, not only to add a bit of DOT to my build but the poison covers the dazed when concussion shot lands. This is just in case the target manages to get off a mend ailment or likewise skill for some reason afterwards.

Once I daze an opponent I fire a normal shot followed by crippling shot. For an elite, crippling shot sure takes a while to fire off therefore the normal shot is there to interupt the target's next skill, which may either be a condition removal or panic skill. Its important to cripple a dazed opponent to stop them kiting and thus avoiding your interupts. The cripple also makes for another nice covering condition. On a side note, if the target uses a stance or a skill to avoid attacks (bonnettits, shields up etc), then you can continue interupting with crippling shot as it cannot be blocked or evaded.

As you can see, I take four skills to get the dazed on and to keep it on. If you look at skull crack on its own without looking at ways to reduce the limitations of the skill and it's resulting affect then it is going to seem like a bad skill. If you are going to be using skull crack then I would recommend considering skills such as arcane conundrum, hamstring, swift chop and even warriors cunning to compliment it.

I hope this has been some use to the OP.