Curse

Numa Pompilius · Sep 28, 2005, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Agreed, Physical Resistance is nice. Provided you're exclusively being pummeled by melee enemies doing physical damage. It gives great tankability against e.g. Ettin, but is a liability in PvP or against enemies which do elemental damage as it reduces your elemental resistance.
Yes, there's the Mantras, but there's four of them, one for each element, and you generally don't know which element you'll be hit with.

Mumblyfish · Sep 28, 2005, 09:48 PM // 21:48

The Resistances and Elemental Mantras are pretty much worthless. If they were enchantments, yes, I could see some point to their being, because at least then you could stack 'em. As they are, they use up your valuable stance slot, a slot that would be better used on Hex Breaker or Mantra of Inscription (if you're a Signet of Humility/Weariness slag like I am). I'm not going to comment on their use in PvE, since even a sword made out of wet noodles would do well there.

Xue Yi Liang · Sep 28, 2005, 10:40 PM // 22:40

If my PvE Me/N expects to see mobs of melee, there's nothing like Signet of Midnight, Plague Sending, Chaos Storm +/- Empathy. I keep Backfire for casters which usually gets cast up front before I get mobbed.

Ilya Khan · Sep 29, 2005, 05:50 AM // 05:50

It's truly wonderful how you don't have to have the same stance the whole game. Pack whatever mantra you think you will need most - either physical, hex breaker if you have enough meat shields, or a SPECIFIC elemental mantra (earth, lightnin, fire, etc.) The mantra's act as a way to prevent most of the damage dealt to them.

Shimus DarkRaven · Nov 14, 2005, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Get me a Mesmer build that works efficiently. I'm also looking to still second-class him, so suggestions on what you think is the best all-around secondary..any info is appreciated

Sekkira · Nov 14, 2005, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

IMO Ether Feast is pretty useless after pre-searing. If you ever find yourself in a situation where you're taking serious damage and Alesia or human healer can't heal you, Ether Feasts max 130 points of healing wont save you. During the two seconds you stand still, totally defenseless, casting, you likely take as much damage or more, and then there's an 8 second cooldown.

If you are a mesmer and it takes you a full 2 seconds to cast ether feast, you don't have anything in fast casting. If you are a mesmer and have nothing in fast casting, you are an idiot.

Align · Nov 14, 2005, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Note that elemental resistance provides more protection than any of the Mantras, though you do not gain any energy with it, unless your Insp. level is nearly maxed.

Aracos79 · Nov 14, 2005, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Wow... what is the deal with digging up the old threads today? This must be the third or fourth old thread I've seen bumped today.

On-topic: Mesmers get BIG TIME neglected in PvE, so anyone who's thinking about it, get friendly with Alesia and company.

Shimus DarkRaven · Nov 14, 2005, 06:50 PM // 18:50

the "deal" is I didn't want to post a new thread when I could just bump an old one on the same topic. I believe the mods would agree with me too.

=)

--The shim

Findariel · Nov 14, 2005, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

IMO Ether Feast is pretty useless after pre-searing. If you ever find yourself in a situation where you're taking serious damage and Alesia or human healer can't heal you, Ether Feasts max 130 points of healing wont save you. During the two seconds you stand still, totally defenseless, casting, you likely take as much damage or more, and then there's an 8 second cooldown.

Distortion: a skill which gives 75% chance of evasion for 5 seconds, each evasion costs 1-3 energy. Great stuff.

Mumblyfish at the beginning of this thread is 100% right, IMO - the self-healing & tank-ability of Mesmers are godawful. Any mesmer is wise to rely on his secondary skills for either.
Oh, and they have no speedbuff either.

Agreed with this. Eles and mesmers not only have the thinnest armour but also have lousy self heal (to say the least).

Next to that: to make ether feast functional, you have to pump up Inspiration - an attribute line without damage skills. Add points in fast casting and you still haven't got anything to hurt your enemy.

Particulary annoying is the fact that you have to stand there in the enemies range to cast it - so you must continue to take damage and can be interrupted too (Ether is a spell - easiest to interrupt).
Cast it on an enemy without energy - and you won't even get healed at all.
Want to escape while low on health and with a degen on you? You can't.

I play Me/E, and I don't even bother anymore to take healing skills.

Mesmers do have a running skill though - that leaves you crippled after using.
Wow.

Mordakai · Nov 14, 2005, 07:03 PM // 19:03

I have a Lev 20 Me/E. The key is not to be the first to attack, so you don't draw attacks.

Your role is support, so be support. Run away if you start getting attacked.

Early missions, you will not be needed as much as the later ones, where your interrupts will be needed.

I take Ether Feast, Energy Tap, Backfire, Empathy, Power Spike, Leech Signet, Guilt, with the 8th spot being either a Res. Sig or Capture Sig.

I'm thinking of replacing Guilt with Energy Burn for some more damage dealing.

I think each class should take some self-heal spell, just to help your Monk out.

Since I don't get attacked often, Ether Feast works fine for me.

dfscott · Nov 14, 2005, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Findariel

Mesmers do have a running skill though - that leaves you crippled after using.
Wow.

I agree -- Illusion of Haste is awful. I once read a post about how great it was because even with 0 points, it lasted 5 seconds and recharges everyone 5 seconds, so you can have it on constantly!

They forgot about the fact that it's a spell, so you actually have to cast the thing -- taking anywhere from 1/2-1 second, which is an eternity when you're being chased.

I'd rather have the monk running skill: RoF

Divineshadows · Nov 15, 2005, 01:05 AM // 01:05

For PvE, a Me/Mo can actually serve as a better healer to others than monk primaries. My first character was a monk and the mesmer came later, so I think it helps to have familiarity with monk skills before doing so. There are certain healing skills -- heal other, heal party, healing breeze, healing seed, vigirous spirit, mending, and restore life -- which rely more on the value of your healing prayers attribute to function well than they do on any divine favor bonuses. Granted as a non-monk you cannot get healing prayers above 12 via traditional means, but the listed skills function quite well at 12.

In addition, being able to use fast casting to deliver the heals closer to the time when someone takes damage buys your non-warrior teammates the time they need to find a safer spot on the battlefield where they are not taking massive damage. With competant teammates, it is the the speed of delivery of the healing and not the magnitude of the heal that will save their life. Of course, if you are in a group where someone is standing there taking damage til the cows come home they are very likely to die no matter who is doing the healing.

Lastly, the inspiration line offers skills such as mantra of recall, energy drain, power drain, and inspired hex to fuel an increased casting rate of healing spells. With an energy pool that is more easily replenished, the more expensive healing spells such as heal party and heal other become much more viable in a build. As a monk primary I found these skills too expensive for their effect and would opt instead for skills more like orison and dwayna's kiss. As for a secondary monk doing healing a Me/Mo beats and E/Mo hands down, because fast casting paired with inspiration will allow for the healing to continue for a much longer duration than energy storage allows. In addition, mesmer armor offers energy bonuses whereas Elementalist armor does not.

For sections of the game where party size is allowed to be 8, this type of inspired, fast-casting healer build does very well when backed by a protection monk. This combination works great for even Thunderhead Keep where spells like heal party and aegis are highly effective. Ether feast is an important skill in any such build though as it and healing breeze are the primary self-heals.

When playing a mesmer as a pure mesmer, I think it is important to know the value of interrupts. Interrupting the enemies highly damaging spells such as maelstrom or chain lightning should be considered as healing through prevention rather than healing by reaction. Cry of frustration used properly against a pack of ice imps can reduce the enemies damage output to the point where it can allow your healers to keep you and the rest of the party alive. While domination mesmers can help protect the whole party against casting enemies in PvE, illusion mesmers can perform the same function against warriors and rangers.

When choosing a secondary for your mesmer, I highly recommend monk if you enjoy playing in PUGs as it can highly increase your odds of getting into a PUG. If you prefer to mainly play with henchman, then I recommend going with whichever secondary you need to unlock skills for. From the Kryta onward every PUG is in constant search for monks and if you know how to properly run a healing build on your mesmer you can serve that role with ease. On occasion you'll even end up in a PUG that already has enough monks and appreciates your value as a true mesmer.

Tainted Poon · Nov 15, 2005, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Someone tell me wth durham does, i NEVER use/used the mesmer hench

Findariel · Nov 15, 2005, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I have a Lev 20 Me/E. The key is not to be the first to attack, so you don't draw attacks.
Your role is support, so be support. Run away if you start getting attacked.

Sure, with the new update they all run at YOU when an AoE hits ..

Running around is not very useful, happily they quickly lock on someone else if you run off (someone with decent healing skill hopefully

)

Then again, when the warriors engage the enemy warriors, being a dom. mesmer you are likely to target the casters behind those enemy warriors. You're not a fire nuker, you interrupt and shutdown other casters, preferably monks.
That puts you frightingly close to the melee, with your thin armour and terrible self heal.

Venus · Nov 15, 2005, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

distortion is very strong if used right. is use it with price of failure to gain 4 energy each time they miss me. warriors and rangers can't touch me.

Very true

Man With No Name · Nov 15, 2005, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venus

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

distortion is very strong if used right. is use it with price of failure to gain 4 energy each time they miss me. warriors and rangers can't touch me.

Very true

It definately would be -- if you were both using "Spirit of Failure"

As for the Mesmers ability to heal -- it's severly impaired since they:
- Don't get Divine Favour
- Can't go above 12 ranks in either Healing or Protection

I can't think of why you'd go Mes/Mo rather than Mo/Mes -- you both have the same base armour, your primary classes are both priority targets and fast casting doesn't really get to shine as brightly as it can, when used with 1 second 'ish spells....

Findariel · Nov 15, 2005, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man With No Name

It definately would be -- if you were both using "Spirit of Failure"

As for the Mesmers ability to heal -- it's severly impaired since they:
- Don't get Divine Favour
- Can't go above 12 ranks in either Healing or Protection

I can't think of why you'd go Mes/Mo rather than Mo/Mes -- you both have the same base armour and fast casting doesn't really get to shine when used with 1 second 'ish spells....

I never go Me/Mo. I have a Mo/Me though ..

In PvE I don't use self-heal anymore, I have given up sacrificing so much attribute points for lousy Ether Feast.

In PvP I go Me/N - curses or blood: suddenly I have no trouble with self heal at all.

And well .. about Spirit of Failure and Distortion: Distortion cost so much each 5 secs, and any savage slash cuts right through it and if a smart warrior just waits for PoF to wear out or a monk removes SoF, you're seriously in trouble because keeping up Dirstortion drains all your energy.
Really too much "can not be evaded" or "ends stance" skills imho,
I'd prefer Crippling Anguish at all times. Hardly ever enter CA without it (unless I use a Me/E earth build, very funny).

B.t.w. my warrior uses Smite Hex (vs necro/mesmer) and Savage Slash (against all stances, esp. rangers) in CA ...

Divineshadows · Nov 15, 2005, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainted Poon

Someone tell me wth durham does, i NEVER use/used the mesmer hench

A neat use for Durham is in the desert vs any casting enemies when you are playing an interrupt ranger. Land a concussion shot on one caster (i.e. hydra, sand drake, windcaster, etc.) and this dazed condition seems to active the interrupt code for Durham. I've seen him interrupt 3 straight spells on an enemy that is dazed. This allows you as an interrupt ranger to use your other interrupts on different enemies knowing that the dazed one will be locked down by Durham. If you are not an interrupt ranger, then I do not know what value Durham can provide. However, with the update that shows you every skill an enemy or hench is using it should not be very difficult to figure him out if you bring him along a couple times and watch what he does.

I agree with Man With No Name and Findariel in that I would prefer Mo/Me over Me/Mo for PvP. Fast-casting does shine when used with heal party (2 seconds), healing seed (2 seconds), and restore life (8 seconds). While it is not as useful for 1 second spells, there is still an improvement. For PvE, I find fast-casting to be of more use to a healer than divine favor. And that is saying a lot cause my monk has divine favor at 16 for the vast majority of the protection builds I use. The reason I posted the information about how a Me/Mo can be an effective healer for PvE is because Shimus Darkraven was asking for help on choosing a secondary. Memsers are often neglected for PUGs for much of PvE. However, if you can fill more than one role in a PUG you will have an easier time getting into one. Besides, you can always change your secondary and buy a few key skills if you plan on taking your PvE mesmer into PvP.

Epinephrine · Nov 15, 2005, 06:39 PM // 18:39

The point about Mantras being weak because they only affect one type of damage: not a big del, in PvE you know what damage you'll be facing for the most part. Besides, bring Winter along and pack Mantra of Frost and you get all the elemental stuff reduced, not bad. Greater Conflagration makes Elemental Resistance a +40 AL boost to everything essentially. Mesmers need to work with other classes though to really get efficient.