Curse

Morganas · Nov 13, 2005, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Focus switching only works once for gaining energy, not much of a counter to energy denial unless it's a wither/malaise nec, whereas with mantra of recall you can be of some use to your team throughout the match.

Yamat · Nov 13, 2005, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

Offering of Blood is, well, it's just better than Mantra of Recall. Energy on demand, every 15 seconds. Mantra only works well when you keep casting it every 20 seconds - if that cycle gets broken, it can take a while before you can afford to invest the 10e again.

You should only be taking Mantra of Recall, IMO, if you're also using other mesmer skills, or if you want more Contemplation-of-Purity-fodder. Which are perfectly good reasons. But in a straight 1-on-1 comparison, Offering of Blood wins hands down.

One big advantage with MoR is that when it gets stripped, you still get the energy (and taking it is almost a given if you are taking other Mes skills).

Your point about "keep casting it every 20 secs" is not entirely on the mark. Yes, when I use it I keep casting it every 20 secs, but not because I need to, because I can!! It's like setting off another morphine dose on the IV drip!! I often end a fight only 5 energy down!

Zeru · Nov 13, 2005, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morganas

Focus switching only works once for gaining energy, not much of a counter to energy denial unless it's a wither/malaise nec, whereas with mantra of recall you can be of some use to your team throughout the match.

No and no. Take a gander and learn:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...focus+swapping

The bottom line about MoR vs OoB. Use offering if you have 1 skill slot since functionally one to one comparison there is absolutely no contest, offering is hands down better. MoR becomes useful if you can afford another 2-3 skill slots for drain enchant/inspired hex/channeling/power drain but only in that case.

Yamat · Nov 13, 2005, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

No and no. Take a gander and learn:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...focus+swapping

The bottom line about MoR vs OoB. Use offering if you have 1 skill slot since functionally one to one comparison there is absolutely no contest, offering is hands down better. MoR becomes useful if you can afford another 2-3 skill slots for drain enchant/inspired hex/channeling/power drain but only in that case.

Great post. Thanks for sharing.

Warskull · Nov 13, 2005, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Honestly it wounds like you are trying to half play a boon prot monk and half play a maintained enchantment monk. If you go the route of the maintained enchant monk you would probably be best off dropping divine boon.

However to note, in arenas a single life bonder is an absolutely massive target and you will probably not get to take advantage of the lifebonds. If you are a monk you will get targeted heavily in arenas. With the maintained enchantment route you can use mantra of inscriptions to allow you to cast blessed signet more often and thus become an energy gain tool. Additionally with the inspiration line you can take drain enchant, inspired hex, and energy tap (all good energy gain skills.)

If you go boon prot without all the other maintained enchantments you can't really ask for a better energy management skill than offering of blood. It fits a boon prot quite well.

Yamat · Nov 13, 2005, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warskull

Honestly it wounds like you are trying to half play a boon prot monk and half play a maintained enchantment monk. If you go the route of the maintained enchant monk you would probably be best off dropping divine boon.

However to note, in arenas a single life bonder is an absolutely massive target and you will probably not get to take advantage of the lifebonds. If you are a monk you will get targeted heavily in arenas. With the maintained enchantment route you can use mantra of inscriptions to allow you to cast blessed signet more often and thus become an energy gain tool. Additionally with the inspiration line you can take drain enchant, inspired hex, and energy tap (all good energy gain skills.)

If you go boon prot without all the other maintained enchantments you can't really ask for a better energy management skill than offering of blood. It fits a boon prot quite well.

I think I disagree with your last statement because of what you say before it... in arenas the monks are huge targets and, IMHO, you cant afford to be sacrificing health.

GWplayer745 · Nov 13, 2005, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Hey guys, thanks for all the replies.

I've tried the Life Bond + Balthazar's Spirit option, but I see three problems with it, two which have already been mentioned. First, it's useless against an all-caster team, and secondly if I do die, I get rezzed with only 25% energy, and I'm pretty much useless.

However, the third problem I have encountered, is that even if I use life bond and I encounter an all-warrior or all-ranger team or something of the sort, the chance that I will actually get damage is very slim. With protection prayers at 16, the damage I get is reduced by 32. So my allies would have to be taking more than 64 damage if I wanted to be able to use this as an energy engine. In CA, experience has told me that not many people can deal 64+ damage consistently. So I see too many -0 above my ahead, and I'm not getting the energy for it.

Edit: someone mentioned that I should probably drop Divine Boon. I'm wondering if someone could enlighten me as to how I would manage to keep my allies (and myself) alive with only the health bonus I get from Divine Favor and the skills I would have in my skillbar?

Edit: Sorry, dumb question. I got it figured out.

Morganas · Nov 13, 2005, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

No and no. Take a gander and learn:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...focus+swapping

The bottom line about MoR vs OoB. Use offering if you have 1 skill slot since functionally one to one comparison there is absolutely no contest, offering is hands down better. MoR becomes useful if you can afford another 2-3 skill slots for drain enchant/inspired hex/channeling/power drain but only in that case.

Ok that makes sense now. Mantra of Recall's not going on my bar again, I never have 3 free slots for energy management, nor do I need them.

mortalis doleo · Nov 13, 2005, 08:56 PM // 20:56

you should have been looking at your mana bar...
those -0 are giving you energy, and are considered "damage". if you actually meet a full ranger/warrior team, you will find that you can stop spamming blessed after a while, since your energy is stuck at max (at least that's how it is in tombs).
if those -0 were not giving energy, then the entire idea would have been wrong, since 90% of attacks deal less than that damage...

twicky_kid · Nov 13, 2005, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by GWplayer745

Hey guys, thanks for all the replies.

I've tried the Life Bond + Balthazar's Spirit option, but I see three problems with it, two which have already been mentioned. First, it's useless against an all-caster team, and secondly if I do die, I get rezzed with only 25% energy, and I'm pretty much useless.

However, the third problem I have encountered, is that even if I use life bond and I encounter an all-warrior or all-ranger team or something of the sort, the chance that I will actually get damage is very slim. With protection prayers at 16, the damage I get is reduced by 32. So my allies would have to be taking more than 64 damage if I wanted to be able to use this as an energy engine. In CA, experience has told me that not many people can deal 64+ damage consistently. So I see too many -0 above my ahead, and I'm not getting the energy for it.

Edit: someone mentioned that I should probably drop Divine Boon. I'm wondering if someone could enlighten me as to how I would manage to keep my allies (and myself) alive with only the health bonus I get from Divine Favor and the skills I would have in my skillbar?

Edit: Sorry, dumb question. I got it figured out.

0 dmg is still dmg. it will still trigger balth spirit to give 1 energy. if you are in CA and teams most teams will have 1-2 wars a monk and 1-2 casters. an attack is defined as dmg from your weapon. wand, bow, and all war weapons are attacks. even if you are against casters they will not be always casting. not much dmg to reduce there but it doesn't matter gives you 1 no matter who they hit. in CA and teams you will be the one hit alot and occasionally the team. the build protects yourself and party while having great healing.

you don't need 16 protection to make life bond work well. you only need it at about 17-19 dmg reduction since it only works on attacks. you might get hit for 10-15 dmg when they use something like galrath or final strike.

best energy managment i can think of is 10 e gain per second on avg with 12 e gain every 12 seconds which is = to 3 pips of regen . using blessed sig with 4 maintained is only dropping your energy 1/3 from the 4 pips of regen.

now take the attack rate of warrios and rangers. under IAS wars is 1attack/sec. so that's 1 energy gain no matter who on the party they hit and cuts their dmg in half. rangers don't really go by with the attack rate with skills like quick shot. still give .5-1 energy per second when they attack constantly.

so i got 3 pips from blessed sig with 4 maintained. 3 pips from 1 IAS wars. 2-3 pips from rangers under quick shot and IAS. 3 pips = 1 energy per second. with this build most of the time you will have on avg 5-6 pips of energy effectively with no energy investment after its been set up.

i think i'd take that than any other energy option for CA and teams. energy gain while i protect my party.

qwe4rty · Nov 14, 2005, 05:05 AM // 05:05

What your trying to do sounds a lot like my build, so I'll give it to you. This build has all the energy management needed. Lasted 9 minutes, in heavy lag, spamming spells, with more than enough energy, before I disconnected.

Blood Magic: 10
Prot: 8 + 1 *(it might be 9+1 or something else + 1. just put 10 in blood and 11 in divine, and the rest in prot)
Divine Favor: 11 + 1 + 3

-Guardian
-Reversal of Fortune
-Mend Ailment
-Prot Spirit/Contemplation of Purity (depending on what is happening more in the arenas at time, I pick between these two)
-Remove Hex
-Offering of Blood
-Balthazar's Spirit (Better than essence usually because it converts ANY dmg to 1 energy, not just physical)
-Divine Boon

Use the first 3 spells basically for all of your heals.
Use # 4 if there are maxes hexes/conditions (If you cast RoF and Guardian on yourself, those are both enchants that can fuel CoP)
Use # 4 if there is a heavy spike
Use Remove Hex if you have time in battle and won't get overwhelmed
Use OoB every time it is recharged, and you have 16 less than ur max energy

My items:
Slot 1 - 20% Recharge Wand // 12 Energy 45 HP (enchanted) Armor (enchanted) Focus
Slot 2 - 15 energy - 1 regen Wand //12 Energy 45 HP (enchanted) Armor (enchanted) Focus
Slot 3 - 15 energy - 1 regen Wand // 12 + 15 Energy, 30 HP - 1 regen Focus

If you fall behind, focus switch really fast, till you can use OoB to get above maximum. You may have to drop Balths Spirit if your not being targetted

Enjoy

~Note- 4v4 Use only, not as efficient in 8v8~

GWplayer745 · Nov 14, 2005, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

in CA and teams you will be the one hit alot and occasionally the team. the build protects yourself and party while having great healing.

Sorry, but this may be a personal problem, because Although Life Bond reduces the damage in half, it fails miserably against casters. I can only spam that +48 Divine Favor health bonus spell so many times...-106 from lightning surge, -126 from lightning orb, gee I guess I only need to spam some cheap spammable spell (like Reversal of Fortune) about 6 times just to recover the health i lost...+48 + 48 +48 +48 +48.........

Sorry, but I have tried without Divine Boon and find myself lacking in the healing department. Yeah, I'm a prot monk right? True, but, and I say again, this is a personal problem :P, but I can't see the justification behind your statement of "...while having great healing"

Spam away...

taxed · Nov 14, 2005, 05:44 PM // 17:44

OK, my thoughts on this subject:

CA faction farming works extremely well with life bond protection. The build that I use is as follows:

Protection: 15
Divine Favor 14

Shield of Regeneration (e)
Blessed Signet
RoF
mend ailment
life bond
divine boon
balth's spirit
Res signet OR some kind of hex removal

Strengths:
RoF heals for close to 120 per cast (and on top of that negates the next damage and heals for up to 80 more)

Mend Ailment also heals for close to 120 per cast AND 70 more for each remaining condition (how many times to you have deep wound and bleeding, nice 190 heal for 5 energy)

Massive energy engine - Blessed signet gives 15 energy every 12-15 seconds, balth's spirit with life bonds also helps...you WON'T run out of energy unless you are severly drained by a mesmer. Life bond transfers all damage to you, including elemental damage. All those 0's over your head represent 1 free energy, and there are tons of those.

Great Condition removals - Huge healing on these. It's fun running into the lava at the crag and watching a warrior slowly die while barely getting scratched.

Enchantment Stripping is very rare in CA, you can run while reducing damage if you have to

If you are getting ganked by warriors, which always happens, with Shield of Regeneration running you can completely ignore them. You can easily keep yourself fully healed even with 4 warriors on you all the time. (spamming mend ailment and RoF during recharge of Shield...it's very effective).

Weakess - if you bring res, there is no hex removal, if you bring hex removal there is no rez

Interruptions - when blessed signet gets interrupted you might have energy problems. It's often best to fake a cast of a life bond to attract the interrupt, then you can happily hit the signet.

Massive hex degen - no free energy, shield of regeneration is too slow to counter these. It's tough to keep spamming RoF with the energy management we have now. Not to worry though, conditions are no problem, as mend ailment can be a truely massive heal.

Entropius · Nov 14, 2005, 06:54 PM // 18:54

You're going to get savage shotted into oblivion. Savage shot is currently grotesquely, massively overpowered in arenas, and the rangers know it and spam it. (It's not so bad with aegis-chaining in tombs.)

I find you almost have to run mantra of resolve to play a caster in arenas.

taxed · Nov 14, 2005, 06:59 PM // 18:59

In the Team Arena's yes. That build is for quick faction farming in CA and will normally get owned in TA.
At least the casting time of RoF and mend ailment are nice and quick, and savage shot rangers can still be beaten with it (as long as your team is organized, and goes after the rangers first). I have run 27 consecutive victories with that build from Randoms, so 17 in teams from a random group is not so bad....

dfscott · Nov 14, 2005, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

No and no. Take a gander and learn:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...focus+swapping

The bottom line about MoR vs OoB. Use offering if you have 1 skill slot since functionally one to one comparison there is absolutely no contest, offering is hands down better. MoR becomes useful if you can afford another 2-3 skill slots for drain enchant/inspired hex/channeling/power drain but only in that case.

Not to take this too far off-topic, but thanks for that link -- it was very eye-opening.

When I play my monk, I have a bad habit of losing track and getting so low that I can't even cast OOB. Because of this, I found MoR worked better for me since I just made sure it was up all the time.

However, using the switching trick, I now come in with just my holy rod equipped. When I get the "click" that says I've hit zero (or too low), switch in the focus, OOB, and keep healing. If I get it again, switch in the +5 energy wand for the holy wand, OOB, keep going again (now, being a bit more conservative since I'm out of safety nets).

So, I basically have two "low energy alarms" - low and really low -- until I hit them, I can cast almost indiscriminately without having to constantly monitor my energy.

mortalis doleo · Nov 14, 2005, 08:47 PM // 20:47

another build option for prot monk in CA:
1. life bond
2. life barrier <e>
3. balth spirit
4. blessed sig
5. divine boon
6. reversal of fortune
7. guardien
8. mend ailement

if you dont like divine boon, dont use it...
as for the 128 dmg comment from air spiking:
divine boon is 48, and divine favor is another aprox 40. in addition, RoF will take the next spike, and transfer it to health...
really for a prot (life bonders have high divine favor), divine boon is very important, since you are healing for a lot of health, and it is spammable...

with life bond and barrier, that orb will do half damage, and a single RoF will heal the target completely (that's over-healing... but im just giving an example).

GWplayer745 · Nov 14, 2005, 08:51 PM // 20:51

taxed, although your build looks pretty good, I find that it's lacking in the energy management department. If your allies are taking mediocre-massive damage, I doubt that even with the health bonus from Divine Favor and Divine Boon, I doubt that you will be able to keep spamming spells, trying to keep them alive.

Edit: Just saw your reply Mortalis right after I posted :P so i'll just edit this one...

I like Divine Boon, I like it a lot. But someone suggested that I drop Divine Boon. I guess the two positives that I saw from this were 1)that;'s one less arrow of energy degen i'll have to worry about, and 2)I don't lose 2 energy every time I cast a spell (and trust me, when you're spamming spells like crazy, those -2's can really add up fast.)

And btw, Divine Boon, at 12 Divine Favor, heals for an additional 64 points, not 48. But I'm sure that was just a careless mistake :P

One last edit: As to combining Life Barrier and Life Bond, all the energy degeneration I would have wouldn't make the energy gain I would get from Balthazar's Spirit very noticeable. In fact, I've even tried using Balthazar's Spirit + Life Bond at just 2 pips of energy degen, and even then the energy gain I get from Balthazar's Spirit isn't very noticeable or helpful. In addition, I don't exactly like the fact that Life Barrier {E} ends if my life drops below 50%. I wouldn't exactly count on me being above 50% health for very long in a match...

GWGuru · Nov 14, 2005, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortalis doleo

by far, the best E management a prot can have, is life bonding...

you say you have 2/3 slots for management...
1. life bond
2. balthasar's spirit
3. blessed sig

you get the three team-mates with life bond and yourself with balth...
you now have no E regen, but you gain 1 energy everytime someone gets hit phisically.
you can also use blessed sig at any point, for a nice 12 energy (offering of blood's got nothing on this).
if you use divine boon too, you will have 1 degen, but you wont notice it...

you can use the remaining four slots for condition removal, res (if u want) and prot spells.

this is how i like to prot anyway...

edit:
if u use boon, u get 15 energy from blessed sig...

A Life Bonder build I mess around with in CA and TA:

Mo/Me
Life Bond
Essence Bond
Divine Boon
Mantra of Inscriptions
Blessed Signet
Reversal of Fortune
Mend Ailment
Mend Condition

Put life bond on your three teamates. Put essence bond on yourself and your 3 teammates. You know have 8 enchantments out with Divine Boon up giving you -4 Energy Regen. However like you said you're getting energy everytime one of your teammates takes physical damage(which is far more present in TA/CA than it is Tombs). Get your Divine Favor high enough to give you atleast 21 energy per cast. Use Mantra of Inscriptions at a level 9 attribute to knock the recharge time on your Signets down by 42% and you're good to go. You should have plenty of energy once you get the hang of it and you can use RoF and Mend Ailment + Mend Condition to boon heal. I'm almost certain it's a pretty common Life Bond/Boon Heal build that a number of people are using/have used but I don't frequent many forums so I'm not completely familiar with what people are running.

Like someone mentioned earlier Offering of Blood is a good way to go if you don't want to run a Life Bonder build...as Blessed Signet is going to do very little(and has a 10 second recharge) if you aren't holding 6+ enchants.

mortalis doleo · Nov 14, 2005, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by GWplayer745

taxed, although your build looks pretty good, I find that it's lacking in the energy management department. If your allies are taking mediocre-massive damage, I doubt that even with the health bonus from Divine Favor and Divine Boon, I doubt that you will be able to keep spamming spells, trying to keep them alive.

Edit: Just saw your reply Mortalis right after I posted :P so i'll just edit this one...

I like Divine Boon, I like it a lot. But someone suggested that I drop Divine Boon. I guess the two positives that I saw from this were 1)that;'s one less arrow of energy degen i'll have to worry about, and 2)I don't lose 2 energy every time I cast a spell (and trust me, when you're spamming spells like crazy, those -2's can really add up fast.)

And btw, Divine Boon, at 12 Divine Favor, heals for an additional 64 points, not 48. But I'm sure that was just a careless mistake :P

One last edit: As to combining Life Barrier and Life Bond, all the energy degeneration I would have wouldn't make the energy gain I would get from Balthazar's Spirit very noticeable. In fact, I've even tried using Balthazar's Spirit + Life Bond at just 2 pips of energy degen, and even then the energy gain I get from Balthazar's Spirit isn't very noticeable or helpful. In addition, I don't exactly like the fact that Life Barrier {E} ends if my life drops below 50%. I wouldn't exactly count on me being above 50% health for very long in a match...

eh... that build is just another way of playing around with life bonds.
as for the high energy degen, you will gain a lot from blessed signet, and adding mantra of inscriptions is also a good move (less prot, more E management).
you cant expect the life bonds ad the balth to be enough to keep your energy up. the idea is that you are maintaining sooo many enchantements, that blessed sig will give you over 20 energy, and those 4 degen wont be noticable when you are using the blessed sig.

in tombs you can easilly keep up with 14 enchantements with this build...

as for the 50% health thing... i know...

you can take prot spirit for yourself if you want, or you can make sure you aren't damaged too much...
in addition, if an enemy team is attacking you, and only you, then you wont lose your life barriers, since the person with the enchant needs to be attacked while you are under 50%.
in addition... if you lose the barriers, you still have you bonds, which are quite good by themselves.