Curse

Esuna · Nov 02, 2005, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Has anyone noticed how hugely and massively important a true tank is? I've only recently done any farming at all with a guildie in SF for the FA farming, and the rest of the team we formed was horrible most of the time, if we had a crappy tank.

I think most people don't know what a good tank is, or should do. A good tank doesn't just rush in with a bunch o enchants on him and say I hulk I smash things. He has to wait for the mob to bunch up, run in, and lure the melee ones to the ranged monsters, whether they be rangers/casters. That's partially what an experienced tank should do, IMO.

For a few times that we've formed a team, I've always nagged about that issue, and for all those times, it was a huge letdown. Us monks and eles got hit from 7 different directions because the mob wasn't on the tank, even if we were 1 radar screen away before engaging.

I'm not trying to be an elitist because honestly, I only play casters - never a warrior or a ranger, so I can't claim to give "expert" advice on the matter. But I do have a screenie here, that can show what a successful aggro should look like:

Now that was a good group I've been in. We did 3 consecutive runs, quite smoothly. No one died, and I almost never got hit, ever.

Well in closing, hopefully the tanks out there can gleam some knowledge from this screenie, if not from what I say. Perhaps we could also get some tips on how to actually tank from true experienced warriors/rangers, heh.

Hanuman li Tosh · Nov 02, 2005, 06:46 AM // 06:46

i dunno, its a good thing to be able to do but not a necessity.
you can beat the game start to finish without teaming with a warrior, gvg w/o one, and tombs w/o one.

agreed that a good tank is hard to find and a valuable asset. i would way rather have an intelligent warrior than a leroy on my team anyday.

Savio · Nov 02, 2005, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Moved because I feel it's more in the line of strategy. Also, it helps if your screenshot is only 640 pixels wide, because it messes with the page layout.

Farming in SF is easy due to the abundance of gears and kegs. The problem I've seen with PUGs is that the tanks aren't far enough ahead, while the casters aren't back enough. Well, that's why I almost always go with friends now.

Racthoh · Nov 02, 2005, 07:10 AM // 07:10

I disagree that a tank should lure the melee enemies to the ranged ones. You're running, and thus taking criticals from not only the melee guys following you but the range guys as well. Not to mention if there are an eles tossing around spells. Your monks will have to rush in early (in some cases) to heal the warrior before he/she dies and completely throw everything out of whack or risk taking some of the aggro. Take mobs one step at a time, as the melee ones have the highest armour and thus will take the longest time to kill. You can't risk losing the aggro on them when you'll need stronger AoE spells to do the job fast.

A good tank should be self-sufficient, and any enchantments cast on him/her should only aid in their tanking abilities. They also need to realize that gears and books aren't going to be everywhere (and I certainly hope that is the case in that SS). In addition, your fellow teammates need to understand the concept so you can tank.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Nov 02, 2005, 07:30 AM // 07:30

I would like to say thank you on behalf of all W/Mo's W/N's and so forht. Except W/Mes as I haven't seen one in a long time. But thanks a lot.

Battle Torn · Nov 02, 2005, 08:53 AM // 08:53

I agree total with Esuna. Im a tank and think this tactic is best but it does require all other players to stay an unusually long distance from me in order not to draw agro especially if Im luring a group at the same time. Basically as long as the enemy is outside your aggro circle when the tank starts taking the agro things should be ok. A gear or something else is perfect for this type of playing especially for a W/Mo with stances and mark or something similar. Lastly people do not seem to realize that most of the time this agro tank tactic requires them to follow instructions for example if you dont stay back (and why oh why dont you just stay back?) then you will draw agro and then were left with 2 choices of either trying to keep the group we have aggro in 1 spot for the nuker or chase down the stragglers thats chasing the monk before he gets killed and shouts "where the hell is the warrior, you need to keep em away from me"...tut tut people need to realize its their tactics sometimes that need to change and not just someone else. Ask yourself this next time your unhappy with the agro your getting.... am I too close when the fighting begins?...YES NOW STAY BACK AND STAY ALIVE AND STOP BLAMING OTHER PEOPLE!

Mahanaxar · Nov 02, 2005, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Some casters are retard and cannot get a really stupid point.

Spells range is just long enough to keep the enemies OUT of your freaking aggro bubble.

You dont need to have any enemy in your aggro bubble.

They stay focused on the tank and IGNORE you, no matter the hell you are casting on them.

Seems so hard to understand sometimes...

Arathorn5000 · Nov 02, 2005, 10:08 AM // 10:08

What are the gears people keep referring to?

Battle Torn · Nov 02, 2005, 10:23 AM // 10:23

a gear is something you pick up in sorrows to open doors with, but really the agro trick works with anything you pick up.

striderkaaru · Nov 02, 2005, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

I disagree that a tank should lure the melee enemies to the ranged ones. You're running, and thus tanking criticals from not only the melee guys following you but the range guys as well. Not to mention if there are an eles tossing around spells. Your monks will have to rush in early (in some cases) to heal the warrior before he/she dies and completely throw everything out of whack or risk taking some of the aggro. Take mobs one step at a time, as the melee ones have the highest armour and thus will take the longest time to kill. You can't risk losing the aggro on them when you'll need stronger AoE spells to do the job fast.

A good tank should be self-sufficient, and any enchantments cast on him/her should only aid in their tanking abilities. They also need to realize that gears and books aren't going to be everywhere (and I certainly hope that is the case in that SS). In addition, your fellow teammates need to understand the concept so you can tank.

agreed.

way too many people rely on the gear/keg/book/whatever "trick." being a good tank is more than just knowing how to pick up an item, stack defensive skills, and run around drawing aggro.

it's risky for the tank to draw the aggro of the melee and run to the ranged. the melee will most likely be behind him if that does happen. if they decide to switch targets, then there's little he can do to protect the casters. the more important skill is recognizing the movements of the enemy mobs and bodyblocking any melee that try to make it to the squishies.

sirelricthemad · Nov 03, 2005, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillaume De Sonoma

W/Mes as I haven't seen one in a long time.

I play W/Me!

Well I used to. Illusionary Weaponry + Flurry = Fun. :P

heist23 · Nov 03, 2005, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Farming in SF is easy due to the abundance of gears and kegs. The problem I've seen with PUGs is that the tanks aren't far enough ahead, while the casters aren't back enough. Well, that's why I almost always go with friends now.

that's a trend that i nearly always see. one that i sometimes participate in...

can i join you on some runs? please?

Adambomb · Nov 03, 2005, 09:36 AM // 09:36

I have a R/W primary and started to let a little bored with it and I've recently been watching W's a lot so last night I started a W/Mo. Its awesome! I'm at Borlis' Pass now and W/Mo is much fun. I never knew that charging into a mob swinging a sword could be so uber!

Anyway, I haven't yet read any guides on warriors but have been playing through what I've seen other warriors do from my ranger days. I've basically been sprinting around, drawing aggro from one or two, sometimes three mobs and allowing them all to pile on me whilst the rest of the team attack from range. Sometimes I get overwhelmed but Healing Breeze and Endure Pain usually see me through.

I want to become a decent tank so when I get to the high-level places I won't let the team down.. am I going about the whole tanking thing right?

-Adam

Zazoo · Nov 03, 2005, 10:36 AM // 10:36

I play 3 Melee characters and for some reason I cannot get the tanking with my W/Mo right, dunno if its timing or what.
I can Farm Griffs etc, but as soon as I get into a PUG I die repeatedly.
Now my E/Wo and R/W I tank very well.
Go figure.

SaintGreg · Nov 03, 2005, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Its not exactly difficult to be a tank, all you have to do is get them into a ball and just sit in the middle of it, maybe using dolyak's and stances to stay alive a little better.

Ollj · Nov 03, 2005, 02:37 PM // 14:37

after you enjoyed the ranger that tanks 20-30 smites in the unterworld you can either laught or cry at all other palanoobs.

Yukito Kunisaki · Nov 03, 2005, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adambomb

I have a R/W primary and started to let a little bored with it and I've recently been watching W's a lot so last night I started a W/Mo. Its awesome! I'm at Borlis' Pass now and W/Mo is much fun. I never knew that charging into a mob swinging a sword could be so uber!

Anyway, I haven't yet read any guides on warriors but have been playing through what I've seen other warriors do from my ranger days. I've basically been sprinting around, drawing aggro from one or two, sometimes three mobs and allowing them all to pile on me whilst the rest of the team attack from range. Sometimes I get overwhelmed but Healing Breeze and Endure Pain usually see me through.

I want to become a decent tank so when I get to the high-level places I won't let the team down.. am I going about the whole tanking thing right?

-Adam

With a competent monk, Warriors shouldn't have a problem tanking. What makes a true tank for me is the one who breaks the mold:

"Tanks are for taking hits so casters can do the 'real' damage."

The way I formulate any tank build involves a W/X with the power to nuke just as good as or if not, better than any caster.

With 8 skills and no pvp requirements such as frenzy/sprint, creating a walking nuke tank isn't as hard as some would expect it to be.

I hate this mentality that elementalists seem to have that warriors can't kill anything in pve...

Under Flurry, a Mark of Pained victim in the middle of a gigantic mob [which the warrior smartly aggroed] will suffer 30dps armor ignoring damage for 30s. If you do it right, and the enemy just won't go down, you're dealing 900 damage before Mark of Pain runs out [if you spam flurry]

Sure the Mark of Pain victim might walk away but I noticed enemies do that in the middle of AoE casted spells now too... [gah]

Formulate a tank that can nuke as well as take hits and I'm certain your team will like you that much more...

Adambomb · Nov 03, 2005, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Thanks yukito, I'll bear your advice in mind

At the moment I don't have that many skills but I'm sure with the amount of Gw I play every day and such I'll get to the stage my ranger is before the end of the month.

Thanks again,

-Adam

striderkaaru · Nov 03, 2005, 06:08 PM // 18:08

@adam
as already mentioned, a good tank does more than just round up the baddies and sit taking damage. that's only the first step.

the key is to always be mindful. as a warrior, you're almost always at the front of a group. make sure you ask the casters how their energy situation is before engaging another mob.

it's also a good idea to always keep an eye on the battlefield. scan targets to see which ones need to be killed first or which are almost dead. also watch out for additional patrols and mobs that might engage from behind by watching your minimap. just be a alert. warriors are often looked to as the battlefield captains.

finally, a good tank knows how to manage a situation gone wrong. what will you do if, after drawing the aggro of multiple mobs, 2 melee enemies decide to break aggro and run to your monk? you can't exactly run to the rescue because you risk breaking the aggro of the other enemies on you. that's why i don't like the idea of rounding up enemies.

what i will often do is call the desired first target (usually monks or casters) and then position myself to body block the melee running for my squishies. it's usually just the hard hitters that you want to tank, buying your casters enough time to do their thing.

BBoy_Manchild · Nov 03, 2005, 07:10 PM // 19:10

it doesnt take talent to be a tank, its a newb friendly build
but it doesnt hurt to have a pro who knows what he is doing