Curse

Navaros · Nov 24, 2005, 07:37 AM // 07:37

If you skips maps then even if you win Halls you only get a lousy 6 fame or so (depending on how many maps you skipped).

My point was merely stating that fame accumulation still has it's problems and frustrations no matter what rank or how skilled of a Guild a player is in. Not addressing the lack of ability to get into an array of quality groups, which is a separate issue from the point I was making.

For those who care about winning sigils that only sell for 25k or so now, I guess they may love to skip too, but my point was not addressing that either.

And no my Guild does not do GVG, but GVG is vastly easier to to be successful at therefore to not do it and be an expert in Tombs is not a detriment in any way.

JR · Nov 24, 2005, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

And no my Guild does not do GVG, but GVG is vastly easier to to be successful at therefore to not do it and be an expert in Tombs is not a detriment in any way.

Yes I forgot, of course your right. Tombs ISN'T a joke, full of FoTM builds, PuG groups, more FoTM builds, 16 vs 8 ganking.... more FoTM builds. No, tombs is infact the very raw embodiment of Guild Wars PvP skill. All of the top guilds laugh at GvG, and how silly it is that people actually use 'tactics' and 'proper builds', I mean seriously, what is that all about?

Oh no wait, your wrong.

phearless · Nov 24, 2005, 07:54 AM // 07:54

even skipping to halls and getting 1 fame, if you continue to win you continue to gain fame.

JR is right, but...still is teh scrub

Patrograd · Nov 24, 2005, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

And no my Guild does not do GVG, but GVG is vastly easier to to be successful at therefore to not do it and be an expert in Tombs is not a detriment in any way.

I guess that depends on what you mean by successful. If you have high standards (lets say you want to be in the top 100 on the ladder) then it is a long, long way from being easy, certainly considerably harder than winning and holding HoH every night as every single fight you will have at the top end of the ladder pretty much will be against a well organised, experienced team of players used to fighting together. In fact, once you get past 1200 in rating GvG becomes increasingly difficult (or at least so it seems to me)

If by success you mean get onto the ladder and just have a rating over 1000, then yes, its easy, much easier than gaining fame. But lets face it, thats not much of a standard to set.

The two kinds of combat (Tombs and GvG) are vastly different. Its often more than possible to beat a rank 100 Guild in tombs even with a decent PUG, and equally low (or even non) ranked Guilds can be very good tombs teams. But dont let this fool you into thinking that GvG is easier than tombs. Often guilds will use tombs as a build test for GvG builds (although this is less the case now as the two forms of combat further diversify), often guilds will use tombs as a run out area for potential new members, and often the guild team that takes part in tombs battles isnt anything like the Guild's GvG team, who may well be doing GvG while you beat up their second or third string in tombs. Somtimes it is just hard to switch from the kind of tactical analytical thinking you need in GvG to the kind of hectic high damage very quick style of combat you need in tombs. Where one is a game of chess, the other is NFL. :-)

tafy69 · Nov 24, 2005, 08:24 AM // 08:24

iway for gaining fame is great, its a good way to get some of your guildies up to r3 quick, or even r6.

I was running r6+ balanced team yesterday with 80% of ppl i knew, beat 90% of other normal teams only to lose to iway everytime we met them.

Was thinkin of changing the build just for iway defense, but would ruin it completely

God iway hurts people making balanced teams, no wonder every1 runs a trapper and surge mesmers

JR · Nov 24, 2005, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

Where one is a game of chess, the other is NFL. :-)

I'm so writing that down for later use. <3

Mystical · Nov 24, 2005, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adambomb

We aren't all like that you know....

Yes, there are a few of us. Then there are those who (even after telling them to stop) keep shouting "gogogogogogogog" over and over agian. Being a group leader I would like to make sure the group is on the same page but there are those "12-year-olds" who think once the group has 8 members it's time to go. Unfortunaly they outnumber us "good" ones by a mass amount.

SIDE NOTE: I certainty hope this kind of act does stop as I climb the rank ladder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

Well, if you wanna hear something ironic that might comfort you a bit; I'm in an expert Guild that is capable of beating most other teams, but I have gone back to using IWAY even so because my Guild mates love to skip maps (which totally fubars my fame accumulation rate) whereas in my own IWAY pugs I can quit and go back in again if skips happen. And also my Guild likes to try "test builds" that hardly get any fame.

Joining R6+ PUGs is even worse because they are less skilled, and after they get a party together (which takes forever, usually), they often still lose a few rounds in and then disband. Only accumulating a few fame for the whole ordeal.

What I'm trying to say is, the grass is always greener on the other side. A person less than Rank 6 and who's not in a good Guild may think that having those two things would solve his fame accumulation woes; but in actuality they may just cause for new frustrations to arise.

For these reasons, in one way or another fame always remains a tough thing to rack up.

I'm glad to hear from one of the HoH's "elites". I put you up there since I've seen your guild win Halls, even fought your guild and lost, but bare in mind this is from a rankless player who's only been to the HoH a hand full of times -- mostly by skipping maps none the less.

This is good to read though, it's encouraging that you have to deal with IWAY aswell. Although, I have to disagree with your assumption that someone without a PvP guild is gunna stay on par with someone who is. A good example whould be you and I. I'm from a primary PvE guild, you come from a very experienced guild which can win. You can't say I can keep up with your rank, since I'll be looking for a PUG while you're sitting in HoH looking at your loot.

OneArmedScissor · Nov 24, 2005, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Fact of the matter, if you don't have r3+, you won't be playing in any good groups.

JR · Nov 24, 2005, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneArmedScissor

Fact of the matter, if you don't have r3+, you won't be playing in any good groups.

Meh.

"Fact of the matter, if you don't have r3+, you won't be playing in any good pugs."

Corrected. And we all know how bad pugs are anyway.

OneArmedScissor · Nov 24, 2005, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Meh.

"Fact of the matter, if you don't have r3+, you won't be playing in any good pugs."

Corrected. And we all know how bad pugs are anyway.

PUG = Pick up Group... which is still the same as a group. The fact that it has the word group in it makes you look like a fool. Thanks for playing.

Regardless if you're with abunch of knuckleheads or your guild, whenever you join a group, it's still a group.

JR · Nov 24, 2005, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneArmedScissor

PUG = Pick up Group... which is still the same as a group. The fact that it has the word group in it makes you look like a fool. Thanks for playing.

Regardless if you're with abunch of knuckleheads or your guild, whenever you join a group, it's still a group.

I was just clarifying your point, as it could have been taken the wrong way. A group is a group, be it a guild group, a group of friends, whatever, or a pug group. You didn't make it clear you meant pug.

....Thanks for playing.

CAT · Nov 24, 2005, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Yes I forgot, of course your right. Tombs ISN'T a joke, full of FoTM builds, PuG groups, more FoTM builds, 16 vs 8 ganking.... more FoTM builds. No, tombs is infact the very raw embodiment of Guild Wars PvP skill. All of the top guilds laugh at GvG, and how silly it is that people actually use 'tactics' and 'proper builds', I mean seriously, what is that all about?

Oh no wait, your wrong.

hasn't heard of apathy

what a joke

JR · Nov 24, 2005, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAT

hasn't heard of apathy

what a joke

Yes, I do know apathy. I am however not really seeing your point...

Zephyr Jackson · Nov 24, 2005, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Ihave a prot monk if anyone needs me

ign
Zephyr Jackson
Monk - S A W T W O
Cheerio Jangles

rank 0 but i have done thirsty mission me being only monk and still was successful :S

malus · Nov 26, 2005, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Thats so true im only rank 2 and people will rarely let me into there hoh team cause they think im a noob this is teribly wrong me being the primary monk in my guild which is rank 43 so as you see id look for someone who when he gets into your group basically just starts askin ppl what we doin and what skill he could bring etc

(cause we alll know how many ppl play iway to get there fame up and they have no skill what so ever, no offence i know theres some extremely smart and good iway players out there but there are the dumb ones.

Gwenhywar · Nov 26, 2005, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneArmedScissor

PUG = Pick up Group... which is still the same as a group. The fact that it has the word group in it makes you look like a fool. Thanks for playing.

Regardless if you're with abunch of knuckleheads or your guild, whenever you join a group, it's still a group.

Huh, normally, people in your guild couldn't care less what your rank is. They care whether you can play a certain class or not, and if they know you are good at something, they'll want you to play it. If they know you suck at playing X class, they won't want you to play it for serious groups even if you're rank 9.

Rank only facilitates getting into PUGs (ie, groups of people who don't know your skill and have no other means to quickly measure it), like JR already pointed out to you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zephyr Jackson

rank 0 but i have done thirsty mission me being only monk and still was successful :S

Having some actual PvP experience would be an asset

. Random and team arenas are great for learning to monk, because 90% of the time you'll have to survive with everyone on the other team pounding on you. Since all PvE missions can be done with henchie monks, or no monks at all, it's hardly any indication of someone's skill.

Sephir Demange · Nov 28, 2005, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Over half the threads in the PvP section degenerate into this. And it's pretty much all of us same people belaboring the same point. Tombs begins by being pretty much who you know, rather than how good you are. The only way I could envision someone having an "easy" time of breaking into the Tombs scene is if a guild or already experienced group of friends helped out. All of us started at the bottom of the food chain, you just have to meet people, make friends with like minded individuals, and learn. Most people under rank 9 are concerned with gaining fame, most individuals over rank 9 could care less about fame though I suppose that will change soon as people start to hit rank 12. But Guild Wars is like any other game in that, most of the time, no one is going to hold your hand while you learn. My suggestion is jump in there, see what groups are forming, ask whats involved, and get good at a position that consistantly needs filling. Eventually you will find yourself with a decent friends list and, most likely, come to dislike PUG'ing.

Quick Post Script: I originally looked at this thinking some enterprising person decided to assemble an 8 man team for tombs on here. Not a bad idea considering how many malcontents we have just sitting around on these forums all day.

glenn_rolfe · Nov 28, 2005, 10:47 PM // 22:47

I don't monk a lot, but I noticed a massive difference in monking from GvG to HoH.

And trust me, when people in tombs groups see people spamming, "not much rank but play a lot of GvG" - they just laugh. It's a fact.

OneArmedScissor · Nov 29, 2005, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwenhywar

Huh, normally, people in your guild couldn't care less what your rank is. They care whether you can play a certain class or not, and if they know you are good at something, they'll want you to play it. If they know you suck at playing X class, they won't want you to play it for serious groups even if you're rank 9.

Rank only facilitates getting into PUGs (ie, groups of people who don't know your skill and have no other means to quickly measure it), like JR already pointed out to you.

Having some actual PvP experience would be an asset

. Random and team arenas are great for learning to monk, because 90% of the time you'll have to survive with everyone on the other team pounding on you. Since all PvE missions can be done with henchie monks, or no monks at all, it's hardly any indication of someone's skill.

Everything you said addressed nothing that I posted. Read my post better because I was in no way making any kind of comment about a rank and guild relationship, etc.