Curse

Manfred · Nov 28, 2005, 01:36 PM // 13:36

I'm ina running argument over whether, for ranger spike in gvg, it's better to

a) drop our prot monk for a fifth spiker with nature's renewal AND basically turn the orderer into a flag runner who casts just oov in close coordination with the spike, outside of the nature's renewal.

or... b) run with 4 spikers and a prot monk

I like a, because it kills prot AND frees up space for another spiker (maybe r/n with rigor mortis), but b is tried and true, and people don't like giving up a prot monk.

What do you think?

a cadet · Nov 28, 2005, 01:50 PM // 13:50

It would probably help if we understood what the original set up was, before your planned change. But, I can tell you this much:

A ranger spike can be done with only 3 rangers, and an orders Me/N. If you time Dual Shot/QuickShot/Savage Shot, under dual orders, it will definetly kill the target in question.

So, if you need a 5th spiker, something clearly isnt right. But you should know that most of the damage in a ranger spike comes from a combination of the Orders (Vampire/Pain) and Preparations/Buffs (Ignite Arrows/RtW/Favorable Winds, Winnowing, etc). Dropping an orders Mesmer, or even just taking away orders from several spikes is definetly not a good idea. That is the reason Dual Shot is used in the spike, it best takes advantage of all the damage buffs.

As to wether you need all the monks in the current heavy spike metagame, I really couldnt tell you. Some people think that using just 2 monks - 1 Boon Prot and 1 Infuser - is enough; but i dont have enough experience in this to tell you a real answer.

Manfred · Nov 28, 2005, 02:06 PM // 14:06

We do usually kill except against sheilds up, but if we run nature's renewal, we a) make the enemy's prot monk useless and b) make orders last half as long. So, really what i'm asking is if the trade-off there is worth it.

JR · Nov 28, 2005, 02:32 PM // 14:32

I wouldn't say you really needed it. Well timed strips/drains can do the job of making a prot monk useless.

Sephir Demange · Nov 28, 2005, 03:53 PM // 15:53

I've seen a really effective ranger spike run in GvG and the answer is mostly this it seems. Stick with the standard set up of the 4 spikers, but make sure one fills his utility slots with running skills and make sure he knows to recap the tower whenever your team loses it. The prot is even more capable in GvG in my opinion (as I was the one running it) because you can hide quite effectively and don't need to worry about buffing a suicidal ghostly hero. The prot can actually run life bond and vital blessings if needed. Also, you may want to switch out the standard Whirling Defenses for Dodge. Rely on getting the first spike with your longbows to combat another ranger spike team. Dodge is essential for the "base campers" who sit in that little circle with the Guild Lord, you either decide to Dodge in and get a quick spike, or run in and spike then Dodge out. Hope that helps.

Almighty Zi · Nov 30, 2005, 05:08 AM // 05:08

The best counter to any spike is infuse health which your natures renewal will not effect. Your best bet may be to wrap your orders and prot into one nice parcel with a nec/mo and then make your spare slot a fast cast mes/nec.

The mes/nec could have rigor mortis and corpse control such as consume corpse as well as other skills to benefit your group.

If you come up against teams using shields up or a lot of enchantments then your fast-cast mes/nec should time his rigor to land on the target at the precise moment your spike occurs. You may want to echo the rigor however as it has quite a long recharge.

I don't know how your team is set up at the moment or how you guys play so this may not be the best advice. I hope that this is helpful nonetheless.

Vermilion Okeanos · Nov 30, 2005, 05:51 AM // 05:51

this is two directions you are going for.

Offensive or Defensive.

If you are confident about your players being high end Offensive players, then the choice should be obvious, vise-versa.

Defensive tactic allow more room for mistakes, if you make a mistake, your chance of maintaining and come back is at higher rate.
Offensive tactic allow less room for mistakes, if you do make one, it will hurt.

As a spiker group, I would rather go for offense all the way, due to that there are no point in dragging it out and lose eventually when you meet your counter. While if the offense is strong enough, some counter although may be counter, they won't be prepared to such degree of agression; nothing is unbreakable if enough force is applied.

Spiker tactic by nature is a do or die. A surprise tactic that catch the enemy offguard and finish them before they can reorganize and react against it. However, if the opponent are indeed prepared for it, you will usually recieve heavy casualty.

Flip a coin if you want.

Rey Lentless · Nov 30, 2005, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Why do you want to run nature's in the first place?

Maltare · Nov 30, 2005, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manfred

I'm ina running argument over whether, for ranger spike in gvg, it's better to

a) drop our prot monk for a fifth spiker with nature's renewal AND basically turn the orderer into a flag runner who casts just oov in close coordination with the spike, outside of the nature's renewal.

or... b) run with 4 spikers and a prot monk

I like a, because it kills prot AND frees up space for another spiker (maybe r/n with rigor mortis), but b is tried and true, and people don't like giving up a prot monk.

What do you think?

Your guild leader hates you doesnt he?

Divine Elemental · Nov 30, 2005, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey Lentless

Why do you want to run nature's in the first place?

LoL

Run The 4 Ranger 1 Mes 3 Monk

Itll get you in top 100 but wont hold u in top 10

lol
4 Rangers = should have a flag runner
1 bring Storm Chaser/Pindown....
and wtf is Natures For..

Manfred · Nov 30, 2005, 02:06 PM // 14:06

To neutralize prot.
And no, no he doesn't.
Yeah, lost the first few encounters with a half-decent ranger spike the other day in gvg becasue of this tactic. It basically made the prot skills ( i.e. sheilding hands) that keep people alive against ranger spike not work anymore. It makes bonders not work anymore. BUt it means that WE don't have prot either, although that frees up space for a runner. And more teams are running sheilds up, we need 4, sometimes 5 spikers to still kill through that first time.

Excite X · Nov 30, 2005, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by a cadet

It would probably help if we understood what the original set up was, before your planned change. But, I can tell you this much:

A ranger spike can be done with only 3 rangers, and an orders Me/N. If you time Dual Shot/QuickShot/Savage Shot, under dual orders, it will definetly kill the target in question.

Bleh, screw quickshot, worthless skill. Use punishing.

Also, RtW and Fav. Winds DOES NOT STACK for arrow speed/dmg.

Yamat · Dec 01, 2005, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excite X

Also, RtW and Fav. Winds DOES NOT STACK for arrow speed/dmg.

Yes it does; you're just doing it wrong.

pagansaint · Dec 01, 2005, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Read the Wind THEN Favorable Winds and they will stack, but Favorable first is over ridden by Read the Wind. 4 rangers using it should have your spike at near exactly every 15 seconds.

Manfred · Dec 01, 2005, 09:42 PM // 21:42

eh, it's easier for our build to just take only FW and something like inspired hex or throw dirt instead.