Curse

SoTzuMe · Nov 21, 2005, 03:21 AM // 03:21

I do like OoB for a primary healer on a team: reliability > all

If you can risk the exposure, mo/me is great, more flexibility as noted above, and monk elites can be nice to have around.

For heavy skills like Aegis, mo/el with glyphs is beauty incarnate and frees up an elite as well.

It really depends on how you fit into the trinity.

JR · Nov 21, 2005, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoTzuMe

I do like OoB for a primary healer on a team: reliability > all

If you can risk the exposure, mo/me is great, more flexibility as noted above, and monk elites can be nice to have around.

For heavy skills like Aegis, mo/el with glyphs is beauty incarnate and frees up an elite as well.

It really depends on how you fit into the trinity.

Or a duality, if we are talking about the GvG metagame.

cheez_keeper · Nov 29, 2005, 09:46 AM // 09:46

i have been expirimenting with Mo/Es and E/Mos lately. a lot of... interesting... energy management options, but i think OoB is still the best net... well next to balth spirit against an IWAY team

judge1121 · Nov 29, 2005, 01:24 PM // 13:24

i played monk too much and for healer is good to be mo/mes or mo/n
for prot i see myself better as a mo/ele and im sometimes the only in my group who can manage their energy well enough to save ppl.

Sephir Demange · Nov 29, 2005, 05:19 PM // 17:19

I personally don't like OoB without QZ being up. The recharge isn't too high normally but it just doesn't seem to be up enough for me, though honestly I don't practice it often without QZ up so I'm probably not being efficient enough. For standard healing though, I'll use Channeling and Inspired Hex, other than that it's just smart use of healing ftw. To be honest, you just need to have a monk backline that works together well. Energy management need not be complicated if the monks aren't overhealing and call whatever enchants they do. I like the spot healing that WoH offers which is the heal of choice if your under E-Denial, and I'll uninstall the day an edenial mesmer can keep me from casting my heals effectively.

judge1121 · Nov 30, 2005, 04:39 PM // 16:39

ya is always low lvl energy skills ftw.

Bel Ebih · Dec 03, 2005, 09:40 PM // 21:40

If you have a trapper on your team, VIM works very well. Just stick close to him both for protection and to reap the conditions. Though, I usually just go Mo/Me with Channeling. It costs only 5eng to cast and lasts long enough without having to put more than 8 att levels in Inspiration. I know a lot of people that prefer OoB, but for me, the net gain from it is just too little at too high a cost, plus it recharges fairly slow.

Also, the most fun I've had with an energy management skill was with Channeling. Going up against a Minion Factory and then hiding in a corner spamming Heal Party without losing a bit of energy was a blast.

CAT · Dec 04, 2005, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

I don't know why people can't get it into their tiny heads that inspiration is just better. I'm going to copy and paste things now and hope people are literate on this forum.

Oob @ 10 blood = 16 energy at the cost of 5, 11 net energy, every 15 seconds. This comes out to .7333 energy per second.

Mantra of Recall @ 10 inspiration = 23 energy at the cost of 10, 13 net energy, every 20 seconds. This comes out to .65 energy per second.

Seems pretty obvious which one is better, right? Well OoB sacrifices hp.. and the mantra has a higher cost up front, and you have to wait for it. Now think about this: You're using inpiration. Unlike blood, you get channeling, inspired hex, drain enchant, power leak, god knows what else. I usually only take inspired hex. Now let's add that to the mix.

Inspired Hex @ 10 inspiration = 11 energy at the cost of 5, 6 net energy, ever 20 seconds. This comes out to .3 energy per second. Now add that to Mantra of Recall. You get .95 energy per second, and hex removal on top.

I realize that not every one can just pick up inspiration and be effective with it, because it does take some getting used to. Saying that an elite is ineffective when it isn't, however, is another matter. Going mesmer secondary also gives you hex breaker. You do your thing, and I'll do mine.

-about the 20 second comment- That's about as smart as saying, "OMG OoB is a pos! You can never tell 15 seconds in advance when you'll need it! It might be recharging!"

Give me a break. 5 seconds more isn't a million times harder to predict. If you're getting your enchants broken all the time, then just cast when you need the energy, simple.

That's pretty much it, OoB is nice because you just hit it, and it's energy, right then, right there. This is more useful to the average guildwars player, since it requires little thought. For the rest of us that can pay attention to the battlefield, and our own resources, there's inspiration.

I don't want to hear any more of this, "omg nub blood is so much beter" crap.

For someone who is so critical on other peoples numbers, your math is pretty crappy. Just for your purposes, "omg nub blood is so much better".

Quote:

Mantra of Recall @ 10 inspiration = 23 energy at the cost of 10, 13 net energy, every 20 seconds. This comes out to .65 energy per second.

The cast time is 21 seconds, also being 1 second easily inturruptable and GG under migraine or arcane cun. Comes out to be .619 net regen.

Quote:

Inspired Hex @ 10 inspiration = 11 energy at the cost of 5, 6 net energy, ever 20 seconds. This comes out to .3 energy per second. Now add that to Mantra of Recall. You get .95 energy per second, and hex removal on top.

1 second cast again... .285 Net Energy Regen

So lets compare OoB Vrs Inspiration
Skill Slots:
OoB - 1 Insp - 2
Total Casting Time:
OoB - .25 seconds Insp - 2 Seconds (8 times more rofl)
Net Energy Regen:
OoB - .7333 Insp - .904

So you are sacrificing an extra skill slot, 1.75 seconds of casting every 20 seconds, and using the worst hex removal in the game aside from shatter hex just to gain .171 Mana Regen. Thats.... approx 1 mana every 18 seconds i believe. Is it really worth it? And if Recall gets inappropriately shattered, ends when you dont need energy, or is inturrupted, then you fall way behind in numers compared to oob. Also let me point out

-Spiritwise, two popular spirits are NR and QZ. QZ makes oob recharge twice as fast while adds nothing to either inspired or recall. NR increases the cast time of recall to 2s while has no effect on OoB. Profanes, although more rare, will also cause you to lose major energy if your not paying optimal attention.

If you have more arguements about inspiration I'd like to shoot them down, because you obviously have no idea what you are talking about

If all your satisfied with is numbers and you dont care that your using just plain bad energy management(enchantments, poor hex removal) then run an e/mo healer with ether prodigy. Over 5.5+ energy regen. =)

Allmightybob · Dec 04, 2005, 08:06 AM // 08:06

From release to now, I have never had Scourge Sacrifice casted on me.

BBoy_Manchild · Dec 05, 2005, 02:43 AM // 02:43

have we all forgotten the wonderful skill known as spirit of failure... anyways
mantra of recall seems more of a PVE skill then PVP skill cause a party with good planning can make it easier to use it, computer mobs dont rush unexpectedly
and ViM is too situational to be really effective in all PvP fights

JoeKnowMo · Dec 05, 2005, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAT

So lets compare OoB Vrs Inspiration
Skill Slots:
OoB - 1 Insp - 2
Total Casting Time:
OoB - .25 seconds Insp - 2 Seconds (8 times more rofl)
Net Energy Regen:
OoB - .7333 Insp - .904

So you are sacrificing an extra skill slot, 1.75 seconds of casting every 20 seconds, and using the worst hex removal in the game aside from shatter hex just to gain .171 Mana Regen. Thats.... approx 1 mana every 18 seconds i believe. Is it really worth it? And if Recall gets inappropriately shattered, ends when you dont need energy, or is inturrupted, then you fall way behind in numers compared to oob. Also let me point out

-Spiritwise, two popular spirits are NR and QZ. QZ makes oob recharge twice as fast while adds nothing to either inspired or recall. NR increases the cast time of recall to 2s while has no effect on OoB. Profanes, although more rare, will also cause you to lose major energy if your not paying optimal attention.

If you have more arguements about inspiration I'd like to shoot them down, because you obviously have no idea what you are talking about

If all your satisfied with is numbers and you dont care that your using just plain bad energy management(enchantments, poor hex removal) then run an e/mo healer with ether prodigy. Over 5.5+ energy regen. =)

I'm only going to talk about OOB vs Inspiration from the perspective of PvE. There are too many counters and "what-if" scenarios in PvP to really make a strong argument for either unless you can specify the opponent you are playing against. (E.g., "What if someone brings sig of humility and shuts down your OOB?"). Well, there are no monsters that I know of who use sig of humility, so arguments based on "what-if"s do not apply.

I will also not be very specific with energy gained (pips per second or anything of that sort) based on time as playing styles may differ, or you may not need the energy right away each time, or you may not get a chance to use the energy gain skill as you're busy healing or protecting. These are not perfectly timed builds (like a Flourish build), so I will use more general time frames of 60 secs and 90 secs and so on.

Also, in PvP you may need to bring 6 monk skills to be effective, leaving 1 spot for energy gain and 1 for a rez. This obviously makes OOB a nice choice.

OOB (at Blood Magic level 10) gives you + 11 energy (16 energy gained minus 5 energy cost), with a recharge time of 15 seconds. Every 33 seconds or so you can gain + 33 energy with OOB (assuming you start out with OOB). Pretty nice.

Let's compare that to Power Drain (at Inspiration lvl 10). Power Drain (an interrupt) gives you + 16 energy (21 gained minus 5 energy cost). Every 30 seconds or so, you could gain about 32 energy (assuming you start out with power drain). Not too bad either. The problem is that you need to interrupt a spell to gain the energy. If there are no casters around, no energy for joo. Power drain won't work on healing sig or troll unguent...

Let's say you wait for about 30 secs into a fight, to use these energy gain skills. Over the course of the ensuing 60 - 70 secs let's say you can use OOB 4 or 5 times and Power Drain 3 times. That's 44 to 55 energy net gain with OOB vs. 48 energy with Power Drain. Looks pretty close.

So even with having to use one energy gain skill, a non-elite like power drain can compare quite well with OOB. Also, using power drain allows you to use an elite like Word of Healing which can more than make up for any small difference in energy gain from OOB.

Granted it is quite difficult in PvP to find a spellcaster enemy to interrupt when your energy is running low and you have to monk you team like crazy. So maybe OOB is still more practical for PvP. However, if you're used to playing an interrupt mesmer, you may find it's not as difficult as you thought. Players don't expect an interrupt from a monk and so will cast in your vicinity. Anyway, as I said before, it is hard to make a strong, cogent case for using either in PvP as your opponents can vary greatly.

PvE allows for more flexibility with your builds, however, since the enemy AI is not that high. As a healing or protecting monk (if I'm not running tons of enchants), I find that about 4 monk spells are sufficient to do my job. Orison, WoH {E}, Dwayna's, Healing Breeze (or Heal Other) for healing and Mend Ailment (or mend condition), Guardian, Reveral of Fortune, and Shield of Deflection or Shield of Reneration {E}. This leaves 3 slots for my secondary which is where inspiration really shines.

From the Inspiration line, you can choose from Channeling, Drain Enchantment, Inspired Hex, Energy Tap, Spirit of Failure, or Leech Signet for energy gain. What I like to do, is bring Leech Sig and Mantra of Inscriptions. Mantra of Inscriptions (MoI) costs 10 energy but lasts for 70 seconds at Inspiration lvl 10 and reduces signet recharge time by 42%. Leech sig, will interrupt any action, but will return 11 energy to you if the interrupted foe was casting a spell. MoI reduces the recharge time of Leech sig from 45 secs to 27 secs.

Over the course of about 60 -70 seconds, you could gain + 33 energy from Leech Sig. Combined with Power Drain (+ 48 over 70 secs), you are looking at + 81 energy over the course of 70 seconds or so. Tough part is, these are both interrupts. You could subtract the 10 energy required for MoI (you will have to recast at least once during battle , and you would still have + 71 energy.)

Now, here's why I chose interrupts. As a monk, you have to heal any damage done to you or your allies. Interrupting a spell, especially a highly damaging one, means you do not have to heal for that damage. (E.g., interruping a meteor shower or a well of suffering or a death nova may save you from having to spend the 10 or 15 energy required to heal your allies.) It is quite easy to interrupt spells in PvE and only rarely do you find yourself in long, energy-draining fights with no enemy casters present to interrupt.

In fact, I usually start out a battle by using both interrupts at the beginning of the fight event though I don't need the energy. It prevents a decent amount of damage to my team and helps to waste the enemy's energy. Within about 30 secs, both interrupts are recharged, and now if I need energy I'll look for opportunities to interrupt. It's very rarely that I run into energy problems using this build. Even against warrior and ranger types, I don't have much trouble, and I'll still use leech sig to interrupt their healing or other skills (e.g., preparations) with longer cast times - no energy gain, but an interrupt nonetheless.

If you want to only carry 2 skills from inspiration, I would use Power Drain for sure, and Channeling or Drain Enchantment.

I'm still partial to interrupts b/c if you can prevent damage from happening, you don't have to spend energy healing it. Most of the damaging spells in the game have long cast times (Chain lightning, meteor shower, etc.) and you will save yourself a lot of trouble if you can prevent these spells from being used in the first place. You can also interrupt some healing spells like Ether Feast, if you're quick. Two well place interrupts to begin a fight can rapidly turn the tide in your favor. Even if you don't need the energy, it's still good to interrupt.

Casting time for Power Drain and Leech Sig is 1/4 sec each. Casting time for MoI is zero, since it is a stance. Try it out, you might like it. You get a two-fer with the interrupt and energy gain (and therefore, less healing you have to do).

Having had practice playing an interrupt mesmer is very important in using this build effectively. You need to know enemy caster tendencies, and also which spells of their can be interrupted. A novice, w/o experience playing an interrupting mes, might waste their interrupts by trying to interrupt Orison (nigh impossible) when they should wait for an enemy's life to get low and then look for enemy monk to use Mark of Protection, which is interruptible. As soon as a dead body drops, the enemy necro might start using Animate Bone Fiend, an easy spell to interrupt. You'll need to pay attention to these things, in order to use this build in the most effective way. Also, a novice may waste Power Drain by trying to interrupt a healing sig.

It's quite challenging to monitor the health of your teammates while occasionally monitoring the enemy looking for spells to interrupt (which is why this may not work in PvP). It takes a bit of practice, but it's a fun build to play. You may miss with an interrupt now and then, don't worry about it. That's why you should take 2 interrupts. You'll always wanna make sure MoI is active before using Leech Sig. Otherwise, its recharge time is unbearable.

With this build I usually find myself just throwing healing breezes on allies randomly, cuz I have too much energy

I've gotten tons of kudos from random PUGs using this build, cuz I never run out of energy and also cuz (some) players are amazed when they find a monk who also interrupted the enemy's Chain Lightning or Meteor Shower or Rodgorts or healing skill... I use mostly the low (5 mana) energy healing or prot spells. Then when I'm low on energy, 2 interrupts can give me + 16 and + 11 energy, for a grand total of + 27 energy in a pinch.

Not saying the OOB vs. Inspiration debate is resolved.

But for PvE, I think inspiration has the edge, since you have room for 2 or 3 secondary skills and it allows you to use a monk elite.

For PvP, the inspiration line of energy gain is alright. It can be really hard to keep your allies healed while keeping an eye on enemies for skills to interrupt. The non-interrupts from Inspiration don't net you as much energy and therefore do not compare well to OOB. Therefore, OOB with the edge in PvP.

OOB doesn't fare that well even against Power Drain by itself, when you factor in the reduced damage caused by your interrupt. Assume that each enemy skill you interrupt saves you between 5 and 10 energy you would have had to use for healing (let's say 5 energy to be conservative, as some spells don't do damage, and some do major amounts). Therefore, each time you use power drain you are also saving 5 energy in addition to the energy gain. Thus, the + 16 net energy gain becomes + 21. Using this as your energy gain, means that you will gain + 63 energy (48 + 15) over the course of 60 - 70 seconds from just this one spell. And OOB as we saw was between 44 and 55 energy.

Now factor in another 5 energy saved for using another interrupt, Leech Sig, and now Leech Sig results in a gain (and savings) of + 16 energy (11 + 5). Used 3 times (due to MoI) over the course of 60-70 secs, means 48 energy gained (and saved). Thus your three skills from the inspiration line can get you 63 + 48 = 111 energy (factoring both energy gained and energy saved) over the course of 60 - 70 secs (about 30 secs into a fight). Minus the 10 or 20 energy required to maintain the MoI stance, you still have 91 energy (adding gained + saved).

Also, since we're doing this math based on the need of energy, which only occurs 30 secs or more into a fight, OOB is not used at all during this time. However, power drain and leech sig can be used at the start of the fight (not for energy but for interrupts), and they will have recharged by the time you need energy. So factor in another 10 energy saved (by your interrupts at the beginning of the fight) and we're looking at about 101 energy (gained + saved). So in the span of about 100-110 seconds, you would have 101 more energy to work with than a typical monk that did not use any energy management.

As I suggested before, the math here is not precise, but is rather general. Who is to say what the precise monk energy savings are from interrupting a spell? It can vary greatly... But I feel that 5 energy is a fair, if conservative, estimate.

Looking at just OOB and Power Drain again: If you factor in the initial interrupt from power drain (counting energy saved, not energy gained), then that's 63 + 5 = 68 energy (saved and gained) by using Power Drain vs. the 55 from OOB. The 5 energy required for the initial Power Drain at the start of a fight will usually recharge before you need to use a healing spell, so I'm not including the energy cost. Also, at some point you have to heal yourself for using OOB. If you use it 5 times (for 55 energy), then you have to heal the 200 or so dmg done to yourself. So maybe 1 or 2 heal spells are needed to offset OOB. Let's say 1 spell, which means that it's 55 - 5 = 50 energy gained from OOB over the first 100-110 seconds of a fight.

Comparing OOB to the 3 Inspiration skills I suggest (not fair, since it's 1 skill vs. 3), over the first 100-110 seconds of a fight, we find that OOB gives about + 50 energy net gain and the 3 Inspiration skills gives about 48 + 33 = + 81 energy net gain. Factor in the + 20 energy (at least) saved due to interrupts and you're looking at 50 vs. 101. I would expect 3 skills to do at least twice as well as 1 skill (which happens to be an elite), and that is the case here.

So lets re-compare OoB Vrs Inspiration (using 3 skills)

Skill Slots:
OoB - 1 Insp - 3

Elite Slot Used:
OoB - Yes Insp - No

Total Casting Time:
OoB - .25 seconds Insp - .50 Seconds (.25 per interrupt, stance is zero)

Net Energy Gained and Saved over the course of a 2-min or so fight:
OoB - 50 Insp - 101

1 vs. 3 is really not fair, so how about 1 vs. 1.

How about OoB vs. Inspiration using 1 skill (Power Drain)

Skill Slots:
OoB - 1 Insp - 1

Elite Slot Used:
OoB - Yes Insp - No

Total Casting Time:
OoB - .25 seconds Insp - .25 Seconds

Net Energy Gained and Saved over the course of a 2-min or so fight:
OoB - 50 Insp - 68

Hmm.... OoB doesn't look so good now. However, one never misses with OoB, but one can miss with the interrupts. Also, you can use OoB when there are no casters around, not so with the inspiration interrupts. Anyway, if you miss 1 out of 4 times with Power Drain, then that's minus 21 energy (gained and saved), which means you will gain (and save) 47 energy instead of 68. (Subtracted 21 energy which is the net gain and savings from Power Drain). 50 energy from an elite vs. 47 from a non-elite isn't much of a debate IMO.

If you miss your interrupts twice using the 3 skills from inspiration, then your net energy gained and saved would be 101 - (21 + 16) = 64. So you can see that Power Drain is the key to this build. Leech sig adds a bit, but not too much. It's just nice to be able to interrupt non-spells (like healing sigs and troll unguents) when the need arises. And it's handy to have a skill that requires no energy to use.

We usually only think of interrupts as preventing a skill from being used, however, I suggest (and others have too) that we need to look at the other effects. The main one is saving energy for your monks b/c they have to heal less. The second effect, is that it acts like an energy drain of sorts. When an enemy is interrupted in the middle of a skill, they lose the amount of energy required to use that skill, even though they did not get to use the skill. So, interrupting a meteor shower or deep freeze, not only interrupts the spell, but the enemy caster (usually a Hydra or Ice Golem) will not get back the 25 energy that was used when they began casting the spell. Interrupt 2 of these in a row, and your enemy has lost 50 energy without any benefit to itself.

You can interrupt faster than Rangers so you don't need to worry about them pre-empting your interrupts with interrupts of their own. A mesmer, however, with a few points in fast casting can usually out-interrupt you. However, the interrupting mesmer is a rarity. If you have one on your team let them you you plan on doing interrupts for energy and maybe both of you need to call your interrupts.

I have not found a good way to use Mantra of Recall yet, so I'm not a big fan of it, especially since it is an elite. Also, not a big fan of channeling as it usually gets stripped in the later levels of the game. Drain enchant is alright, but requires 10 energy and only nets you + 7 energy. Inspired Hex is not one of my faves either - you get little energy and typically remove a fairly weak hex. Also, it's usually not a hex you can use, since you won't have points in Domination or Illusion or Curses or whatever. If you have 3 spots available for secondary, go with Power Drain, Leech Sig, and MoI. Wild Blow is the only skill I know of that can knock you out of your stance, so watch for it (Charr and FoW).

Inspired Hex is laughable compared to Power Drain. You gain 11 energy minus the cost of the spell, 5 energy for a net gain of + 6. Its recharge time is only 5 seconds less. Also, why use inspired hex on only one ally to remove Deep Freeze when you can interrupt the spell in the first place and keep it off several of your allies. I won't even go into why Energy Tap sux and why Energy Drain is a weak elite as it should be fairly obvious by now.

I guess Mantra of Recall is s'posed to be used like an energy store of sorts that gives you energy even when it is stripped. So you use it, wait for 5 seconds, run into battle and spam spells, then about 15 seconds into the battle, voila about 20 energy gained. But then having to re-cast it during battle doesn't make much sense, since you have to spend 10 energy and have to wait 20 seconds for the energy gain. If you're lucky enough to have someone strip it away right after you cast it, then you'll gain the energy quicker. At level 10 Inspiration, you're looking at gaining + 13 energy every 20 seconds. In about 70 secs, that's + 39 energy. Pretty weak for an elite.

If you're going to run into a lot of interrupting mesmer types, an alternative is to use Mantra of Resolve or Mantra of Concentration (prevents interruption - I prefer the former)instead of Mantra of Inscriptions and replace Leech Sig with Channeling or Drain Enchant or Inspired Hex.

- JoeKnowMo than Bo

CAT · Dec 06, 2005, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Argueing numbers is pointless in pve, as heal monks are so easy is laughable. I was in FoW as the only healing monk with a prot and i had no energy management(energy tap but never used it, so lame) and it was pretty easy, at the end of every battle i usually had more energy then everyone else and i had to aggro things because i got bored of waiting.

Energy management is really pointless in pve because of your exact point, there is no what-ifs. Theres not going to be an amazing mesmer on your skills or a qz spammer that you cant inturrupt keeping your energy low, your just sitting back and playing the red bar game

Schorny · Dec 06, 2005, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Why bother with a vanilla PvE scenario? It won't mean anything...

And you can't fire up interrupts when in need - and that exactly is the point in PvP. Inspiration line gives you pretty good energy management - but _all_ conditional. OoB grants you awesome energy _no matter what_.

You know:
In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice, they are not.

Yukito Kunisaki · Dec 08, 2005, 05:31 PM // 17:31

I actually, after doing some situation comparisons, like Offering of Blood {E} better than inspiration skills now.

Why?

PLAGUE TOUCH!!!

Monkeys are always the targets of ANYTHING that makes life tougher for them to handle. Hexes fly, but so do conditions. What makes P. Touch so great is that you don't need any stats to make it work. Hex removal from monk or inspiration needs some drawback to make it work. Either hi inspiration for better energy return or you're waiting for a few seconds before remove hex comes back...

P. Touch is instant recovery, 5e. and no stats needed. A monk's perfect answer to self-induced conditions. You can use Mend Condition on your teammates for a stronger level of healing then Mend Ailment. A friend under a Virulence bomb would love Mend Condition better I'm sure...

A healing/prot monk backed by 10 blood magic, OoB and P. Touch is now my personal fav monk and I'm now grooming my wife's new monk to be this vampire style martyr monk. She's going protection though as prot skills don't worry much about low hp bars and timing whereas heal skills need a LOT more dexterity to work with. At least, in my opinion.

BBoy_Manchild · Dec 08, 2005, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

I actually, after doing some situation comparisons, like Offering of Blood {E} better than inspiration skills now.

Why?

PLAGUE TOUCH!!!

Monkeys are always the targets of ANYTHING that makes life tougher for them to handle. Hexes fly, but so do conditions. What makes P. Touch so great is that you don't need any stats to make it work. Hex removal from monk or inspiration needs some drawback to make it work. Either hi inspiration for better energy return or you're waiting for a few seconds before remove hex comes back...

P. Touch is instant recovery, 5e. and no stats needed. A monk's perfect answer to self-induced conditions. You can use Mend Condition on your teammates for a stronger level of healing then Mend Ailment. A friend under a Virulence bomb would love Mend Condition better I'm sure...

A healing/prot monk backed by 10 blood magic, OoB and P. Touch is now my personal fav monk and I'm now grooming my wife's new monk to be this vampire style martyr monk. She's going protection though as prot skills don't worry much about low hp bars and timing whereas heal skills need a LOT more dexterity to work with. At least, in my opinion.

YES YES YES
there hasnt been a warrior i have made this last 2 months that hasnt had this wonderful skill, and about half the monks

Sephir Demange · Dec 09, 2005, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Hmm I'm suprised at the general concensus of this thread. I monk a great deal in tombs, and I personally detest OoB. In fact, I won't touch the skill unless I'm am planning to be under QZ. I understand some of the points people are making, but I think the reason for your thinking may be flawed due to not having experienced a truly cooperative backline. A good monk backline is not about 3 monks acting individually, but acting in conjuction with one another. No one on a team should have to worry about self condition removal. No over healing, double seeds, misplaced Aegis's and slow heals after infuses lead to energy problems as people scramble to heal a second team mate after 2 heal others were dropped on the same person. I think that Channeling and Inspired Hex are all that is really necessary for energy management unless there are special HIGH energy demands and in that case only 1 monk in the backline need run OoB. I think it is important to say that a monk need not have constant full energy, they just have to be able to cast consistently. Think about it like this: Channeling steals 1 energy from each surrounding foe when you cast a spell, if your three main heals are Orison, Kiss, and WoH you are mostly making more energy then you lose. If it is Orison, Kiss, Other, you only have 1 spell that is over 5 energy, so in most cases even if you aren't really surrounded the cost is still considerably reduced, plus you have Inspired Hex for energy boosts that also take care of teammates. Spell cost reduction+an energy management skill that also helps the team= gee gee.

Divine Elemental · Dec 09, 2005, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

"Scourge Sacrifice" *cough*

A monk losing hp to gain energy in the middle of a fight is in more danger than one just taking energy from a foe and doubling it for his/her purposes...

LoL

a ViM monk Relies on Enemy Conditions
while a Monk/Mesmer relies on Enemies/Hex/Enchants
if a opposing team has a good prot that can Condition Removal fast your ViM is a worthless piece of doggy shit
but the other hand a Mo/Me can still keep energy with their Channeling - Very Good IMO Inspired Hex/Enchant it also benefits your team not just you so go mo/me

but if u got a choice go Mo/N

OOB is the best energy management you can get
lol indeed my quote is funny "Scourge Sacrifice" >_< u can remove the hex easily and theres barely anyone who uses it lol OOB FTW

tafy69 · Dec 09, 2005, 07:25 AM // 07:25

OOB is best energy management, but most teams require monks with monk elites like Spell Breaker etc

So inspiration is your only choice for non elite energy management

Typically teams run a SB monk, Main heal monk WoH, and a prot with restore conditions.

Billiard · Dec 09, 2005, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Channeling works okay in tombs but in GvG things tend to be spread out more, making OoB more beneficial I think. Also, the non-situational nature of OoB helps out a lot as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephir Demange

Hmm I'm suprised at the general concensus of this thread. I monk a great deal in tombs, and I personally detest OoB. In fact, I won't touch the skill unless I'm am planning to be under QZ. I understand some of the points people are making, but I think the reason for your thinking may be flawed due to not having experienced a truly cooperative backline. A good monk backline is not about 3 monks acting individually, but acting in conjuction with one another. No one on a team should have to worry about self condition removal. No over healing, double seeds, misplaced Aegis's and slow heals after infuses lead to energy problems as people scramble to heal a second team mate after 2 heal others were dropped on the same person. I think that Channeling and Inspired Hex are all that is really necessary for energy management unless there are special HIGH energy demands and in that case only 1 monk in the backline need run OoB. I think it is important to say that a monk need not have constant full energy, they just have to be able to cast consistently. Think about it like this: Channeling steals 1 energy from each surrounding foe when you cast a spell, if your three main heals are Orison, Kiss, and WoH you are mostly making more energy then you lose. If it is Orison, Kiss, Other, you only have 1 spell that is over 5 energy, so in most cases even if you aren't really surrounded the cost is still considerably reduced, plus you have Inspired Hex for energy boosts that also take care of teammates. Spell cost reduction+an energy management skill that also helps the team= gee gee.

SaintGreg · Dec 09, 2005, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Even if I did ahve scourge sacrifice on me as a monk using OoB so what? 10% now up to 20% big deal...I wouldn't even bother removing it.

I'm a fan of Mo/N and Mo/Me. Often our monks will be using inspired hex as fast free hex removal, the energy is nice too. Its other benefit is that if two people try to remove the same hex the one who was slower still gets to use the skill again, not so with other hex removal.

I like OoB for two reasons - with a fast recharge you can sometimes get to use it more often for even more energy. 1/4 second cast is great when I am in the middle of doing something, which is pretty much all the time trying to keep my teamates from dying.

Inspiration interrupts as a monk are really tough to use well. I hate even just having to cycle through enemies to find an enchanment to drain (calling a target helps of course), actually having to find a caster and wait for him to cast something I can interrupt is really too much to hope for most of the time.

This is a team game, have you ever considered bringing BiP on your monks? The sacrifice does hurt especially with monks being the main target, but neglecting fast recharges on OoB, its close to 2 times as much energy over time as OoB, and you can put it on anyone. You only need 8 blood to make it 5 pips, whereas usually with OoB you tend to use 10 blood. Coordinating putting BiP on each other is a bit of a pain I guess, and scourge sacrifice here really would be unbearable, but it has its merits if you can make it work.