Curse

Manfred · Jan 03, 2006, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Not too long ago i was trying to get together a group for a new build. PBAOE earth spike, fun to do.. but anyhow.

It took me TWO HOURS. TO QUIT TRYING. There were hundreds of IWAY warriors, trappers, necros and rezmers all advertising. But only 6 people were willing or able to try something interesting and new. Over the course of two hours, six people. Think about that.

I predict that from now on the only innovation is going to be in guilds, with none at all in hoh. Sure, people may pirate the more easily fotm-able builds from observed battles, but even those might not gain a foothold. And I can lay this at the doorstep of the meteoric rise of fotms in their quest to protect the brains of guild warriors from the big bad world of the unknown and the uncommon. Fotms, expecially IWAY, enable people to get into groups easily once they pass a threshold, ensuring that more and more people will flock to that. We have entered a cycle from which good pick up groups may never return, and now our duty is to pray that this mania does not touch gvg (it probably won't because there's no "ease of finding a group" issue that pushes people towads fotms).

I pwnd U · Jan 03, 2006, 04:22 AM // 04:22

people resist change they absolulty hate it. most people unless they have seen the build elsewhere will not join it. they are scared to change from what they are used too. people have seen IWAY, MF, and Spike groups work. they dont want to try somethin else and fail so they stick to waht they know. sounds lke a good build but other people arent willing to try it. try posting it somewhere w/ exactly what happens and see what happens. also not to many else run earth magic.

Tarot Ribos · Jan 03, 2006, 04:26 AM // 04:26

You want to know why those people were advertising?

Because they didn't have a group.

Think about what that says about forming any kind of pick up group.

There are only three types of people I form groups with:
1) Guild Mates
2) People on my Friends list (generally, people I've met in real life)
3) Henchmen.

I have these limitations to ensure competance in the group. And the humans in these situations tend to be a bit more flexible about what kind of build to run. Seriously. If your guild doesn't have enough people who are willing to help out, join a different one. Look at all the teams that win HoH battles. Virtually all of the time, they are guild groups. That's a trend worth noticing.

I pwnd U · Jan 03, 2006, 04:34 AM // 04:34

i hate using henchmen. the AI of them have not improved enough for me to play w/ them. Alesia stil runs in and tanks and as a result has to heal herslf so that leaves others open, the mage cast fire storm on DEAD enemies still. i dont mind stefan cept he sprints to everything when u dont want him to and does nothing when u do want him too do sumthin. Reyna is not useful at all. she doesnt interput. the only thing she really she really does is use kindle arrows and basic marksmenship attacks. i go w/ people i dont know just for the rare chnace they are good. normally i try to get in a guild group. i got in one today and we did real well. didnt reach HoH as it was a new kind of build but we consistently won 1 or 2 battles in a row. i just cant stand henchies i think they are not useful when u are going to try to get into or win HoH.

tafy69 · Jan 03, 2006, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Manfred, its really hard to sign people up to a gimmic build. end of story

Manfred · Jan 03, 2006, 01:29 PM // 13:29

GIMMICK? is it a gimmick to not run IWAY? I mean, seriously, besides the fact that it's fun against iway (see ignis' screenie here: http://img309.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw0180xp.jpg) it is a powerful build against the unprepared, it being a 600+ hp spike over 1.5 seconds, for my version. Definitely not a gimmick.

What caused the poor recruiting was not our build, nor was it chance, it was the fotm mindset that has essentially stopped diversity in tombs, because with diversity it's harder to get into groups.

Dmitri3 · Jan 03, 2006, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manfred

http://img309.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw0180xp.jpg)

Holy ****!
How did you win with that protector's setup? I mean later on... when you actually had to take the damage.

On the topic:

It was always impossible or very hard to get new build setup with PUG... need to have a big friends list or a good guild.

Medion · Jan 03, 2006, 02:28 PM // 14:28

I have to agree, the only reason I play IWAY is because that's the only way to get a group quickly. Especially as a rank 1 person.

I on one part would like a nerf on IWAY (more different tactics used again), but also wouldn't. (I would lose my way to play).

If you wanna try it once again, just look if I am online and I might be able to help you try it out.

pagansaint · Jan 03, 2006, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Manfred's build is alot more robust and multi-purpose than a true gimmick build, such as Fragility Me/N or Aura of the Lich, Dark Aura N/Mo builds.

Even IWAY is more of a gimmick build than a PBAoE.

Why? because its gimmick is relying upon the other team kicking their butts right away so they can get their regeneration and attack speed boosts.

But IWAY has more staying power than the two other gimmick builds mentioned. It allows you to run other stances while not sacrificing your IAS, such as: Elemental Resistance, Physical Resistance(this was funny, tell ya'll in a second), Melandru's Resilience, Sprint, Stormchaser, and the ever popular Battle Rage.

Which allows a much more powerful melee warrior.

Physical Resistance story... Right when IWAY first started out as the biggest thing ever. Me and a few friends, decided why not screw em and use Me/W with IW with the W/R's.
Well ended up we would run the pets and Me/W in to get slaughtered, they did, then the W/R use the boost from all of them dead to activate their IWAY then they raised the Me/W. Bam Me/W all back up, pets still dead, activate IWAY, activate Physical Resistance, IW goes up covered by IoW. Also carrying Empathy and other warrior killing spells. Kicks the bejesus out of the first 2 IWAYs we face.

We find a good IWAY team, very well coordinated, modified version(well one of the first modified IWAY team versions). Ripped us apart, we re-res everyone. Bam all the W/R go back down from coordinated attacks. The Me/W with Physical Resistance last about 4 minutes AFTER everyone else went down, with only Ether Feast as a heal, other than Illusion of Weakness and the IWAY regen. The IWAY just could not put quite enough pressure on them after their boost ran out from their first go at us. And of course our 3 Me/W are just fighting along taking hits to the back for 10-20 damage.

Was hilarious, the other team was ANGRY, saying we were using hacks and cheats and stuff the whole time.

Thats why whenever I am monking or necroing and I've seen a good bit of IWAY or Ranger teams I bring along the trusty ole Physical Resistance, not an enchantment, and you aren't evading, so why use Wild Blow right? LoL, keeps me alive more than any Prot Spirit or Bond does against IWAY.

The moral to this story? If you look and think about alot of under used skills and what they can combine with, hey you may just find a way to kick the every living snot out of the FotM builds.

Sparrow · Jan 03, 2006, 03:40 PM // 15:40

I saw someone advertising an Earth spike build last night. Perhaps it was you. At the time I was set up as a trapper looking for a balanced group. I would have rerolled and joined but often when I do that, the group is already full by the time I get back. (That's extremely annoying.)

But also, spike groups are hard to pull off when it's a PUG. I had been in a really bad Obsidian Flame spike group a while back and I was leery of trying it again. However I have done some good ranger spike. It really depends on whether the leader/caller is competent, takes the time to make sure everyone knows what they're doing, etc.

As for the general state of Tombs... the other day my rank 5 guild mate told me it took him 20 minutes to find a balanced group. Apparently to him this was an amazingly long time to get a group. (He usually does IWAY.) This after I had been sitting around all afternoon trying to get a group as a Spiteful Necro, warrior, fire ele, etc., with only a few awful groups letting me in. Usually the best way for me to get in a group that wins a match or two is either a guild group or (shudder) IWAY.

As for experimentation, I enjoy trying new builds. It can be fun. But it can also really suck, especially if you can't kill anything. But so few people actually try to run new builds with PUGs. Most of the innovation happens inside of guilds. Which makes perfect sense. Would you rather test out an experimental build with your friends (who you know are good) or with random strangers who probably suck, and won't get it right even if you hand pick all their skill bars?

And whatever rank may or may not mean, let's face it, there are a lot of noobs trying to get into groups in Tombs. I have all skills unlocked after a ton of CA and TA. But I'm still a Tombs noob (rank 2, 97 fame atm.) Just imagine how bad a player would be who hasn't even unlocked Meteor Shower yet. (I met someone like that recently. He was going to use Energizing Wind but wasn't planning to tell us. I knew he had it on his skillbar since he seemed like a noob and was E/R, but I had to squeeze it out of him. Once I found out he didn't have Meteor Shower, that was the last straw.)

Anyways I haven't figured out yet how to do well in Tombs. My guild is trying to do more Tombs and that's nice. But we only do it like once a week at the most (though we did do it a few times over the Christmas break.) I'm starting to despair of it. Perhaps having fun in Tombs is reserved only for people who like IWAY, or are in a PvP guild.

arrowlord · Jan 03, 2006, 06:21 PM // 18:21

I like iway - free fame four good group and a strainer which stops newbies from getting in later arenas.

Just you need to be prepared to counter iway, ranger spike, foc spike and other crap.

Billiard · Jan 03, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Not really adding much with this thread.