Curse

Phades · Jan 08, 2006, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

a player gotta start from 1 class. mastering all is nice. but its a team play game. one has gotta assume a role or 2 and master a given role. and for sure out of the 400+ skills available, that player will just use a fraction of those.

what makes someone competitive and worthy to be partied is being able to do a few roles (ie monking etc) well.

unlocking all skills isn't necesarilly required for one to be in the competitive field, imho. everything still boils down to player skill (how he can use those 8 skills to contribute to a groups success).

A prot monk is different than a healing monk and both of which can be tuned differently depending on the secondary job. Also only being able to perform 1 job will cramp your team if the usual person for that position is not online. Your philosiphy assumes ideal conditions that do not always exist.

The relative intelegence level of the player has little to do with the actual knowledge the player posesses or the experiences they have had. Forcing them through one particular means of aquisition or use does not make them better. Allowing for easy exploration does raise the bar. Even though there are very limited paramaters that this game exists within, there still can be variation now and in the future for said builds and execution. If it does boil down to exactly 64 skills, then the game has largely failed as far as balance is concerened. You are undervaluing comparisons or the initial learning process greatly to assume people only need pre-made builds or small tweaks from them.

Medion · Jan 08, 2006, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

These are not serious ideas, but this is how most PvE'ers that want to get into PvP feel. I gaurentee it. I am growing tired of killing computer controlled enemies and want to fight other people in PvP battles but the attitudes of the majority of them keep me away.

I feel that way indeed, I am lucky because most of my guild becomes a little bit more interested in PvP so we can go in as a group.

Quote:

This is one example of what a pve/noob player does not do that a pvper does. Arrange thier HUD so that they can see everything important. Hexes like empathy/spiteful spirit/backfire are rarely used in pve so many people do not realize why there getting owned in pvp.

Ok, you say don't put hex/conditions in top left corner

- Where do I put it then?
- How do I put them there then?

Now on topic:
You don't need 4 PvP characters, you can just delete one and make it totally new again after release of chapter 2, now what u are going to do:
Get a run to Lions Arch, I think I heard that every ch1 character can go to Cantha from there. Then as soon as you got ch2, go to Cantha and buy the skills. Now you have all the skills!
Besides that you are in a guild who can run you there, there are also a lot of tiprunners or you could fight your way there.

Rayea · Jan 08, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

i think some of the worry with an unlocked skill set (pvP only) is thaty it will cause skills to be tweeked in pve after some more grimacing from pvp side.
(see NR and arena builds: the changing of a skill to benefit pvp while causing pve to cry till becoming used to situation)

see, to me, i cant be bothered if they get what they want....PROVIDED....
that any and all skills are no longer tweeked in pve.
yeah, LET them have uas on pvp only accounts....but if they once cry about skills and builds getting out of hand and have said skills tweeked to *their* liking but to pve cost, then it all gets taken back.

best way to deal with skills getting out of control in arenas ect is simply to add a script..TO THE ARENA AREA ONLY.
a script that says....X skill with have Y affect when in this area...otherwise it will have Z affect.

simple....neat and has no need to affect the pve area of the game.

and for players of pve that wish to pvp, but are tired of getting called every name known to noobdome....
a pve arena that wont let ou play with a pvp-only char...yeah, i know, it sounds crooked, but it meand that if you play both, you can use the pve char to teach pvp skills in a less threatening envioronment.
(and just to balance things up a little, a pvp-only arena where pve toons are not alowed, so hardcore pvp can play in peace without the noobish antics of the un-educated pve'er)

Goonter · Jan 08, 2006, 06:37 PM // 18:37

I believe Balibazars faction points handles aquiring skills well.
The game could use more premade templates. Id say around 40 or so.

A PvP version of the game, though suggested frequently, I think is a poor idea. Once introduced, it will be a manditory purchase for all players unless they have no intention whatsoever to PvP.

But I do agree that introducing new players to this game is hard, if you want them to play certain builds with your team.

Heres what I think would be the best solution.
Along with faction and new premades we add guild templates.

Through some sort of system that im not going to dream up right now, your guild can unlock skills for the whole group.
So after you install GWs on your grandmas computer and invite her to play in your guild she simply selects a template your guild has created and she fits in with the team build instantly.

This would be a powerful tool, so I would limit it to GvG.
And then also, it should be earned through.....Grenth faction or something that takes team effort.

Akathrielah · Jan 08, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayea

i think some of the worry with an unlocked skill set (pvP only) is thaty it will cause skills to be tweeked in pve after some more grimacing from pvp side.
(see NR and arena builds: the changing of a skill to benefit pvp while causing pve to cry till becoming used to situation)

see, to me, i cant be bothered if they get what they want....PROVIDED....
that any and all skills are no longer tweeked in pve.
yeah, LET them have uas on pvp only accounts....but if they once cry about skills and builds getting out of hand and have said skills tweeked to *their* liking but to pve cost, then it all gets taken back.

NR? Nature's was hardly ever used in PvE, don't give me that bullcrap. And please write a little more coherently.

To PvE cost? Please, its call skill balance, and considering that nearly all PvE missons and areas can be beaten with a two man team, there is hardly any "cost" that gets incurred when a skill gets readjusted.

So in your model, when Protective Bond got rebalanced because of all the 55 monks, Anet should have wiped everyones PvE accounts?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayea

best way to deal with skills getting out of control in arenas ect is simply to add a script..TO THE ARENA AREA ONLY.
a script that says....X skill with have Y affect when in this area...otherwise it will have Z affect.

Right... cause its that simple, all the developers need to do is to add in a line of code. If you never created anything more complex than hello world, you know that changing code siginifcantly always has unintended effects.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayea

simple....neat and has no need to affect the pve area of the game.

and for players of pve that wish to pvp, but are tired of getting called every name known to noobdome....
a pve arena that wont let ou play with a pvp-only char...yeah, i know, it sounds crooked, but it meand that if you play both, you can use the pve char to teach pvp skills in a less threatening envioronment.
(and just to balance things up a little, a pvp-only arena where pve toons are not alowed, so hardcore pvp can play in peace without the noobish antics of the un-educated pve'er)

Why seperate? this won't allow people to improve, seperating people into different areas will, if anything, cause a larger dichotomy in skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonter

Heres what I think would be the best solution.
Along with faction and new premades we add guild templates.

Through some sort of system that im not going to dream up right now, your guild can unlock skills for the whole group.
So after you install GWs on your grandmas computer and invite her to play in your guild she simply selects a template your guild has created and she fits in with the team build instantly.

This would be a powerful tool, so I would limit it to GvG.
And then also, it should be earned through.....Grenth faction or something that takes team effort.

This is a pretty good idea, although its been suggested before, I'm not sure if Anet made any response to it.

Rayea · Jan 08, 2006, 07:35 PM // 19:35

oh yes, of course anything that is done to a skill for pvp benefit is *always* to balance it...

get real. Pve people screamed blue murder when a lot of skills were *balanced* because they were being used in strange or unapealing ways in pvp, but no one cared if they were pvp only players.

and i sugested pve-only arena to help ease new players into the pvp consept. i sugested it so that they could be taught how to pvp by players who do both pvp and pve...not by being screamed at by pvp-only people that have a tendancy to call anyone that has anything to do with pve a noob or worse.
the pvp-only was to balance out the score.

yes, i accept that scripting is hard. but it can be done. by normal people. who dont get paid to script, even.
how difficult can it be to add a single script that states is the scripting language that, for example 'in this arena, skill *i will avenge you* will do xxx and yyy...' so that when used outside of arenas, it has its original affect, but inside arenas, it has the affect that the pvp comunity feels is more in keeping with their views?

that way, there should be no more bad feelings when a skill is nerfed, ah i mean *ballanced* as per pvp-only players ranted demands.

SirJackassIII · Jan 08, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Its slow, but not unbearably so. Before the change it was calculated out to years of play to unlock everything. A little of both pve and pvp is the fastest way usually though. The acutal faction gain just keeps continuity of account advancement between the two. The real complaint is the total faction available to be stored currently, not the rate of gain over time.

That inequity is the stored skill points versus faction stored. The total exp conversion or quest skill gain is irrelevent in the discussion. The only important aspect is that you are allowing existing characters into the new chapter content, have low level areas, and allowing them to change their secondaries so they can in fact springboard into the new professsions in essence gaining a truncated game. Devoted players for pvp will do this, as it was common to rush through pve before faction and soak up the skills in a similar manner. The difference is that people can opt to use a stable and built character with others in the same position and rush through it together opposed to re-starting and going through it fresh like a pve only player will do.

Let's see, Chapter 2 hits the shelves. I buy it. Why yes, I so happen to have 250k and 250 skill points lying around to spend on new skills by simply changing my secondary and getting the new skills. -.-"

Like the OP said, if he could store more Faction, he'd have millions. Granted he might have exagerated a bit, he could buy 1000 new skills on the spot. now, you got 10. Deal with it. Like I said before, the time to gain 1000 faction vs 15k xp and 1k gold is way smaller. Only 55HP monks wll probably be able to get all skills on the spot, but guess what, not everyone has a 55HP monk, and not everyone has the patience/desire to farm for hours.

Also, ANet isn't dumb and they'll probably want to limit the plotholes. Suddenly new spirits popping up in the desert? Suddenly they know new skills/professions? My guess is that Ch1 characters can change their new secondaries somewhere in Cantha as well.

Akathrielah · Jan 08, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayea

oh yes, of course anything that is done to a skill for pvp benefit is *always* to balance it...

get real. Pve people screamed blue murder when a lot of skills were *balanced* because they were being used in strange or unapealing ways in pvp, but no one cared if they were pvp only players.

Umm well yes, when spirit spam completely dominated the metagame and excluded a whole lot of otherwise viable strategies, it needed to be rebalanced. And, surprise, surprise, it was never used in PvE.

Old smiting was more effective in damage than the fire line that elementalist had, yet it could spammed frequently, and was powered by a excessively overpowered healing and energy engine. Sorry this had to be changed.

Strange, unappealing is fine, when it completely dominates the metagame, and steamrolls anything that doesn't follow it, then it needs to be changed.
If a particular skill, completely outshines any comparable skill, it needs to be looked at.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayea

and i sugested pve-only arena to help ease new players into the pvp consept. i sugested it so that they could be taught how to pvp by players who do both pvp and pve...not by being screamed at by pvp-only people that have a tendancy to call anyone that has anything to do with pve a noob or worse.
the pvp-only was to balance out the score.

Oddly enough, I've found far more immaturity and intolerance while playing the PvE missons.

I don't understand what you mean by "pvp-only" was to balance out the score.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayea

yes, i accept that scripting is hard. but it can be done. by normal people. who dont get paid to script, even.
how difficult can it be to add a single script that states is the scripting language that, for example 'in this arena, skill *i will avenge you* will do xxx and yyy...' so that when used outside of arenas, it has its original affect, but inside arenas, it has the affect that the pvp comunity feels is more in keeping with their views?

You sound like an overeager first year CS student. I'm sorry but you can't simply implement changes in a program that is several hundred thousand lines of code by a "single script". It doesn't work that way, sorry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayea

that way, there should be no more bad feelings when a skill is nerfed, ah i mean *ballanced* as per pvp-only players ranted demands.

[/QUOTE]

Please learn what these words mean when you actually use them. Please try and learn about the game mechanics while your at it.

Akathrielah · Jan 08, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayea

oh yes, of course anything that is done to a skill for pvp benefit is *always* to balance it...

get real. Pve people screamed blue murder when a lot of skills were *balanced* because they were being used in strange or unapealing ways in pvp, but no one cared if they were pvp only players.

Umm well yes, when spirit spam completely dominated the metagame and excluded a whole lot of otherwise viable strategies, it needed to be rebalanced. And, surprise, surprise, it was never used in PvE.

Old smiting was more effective in damage than the fire line that elementalist had, yet it could spammed frequently, and was powered by a excessively overpowered healing and energy engine. Sorry this had to be changed.

Strange, unappealing is fine, when it completely dominates the metagame, and steamrolls anything that doesn't follow it, then it needs to be changed.
If a particular skill, completely outshines any comparable skill, it needs to be looked at.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayea

and i sugested pve-only arena to help ease new players into the pvp consept. i sugested it so that they could be taught how to pvp by players who do both pvp and pve...not by being screamed at by pvp-only people that have a tendancy to call anyone that has anything to do with pve a noob or worse.
the pvp-only was to balance out the score.

Oddly enough, I've found far more immaturity and intolerance while playing the PvE missons.

I don't understand what you mean by "pvp-only" was to balance out the score.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayea

yes, i accept that scripting is hard. but it can be done. by normal people. who dont get paid to script, even.
how difficult can it be to add a single script that states is the scripting language that, for example 'in this arena, skill *i will avenge you* will do xxx and yyy...' so that when used outside of arenas, it has its original affect, but inside arenas, it has the affect that the pvp comunity feels is more in keeping with their views?

You sound like an overeager first year CS student. I'm sorry but you can't simply implement changes in a program that is several hundred thousand lines of code by a "single script". It doesn't work that way, sorry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayea

that way, there should be no more bad feelings when a skill is nerfed, ah i mean *ballanced* as per pvp-only players ranted demands.

[/QUOTE]

Please learn what these words mean when you actually use them. Please try and learn about the game mechanics while your at it.

reboot · Jan 08, 2006, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pardoz

By playing the game and learning how things work, thus gaining the (player) skills needed to be competitive. In the process of doing so, the player's account would accumulate enough faction to allow the unlocking of more items/runes/skills, giving the player more flexibility.

Hand a complete GW newbie a fully-unlocked account, and you have a player who can now play any build or class uncompetitively. Hand a good, experienced, GW player a fresh account with nothing unlocked, and you have a highly competitive player who's limited to a handful of roles for a few hours or days.

LOL, for the last time playing PvE dosen't prepare you for PvP.

I have friends in the FPS genera who could compete in high level GW PvP with me if they had full unlocks but they hated PvE so much they quit playing.

Will they buy chapter 2? NO not if anet makes them grind, which means less skilled players.

borkbork · Jan 08, 2006, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by reboot

LOL, for the last time playing PvE dosen't prepare you for PvP.

I have friends in the FPS genera who could compete in high level GW PvP with me if they had full unlocks but they hated PvE so much they quit playing.

Will they buy chapter 2? NO not if anet makes them grind, which means less skilled players.

This is the biggest reason PvErs walking into PvP for the very first time get shot down quickly. In PvE, you can get away with the same skillbar and just rely on henchies or your team to slingshot your way to Hell's Precipice. Did you learn anything? No. You've always had the same 8 skills on your bar.

For example, you're a monk in PvE. Your bar might look like: Word of Healing, Orison, Dwayna's Kiss, Healing Touch, Rebirth, Healing Seed, Heal Party, Heal Other. This build has NO hex removal, NO energy management since you've always depended on a battery-necro to fuel you.

Yet so many monks in PvE run this. You walk into Tombs and give the group this skillbar, and few things might happen.

1) Instant kick.
2) Someone tells you why Rebirth is bad in Tombs, and you need energy management skills. They give you a new skillbar to use.
3) You've always ran your healing build in PvE and you've spent 500+ hours playing it. Obviously it works since you've been to hell and back! These 'elitists pvpers are wrong and don't know anything about CREATIVE SKILLBARS in PvE!'
4) Someone asks you again to please change you skillbar, and bring Infuse Health to catch spikes.
5) As a PvEr, who would use Infuse Health? That's 50% of your health gone! You laugh at these 'stupid pvpers' since they're obviously trying to trick you.
6) You get booted eventually and you don't learn anything. You go back to PvE forever and doom yourself to running the same 8 skills.

^ True story. Happened yesterday in tombs when I was trying to explain why energy management skills = good, rebirth = no good on a monk, and why Infuse Health is used.

You don't need to change skillbars at all in PvE. You could probably beat the whole game with the skills given to you in Presearing/Old Ascalon. And that's why folks, PvPers are in a different world than PvErs. PvPers need faster unlocks to experiment with new builds. PvErs don't care since they don't need to change or adapt.

Sagius Truthbarron · Jan 08, 2006, 10:44 PM // 22:44

I'm in a PvP only guild. I'm almost rank 6. I've played for 1,200 hours - 217k faction (still haven't unlocked everything becuase I unlocked only about 10% of my current ingame items from PvE, the other 90% being from Faction)

I say his idea is stupid. I think he sounded like a jerk, and I think he doesn't know what he is talking about. This guy has played too much Star Wars Galaxies PvP (Jedi (t3h Ub3r c00l clazz) beat everything else).

I mean, he actually thinks that assasin, a class from a game that is going to be STAND ALONE from Chapter 1 is going to be more powerful.. Simply becuase its a new game.

Appearently he never saw the list of new skills -for all professions- being added in chapter 2.

Can't we just delete posts that don't make any sence, or, atleast, move this to the Sanitarium where it belongs?

Pardoz · Jan 08, 2006, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by pardoz

By playing the game and learning how things work, thus gaining the (player) skills needed to be competitive. In the process of doing so, the player's account would accumulate enough faction to allow the unlocking of more items/runes/skills, giving the player more flexibility.

Hand a complete GW newbie a fully-unlocked account, and you have a player who can now play any build or class uncompetitively. Hand a good, experienced, GW player a fresh account with nothing unlocked, and you have a highly competitive player who's limited to a handful of roles for a few hours or days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reboot

LOL, for the last time playing PvE dosen't prepare you for PvP.

I requoted my entire original message there. Care to point out precisely where I said playing PvE prepares you for PvP? Or, for all that matter, where I said anything about PvE at all? Didn't think so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reboot

I have friends in the FPS genera who could compete in high level GW PvP with me if they had full unlocks but they hated PvE so much they quit playing.

So some losers with bad attitudes quit the game? Their loss. Why should the rest of us give a redengine other than to offer thanks they're gone?

reboot · Jan 09, 2006, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pardoz

So some losers with bad attitudes quit the game? Their loss. Why should the rest of us give a redengine other than to offer thanks they're gone?

No some skilled players with excellent reflexs and years of competitive gaming dislike PvE, And everyone in high level PvP knows PvP needs more skilled players.

SirJackassIII · Jan 09, 2006, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by reboot

And everyone in high level PvP knows PvP needs more skilled players.

Then may I suggest you stop asking the same question all the time? You know, you try to get into a group, then you get "Rank?" as a response?

Might be off-topic, but this game doesn't need more "skilled" players asking the same question. I've played with some skilled unranked/rank 3 players, and noob Rank 6+ players. The skilled players are there, most people just don't find them.

Alana · Jan 09, 2006, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by reboot

And everyone in high level PvP knows PvP needs more skilled players.

What really stinks about this whole situation is that there are so many PvE players who are done or near done with the game and want to get into PvP right now. So, if "everyone" knows PvP needs more skilled PvP players, why doesn't "everyone" give these folks a chance at it? You know the people I'm talking about; the ones who don't have the oh-so-uber rank that you are searching for. If people took a little time to help out some of these players, I think high-level PvP would really take off.

To those folks who are in this exact situation, the best advice I can offer is to join a good guild. I am a PvP noob, I'll be the first to admit it. But the folks in my guild have been more than patient and very willing to answer questions and (this is key) let me PvP with them! I even made Rank 1!

Anyway, my point is that giving a UAS-version of Guild Wars will in no way help high-level PvP. As many others have pointed out, I believe it will only clog arenas with players who are very confused and in need of guidance. Well guess what! Those folks already exist and almost nobody will help them now. What makes you think putting more of these people into the game will do anything? And with more options (every option!) they will be even more confused.

Okay, stepping off soap box now. Carry on.

glountz · Jan 09, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57

First of all, so much hatred against PvP here is astonishing. I read the whole thread 3 times, and what I found is that pro-PvP were always talking with concise and polite words, whereas Pro-PVE where as aggressive as possible.
I enjoy both PVE and PVP.
I like PVE to explore beautiful virtual landscapes, take my time, read all the quests well and understand the story.
I like PVP for the thrill of adrenalin, the experience it gives.

When I play PVE missions with PUGs, the people there are just horrible. They don't want to admire and understand the mission, take their time I just hear the word "run".

The biggest problem here is not PVErs or PVPers. The problem is grind. Grind for faction, for items, for those 15k armors to brag everywhere. It seems that the PVeers around here only want their "hard farming work" recognized. Briefly, that their grinding would be recognized. But if ever it would be, so it would be the Time spent on the game which would be more central than skill. And I don't want this to happen. If you like that, just go play DAOC or WoW. Grind, and grinding, is bad.
It seems the grinders here don't understand the goal of PVPers who want every skills unlocked.
PvPers just want to have access to every skill to improve their own skill. To win better and more often. They don't care about rank. This is a grinder misconception. Why PVPers would want to hold the Tombs? To get the favor of Gods? They don't care, as they don't care about getting these ectos at all. They don't want to PVE. Again, it is a grinder misconception. They want to get it to prove themselves as the best!
As I said, I enjoy both PVE and PVP. And grinders in PVE calling you noob during missions are -by far- more frustrating than a PVP team calling you noob in an arena. And it is strange because it did NEVER happen to me. The only guys who called me noob in an arena was guys in my own team because we lost, or the opposite team because they lost. I rarely found winning hardcore PVPers team calling the guys they've owned by names.

Having all unlocked Skills for PVP would not bother me, if PVEers were able to have it too. I think that in fact it should have been implemented at the beginning.

And, at last:

Quote:

Originally Posted by borkbork

This is the biggest reason PvErs walking into PvP for the very first time get shot down quickly. In PvE, you can get away with the same skillbar and just rely on henchies or your team to slingshot your way to Hell's Precipice. Did you learn anything? No. You've always had the same 8 skills on your bar.

For example, you're a monk in PvE. Your bar might look like: Word of Healing, Orison, Dwayna's Kiss, Healing Touch, Rebirth, Healing Seed, Heal Party, Heal Other. This build has NO hex removal, NO energy management since you've always depended on a battery-necro to fuel you.

Yet so many monks in PvE run this. You walk into Tombs and give the group this skillbar, and few things might happen.

1) Instant kick.
2) Someone tells you why Rebirth is bad in Tombs, and you need energy management skills. They give you a new skillbar to use.
3) You've always ran your healing build in PvE and you've spent 500+ hours playing it. Obviously it works since you've been to hell and back! These 'elitists pvpers are wrong and don't know anything about CREATIVE SKILLBARS in PvE!'
4) Someone asks you again to please change you skillbar, and bring Infuse Health to catch spikes.
5) As a PvEr, who would use Infuse Health? That's 50% of your health gone! You laugh at these 'stupid pvpers' since they're obviously trying to trick you.
6) You get booted eventually and you don't learn anything. You go back to PvE forever and doom yourself to running the same 8 skills.
.

Quoted for truth. So truly true.

Pardoz · Jan 09, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

First of all, so much hatred against PvP here is astonishing. I read the whole thread 3 times, and what I found is that pro-PvP were always talking with concise and polite words, whereas Pro-PVE where as aggressive as possible.

You forgot the [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags in your message.

Quote:

I enjoy both PVE and PVP.

Me too.

Quote:

When I play PVE missions with PUGs, the people there are just horrible.

Playing with PUGs is always a crapshoot. Some of my best GW experiences have been with PUGs, and all of my worst have. PvE or PvP makes no difference - PUGs is PUGs, to paraphrase Butler.

Quote:

The biggest problem here is not PVErs or PVPers. The problem is grind.

There's those missing [sarcasm] tags again. GW is pretty much completely grind-free, at least in terms of game-mandated grind. Do lots of people grind? Sure. Why? Beats me, but presumably they get some kind of enjoyment out of it. Is it necessary? Not in the slightest.

Quote:

It seems the grinders here don't understand the goal of PVPers who want every skills unlocked.

Sure. To the extent that having a fully unlocked character gives a competitive advantage, there is a small but vocal community of people demanding they be handed that advantage on a plate, so they then have an unfair advantage over everybody else. Doubtless they fear they won't be able to compete on an even plane against PvEers making their first ventures into PvP with their PvE characters otherwise.

Quote:

PvPers just want to have access to every skill to improve their own skill. To win better and more often. They don't care about rank. This is a grinder misconception.

The scene: The Tomb of Primeval Kings. A new player enters for the first time and tries to get into a group:

"What's your rank?"
"0, but I'm eager and willing to learn"
"RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO off, you miserable n00b piece of RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO."

Repeat for three or four hours, only with less polite language.

Can't imagine how anybody could possibly end up with the gross misperception that people care about rank from that scene, which is repeated daily.

reboot · Jan 09, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pardoz

To the extent that having a fully unlocked character gives a competitive advantage, there is a small but vocal community of people demanding they be handed that advantage on a plate, so they then have an unfair advantage over everybody else. Doubtless they fear they won't be able to compete on an even plane against PvEers making their first ventures into PvP with their PvE characters otherwise.

LOL, I had to quote this cause its so funny.

It seems no PvP thread is complete with out the irrational, uninformed, rage filled rantings of a disgruntled PvE player. It makes me wonder why some of you think we should bother helping PvE players at all, when you act like this.

Manfred · Jan 09, 2006, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Insulting people for insults is bogging down this thread. It's a viscous cycle. *ka-rimshot*

Anywho, I play both pve and pvp, and they are like my childrens. I loves them all. They support each other, with the self-imposed "grinding" providing more fun for me, as well as new pvp opportunities.

Wait, I have an idea! The whole game is grinding, why don't we just flash "YOU WIN" on the screen for five minutes. Enter tombs: "YOU WIN!" with none of that useless grinding of finding a group, just instant victory. DOesn't that sound fun?