Curse

Steamed · Jan 08, 2006, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellix Cantero

Eh, you still have your condition/hex monitor in the upper left hand corner?

This is one example of what a pve/noob player does not do that a pvper does. Arrange thier HUD so that they can see everything important. Hexes like empathy/spiteful spirit/backfire are rarely used in pve so many people do not realize why there getting owned in pvp.

Kakumei · Jan 08, 2006, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steamed

This is one example of what a pve/noob player does not do that a pvper does. Arrange thier HUD so that they can see everything important. Hexes like empathy/spiteful spirit/backfire are rarely used in pve so many people do not realize why there getting owned in pvp.

You can see everything important with the default interface. In fact, if I tried to move things around now, I would be confused for quite some time, looking to see things where they aren't now.

tomcruisejr · Jan 08, 2006, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steamed

Hexes like empathy/spiteful spirit/backfire are rarely used in pve so many people do not realize why there getting owned in pvp.

they are used by monsters in pve all the time. if only you went through all the content and didnt look for a runner to desert, droknar, whatever places, youll know that fact.

twicky_kid · Jan 08, 2006, 02:30 AM // 02:30

One question I have been pondering about chapter 2 is what about the lvl 20 chapter 1 characters that are going to move over to chapter 2?

Each chapter is going to be made where you can pick it up without having to play chapter 1. That only leaves 1 answer. Assassin will start at lvl 20 to be able to compete with chapter 1 characters. If there is no lvl gain for the chapter 2 profession that leaves pve quest the only option for skill unlocks.

Since the cap is at 20 you will be fighting the same lvl monsters as we are right now. Expect to see 22+ monsters regularly. In a full party that is going to be a slow lvl gain with no option to solo for exp. Don't expect them to make the same mistake twice on soloing. Then again Magic's R&D let some things slip through the cracks that completely altered the game forever after a year+ of testing.

I'm sure there will be premades for the new proffesions for pvp just like there are now. So stop your complaining.

All this focus on the assassin with the 2nd profession has not even been reveiled. It could be a marketing strategy since more people can identify with the assassin class from other games but I don't know.

Guess we all just have to wait and see what happens.

Gaile Gray · Jan 08, 2006, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

A PvE character who can compete in PvP takes weeks to develop - maybe months if you take some runes or weapons into account that are quite expensive to get for a PvE character while they can be unlocked for PvP characters with a tiny amount of faction that takes like 20 minutes to get. Why should a UAS version of GW give you all that for free in the very the instant you start into the game?

Frankly I don't care if Anet ever does a UAS version. But IF they do, I really want you to play on other servers than me, because I (doing PvP with PvE toons) don't really want to fight you on uneven terms. Requiring me to work for my character while you don't have to seems to be quite uneven to me...

Oh, by the way - UAS is really a dead horse...

Good points here. I understand that there are some (many?) who would like the insta-build and the immediate character. I don't know too many games that give it to them, but oh, well, that's ok, it's something that these players want.

However, if someone gets where he has gotten through sweat and tears, it seems to demean his effort and undermine his achievements to have someone else bounce in, Day 1, with all skills, all runes, a fuller character then the person who "grew it" over months. It seems uneven and unfun. (At least for one side of the equation.)

I just can't see us creating such an inequity, ever. It feels like backstabbing. "Sure you can work and nurture and make the hard choices, but you're going to face a new player who has more and better, because he bought some truncated version of the game." The only way it might work is with a separate server. And I don't see us ever splitting our community like that. By the way, be aware that these are not official positions or statements of the future, these are simply one gamer's opinions, and one player's concerns.

I do not dismiss your request. I will not dismiss your opinions. But I simply cannot see the wisdom in fulfilling it, nor the fairness, nor the service to the longevity of Guild Wars. It will remain for the Design Team to determine the possibilities, and we'll let you know if there are changes coming.

Akathrielah · Jan 08, 2006, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Good points here. I understand that there are some (many?) who would like the insta-build and the immediate character. I don't know too many games that give it to them, but oh, well, that's ok, it's something that these players want.

More like the ability to play in a level and competitive environment where skill factors greatly into victory rather than time spent. Its quite rewarding to know your team won because of superior tactics, build and general strategy, not because your guild was allowed to experiment with more builds because your guild unlocked everything first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

However, if someone gets where he has gotten through sweat and tears, it seems to demean his effort and undermine his achievements to have someone else bounce in, Day 1, with all skills, all runes, a fuller character then the person who "grew it" over months. It seems uneven and unfun. (At least for one side of the equation.)

Nonsense, this is PvP where skills, runes, and a full character are tools, not the goal sought after.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I just can't see us creating such an inequity, ever. It feels like backstabbing. "Sure you can work and nurture and make the hard choices, but you're going to face a new player who has more and better, because he bought some truncated version of the game." The only way it might work is with a separate server. And I don't see us ever splitting our community like that. By the way, be aware that these are not official positions or statements of the future, these are simply one gamer's opinions, and one player's concerns.

This newer player will not have a grasp on even the basics of this game, and besides PvP characters would not be allowed into PvE areas, making that argument moot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I do not dismiss your request. I will not dismiss your opinions. But I simply cannot see the wisdom in fulfilling it, nor the fairness, nor the service to the longevity of Guild Wars. It will remain for the Design Team to determine the possibilities, and we'll let you know if there are changes coming.

And as a result, you have a ladder with guilds that haven't played in a few months holding at rank 20 and rank 23. Another good number of guilds sitting at the top 50 are merely smurf guilds. PvPers wanted to play in a game where you didn't need to grind endlessly in order to become competitive. The ginormous amount of time needed to grind to become competitive turned off many many good potential and current pvpers, and as a result you have a very small competitive community. It should have been several hundred guilds competiting for the top spots to get into the regionals, instead it was more or less the same "good 'ole boys" merely competiting for who got into what slot.

twicky_kid · Jan 08, 2006, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akathrielah

And as a result, you have a ladder with guilds that haven't played in a few months holding at rank 20 and rank 23. Another good number of guilds sitting at the top 50 are merely smurf guilds. PvPers wanted to play in a game where you didn't need to grind endlessly in order to become competitive. The ginormous amount of time needed to grind to become competitive turned off many many good potential and current pvpers, and as a result you have a very small competitive community. It should have been several hundred guilds competiting for the top spots to get into the regionals, instead it was more or less the same "good 'ole boys" merely competiting for who got into what slot.

You only need 8 skills to fill up your bar. Having every skill does not give you some kind of edge and never will. Out of 400+ skills you can still only use 8. The main problem is people waste their time getting skills they will most likely never use.

To fill up your bar you need 10k faction. You can get 3x that much in 1 day easy. So each day I can unlock 3 skill bars worth of skills. That is plenty to be competitive for doing something you would have done anyways. I've never had to farm for faction. Just play pvp as normal and it will come. Don't see where you get the grind factor from.

So its the top 20 guilds fault no one would oppose them? Is it Anet's fault the top 50 guilds are smurfs? That is all player controlled. Anet set the arena not their fault people are not showing up. They gave us the tools to work with its up to you to organize a group and get in there.

Akathrielah · Jan 08, 2006, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

You only need 8 skills to fill up your bar. Having every skill does not give you some kind of edge and never will. Out of 400+ skills you can still only use 8. The main problem is people waste their time getting skills they will most likely never use.

Really and how do you determine which skills you will never use? Especially if you play multiple classes.

When chapter 2 is released, and a few hundred more skills are introduced, with a (hopefully) fresh metagame, will you be able to determine which skills to take?

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

To fill up your bar you need 10k faction. You can get 3x that much in 1 day easy. So each day I can unlock 3 skill bars worth of skills. That is plenty to be competitive for doing something you would have done anyways. I've never had to farm for faction. Just play pvp as normal and it will come. Don't see where you get the grind factor from.

So if my guild wants to try a new build and I don't have the skills required, I'm going to have to spend a day grinding to get the necessary skills? Better yet, if there is adjustments needed to be made and new classes/skills swaped in, how much longer?

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

So its the top 20 guilds fault no one would oppose them? Is it Anet's fault the top 50 guilds are smurfs? That is all player controlled. Anet set the arena not their fault people are not showing up. They gave us the tools to work with its up to you to organize a group and get in there.

They gave the promise of skill over time spent, attracting many prospective players interested in a PvP game where you didn't need to spend several hundred hours grinding in order to become competitive. After the release and it was made apparent that you would have to grind for several hundred hours to become competitive, many guilds simply up and left. Then they released faction which was an utter joke. And after a while they increased it, after it was apparent that grinding with faction would take longer than grinding through the PvE game. At this current rate it still will take a new player around 600 hours to unlock everything. So after much attrition, you have the ladder where it is now, where "competitive" isn't the top 2000 or even 200 its the top 20.

tomcruisejr · Jan 08, 2006, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akathrielah

PvPers wanted to play in a game where you didn't need to grind endlessly in order to become competitive.

funny.

i will also say that if GW has no instant "Make PVP only character option" but only "Make competitive RP character that will take me 1 year to reach the level cap (say level 300) and grind 1 year more to get top of the line items (godly items that will give me unfair advantage) and go to the PVP arena/ GvG / Tombs, whack noobs with my level and items"

but no. GuildWars has this insta PVP character toon creation system with levels capped, same generic items, same skill set. unlocking skills just need factions (which you can get by PVPing). there is no grind needed. play along and all the skills you basically need will come.

of course, old players are priviledged to unlock things early. that cannot be changed.

as others have said, you dont need 400 skills in your skill bar.

Akathrielah · Jan 08, 2006, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

funny.

i will also say that if GW has no instant "Make PVP only character option" but only "Make competative RP character that will take me 1 year to reach the level cap (say level 300) and grind 1 year more to get top of the line items (godly items that will give me unfair advantage) and go to the PVP arena/ GvG / Tombs, whack noobs with my level and items"

but no. GuildWars has this insta PVP character toon creation system with levels capped, same generic items, same skill set. unlocking skills just need factions (which you can get by PVPing). there is no grind needed. play along and all the skills you basically need will come.

of course, old players are priviledged to unlock things early. that cannot be changed.

as others have said, you dont need 400 skills in your skill bar.

So how many do you need? 200, 100? or the 8 given to you via premades?

If an absolutely newbie wanted to start this game, how would he become competitive?

Or if you wanted to introduce a friend? or someone from your cross game guild?

"Too bad, grind more newbie"?

Phades · Jan 08, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirJackassIII

Then you got Faction, but you all thought it was too low, so after the PvP weekend, Faction got doubled all the time and it's still too low?

Its slow, but not unbearably so. Before the change it was calculated out to years of play to unlock everything. A little of both pve and pvp is the fastest way usually though. The acutal faction gain just keeps continuity of account advancement between the two. The real complaint is the total faction available to be stored currently, not the rate of gain over time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shut Your Mouth

I believe that there are already too many unskilled PvPers out there. Due to the mindless fame/faction farming of IWAY. Having all the skills unlocked does nothing for you if you have no clue how to use them effectively. ... If you need help finding out what is meant by IWAY, R Spike, Tainted, Orders, Rezzmer, and so on join a guild and ask them to explain the different build's to you. Plz don't jump into a group and say you already know. For this usually angers players and they bail as soon as returned to the mindless mass of IWAYers. Sorry if I overstated the fact of IWAY not requiring a mind.

Dont play in pugs? If you dont, then playing against clueless people will be no skin off your nose. Also, if people don't have the skills at their disposal, then they can NEVER learn how to use them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

3) skill over time spent? you dont need to unlock all possible skills to win. a class only uses 8 skills in skill bar. unlock 8 or 10 and show YOUR SKILL by using 8 of those effectively in a battle.

Diversity is the spice of life, or are you trying to say that the game balance is so bad that every class only has 8 usable skills in the bar. Unlocking has more than just skills under its belt as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I just can't see us creating such an inequity, ever. It feels like backstabbing. "Sure you can work and nurture and make the hard choices, but you're going to face a new player who has more and better, because he bought some truncated version of the game." The only way it might work is with a separate server. And I don't see us ever splitting our community like that. By the way, be aware that these are not official positions or statements of the future, these are simply one gamer's opinions, and one player's concerns.

Splitting up the player base isnt a good idea. However there is a current inequity between pve and pvp characters that may or may not have spent the same time or as you put it, "grew it over months". That inequity is the stored skill points versus faction stored. The total exp conversion or quest skill gain is irrelevent in the discussion. The only important aspect is that you are allowing existing characters into the new chapter content, have low level areas, and allowing them to change their secondaries so they can in fact springboard into the new professsions in essence gaining a truncated game. Devoted players for pvp will do this, as it was common to rush through pve before faction and soak up the skills in a similar manner. The difference is that people can opt to use a stable and built character with others in the same position and rush through it together opposed to re-starting and going through it fresh like a pve only player will do.

they are used by monsters in pve all the time. if only you went through all the content and didnt look for a runner to desert, droknar, whatever places, youll know that fact.[/QUOTE]
A very small percentage of the game uses these skills. Unless you are permenantly stuck in the desert/jungle and only fighting mesmers or only fighting against the named creatures type with spiteful spirit will you face this "all the time". Your comment is a gross misrepresentation of the pve game and it does not refelect upon how much it actually applies to the skill use in pvp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akathrielah

"Too bad, grind more newbie"?

No, just more of the same rush through pve content or ignore it entirely by the existing player base. Take new guy, run them through the pve to get the skill set for a simple build and tell them how to use it. Eventually they will learn it and do the same thing for other build types. It doesnt add anything really to the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

person can just use the Fi boon healer template or some other template, go to arena and win a few battles, unlock a few skill to replace the skill set, play it again and again and be a competative monk or some other class. if he has no idea of what skill to unlock, he just can go to the nearest fansite and look for gw skill data base and read descriptions.

Actually it would be faster and easier to just hench the pve to get the same desired unlocks, excluding rune and item drops, than it is grouping up with random people when you have no idea what you are doing like you are implying. Even the FI-boon will get crushed by simple pvp builds with experienced people behind them. The problem is you are trying to equate a pve to pvp playing parity that does not exist. Granted the person will learn, but their change over time will be null with their account unless they get lucky and get grouped with other people with effective builds and not fight against someone designed to counter them. This is not always the case in random arenas.

tomcruisejr · Jan 08, 2006, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akathrielah

So how many do you need? 200, 100? or the 8 given to you via premades?

If an absolutely newbie wanted to start this game, how would he become competitive?

Or if you wanted to introduce a friend? or someone from your cross game guild?

"Too bad, grind more newbie"?

it needs time for a person to be skilled. a new player just bought the box and installed it for the first time and have the skills all unlocked already is no different from a new player who bought the box and installed it for the first time and given a set of starter skills. they are both new players.

person can just use the Fi boon healer template or some other template, go to arena and win a few battles, unlock a few skill to replace the skill set, play it again and again and be a competitive monk or some other class. if he has no idea of what skill to unlock, he just can go to the nearest fansite and look for gw skill data base and read descriptions.

it's a grind if 1 unlock will cost me weeks, or months.

skill over time spent still holds coz compared to other games, guildwars gives me less (almost nil) grind (not to continually pvp to reach some level or farm to get my pwnage items) just to be competitive in PvP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Diversity is the spice of life, or are you trying to say that the game balance is so bad that every class only has 8 usable skills in the bar. Unlocking has more than just skills under its belt as well.

its good to have all skills unlocked. hands down. but not required.
good pvp/gvg monks only use approx 15-16 skills among the 400+.

8 skills on a bar is perfectly fine as is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

A very small percentage of the game uses these skills. Unless you are permenantly stuck in the desert/jungle and only fighting mesmers or only fighting against the named creatures type with spiteful spirit will you face this "all the time". Your comment is a gross misrepresentation of the pve game and it does not refelect upon how much it actually applies to the skill use in pvp.

i just replied to someone who assumes that a couple of hexes he mentioned are rarely used in pve and pve people are getting pwned in pvp coz they (possibly) never encountered those skills. a pver who loves to kill mobs whice use those hexes will surely know what the hexes do to them.

cheers

VGJustice · Jan 08, 2006, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

can't we all just get along...?

No, of course not, you crazy?

DeathDealer · Jan 08, 2006, 06:24 AM // 06:24

I want nothing more than to play PvP of any type whether it be TA, CA, GvG, or tombs. The problem I have (and I KNOW I am not the only one with this problem) is that I do not have the time or patience to deal with 80% of the PvP'ers calling me names and putting me down for my lack of PvP experience. I try PvP once a day usually and within 1 minute of the start I am getting spammed with immature, harsh, and totally unneccesary comments. I am by no means a bad player, just inexperienced and looking for a little help/experience. When I first started playing this game back in June, people were very generous, courteous, and helpful. What happened? The reason PvP and PvE have this giant barrier now is because of bad attitudes towards each other (obviously) and unwillingness to help each other out. I know I'm going to get some post quoting this one saying " You haven't tried looking for help enough" or something along those lines, but I have and to no avail...I promise if you PvP'ers go to tombs or anything and dont mention rank/fame and say "lfg" acting like you are fairly inexperienced, you will get called every name in the book. PvP players (most) are so up on themselves it's frightening. It leaves a vast majority of people that want to get into PvP suck between a rock and a hard place. I have decided there is two ways to get into PvP:
1.) Deal with harsh degrading comments for quite some time dealing with
r3,6,9 players that are "gods" in thier book and everyone else..well.. absolutely sucks.

2.) Get on ebay or the equivelent and buy a ranked account.

These are not serious ideas, but this is how most PvE'ers that want to get into PvP feel. I gaurentee it. I am growing tired of killing computer controlled enemies and want to fight other people in PvP battles but the attitudes of the majority of them keep me away.

My 2 cents (probably dollars)

edit: Why is it so hard to find a decent player to aid in showing a few tricks/hints regarding pvp to newer pvp players???

Akathrielah · Jan 08, 2006, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

it needs time for a person to be skilled. a new player just bought the box and installed it for the first time and have the skills all unlocked already is no different from a new player who bought the box and installed it for the first time and given a set of starter skills. they are both new players.

person can just use the Fi boon healer template or some other template, go to arena and win a few battles, unlock a few skill to replace the skill set, play it again and again and be a competative monk or some other class. if he has no idea of what skill to unlock, he just can go to the nearest fansite and look for gw skill data base and read descriptions.

it's a grind if 1 unlock will cost me weeks, or months.

skill over time spent still holds coz compared to other games, guildwars gives me less (almost nil) grind (not to continually pvp to reach some level or farm to get my pwnage items) just to be competative in PvP.

its good to have all skills unlocked. hands down. but not required if you want to be competative.

good pvp/gvg monks only use approx 15-16 skills among the 400+.

8 skills on a bar is perfectly fine as is.

i just replied to someone who assumes that a couple of hexes he mentioned are rarely used in pve and pve people are getting pwned in pvp coz they (possibly) never encountered those skills. a pver who loves to kill mobs whice use those hexes will surely know what the hexes do to them.

cheers

Problem is, when the person starts to try and diversify his abilities (start trying other roles, other classes), and especially in a GvG setting he is going to be stuck at a bottleneck.

And personally, I really didnt mind the grind at all, even before the]implementation of faction, Everquest had taught me to be very very very very... very patient. Problem is, we were promised a game that would be easy to get into, where victories would be determined by "skill over time spent", and upon release, Anet didnt deliver, at the high cost of losing much of the pvp community.

Now we are on the verge of an entirely new expansion, with, hopefully, hundreds of new useful skills, is Anet going to expect us to spend another few hundred hours getting everything again?

Akathrielah · Jan 08, 2006, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

can't we all just get along...?

He is trying to be amiable! Lynch the bastard!

Takkun · Jan 08, 2006, 06:53 AM // 06:53

yea a nall unlock isnt going to happen. They don't anyone to have too much special treatment. I mean, isnt at least 2 more professions enough special treatment for you guys?

I can't wait till the new chapter comes out, because ive overplayed this game before it even got to retail! And then it took me about half a month to overplay the content that wasnt in the beta. And then about one week to overplay Sorrows furnace, and about 3 days to overplay xmas and halloween.

Now all I have been doing is borily getting a few character through the current chapter entirely to get them ready for the next one, which I have a feeling will come out before may. I say this because a few companies are already making preorders expecting to be able to give out the game by late march!

Phades · Jan 08, 2006, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

its good to have all skills unlocked. hands down. but not required if you want to be competative.

good pvp/gvg monks only use approx 15-16 skills among the 400+.

8 skills on a bar is perfectly fine as is.

All skills, prolly not, but unless you want to be predicable having most of them is a good idea. Being able to adapt through metagame changes with other skills is the whole point of having the skills collected. Considering what you are advocating, i would assume you stopped getting new skills after you got 12 or so.

....Ahem
Anyway, you didnt so i really dont understand what you are getting at here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

i just replied to someone who assumes that a couple of hexes he mentioned are rarely used in pve and pve people are getting pwned in pvp coz they (possibly) never encountered those skills. a pver who loves to kill mobs whice use those hexes will surely know what the hexes do to them.

Different strokes for different folks? Umm a mesmer who uses backfire and empathy means squat to someone wanting to use a warrior or a monk. The use and application of the skills in terms of timing is just as important as moving the mouse icon over the status bar when you notice -138(backfire) the first time.

Pardoz · Jan 08, 2006, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akathrielah

If an absolutely newbie wanted to start this game, how would he become competitive?

By playing the game and learning how things work, thus gaining the (player) skills needed to be competitive. In the process of doing so, the player's account would accumulate enough faction to allow the unlocking of more items/runes/skills, giving the player more flexibility.

Hand a complete GW newbie a fully-unlocked account, and you have a player who can now play any build or class uncompetitively. Hand a good, experienced, GW player a fresh account with nothing unlocked, and you have a highly competitive player who's limited to a handful of roles for a few hours or days.

tomcruisejr · Jan 08, 2006, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

All skills, prolly not, but unless you want to be predicable having most of them is a good idea. Being able to adapt through metagame changes with other skills is the whole point of having the skills collected. Considering what you are advocating, i would assume you stopped getting new skills after you got 12 or so.

....Ahem
Anyway, you didnt so i really dont understand what you are getting at here.

a player gotta start from 1 class. mastering all is nice. but its a team play game. one has gotta assume a role or 2 and master a given role. and for sure out of the 400+ skills available, that player will just use a fraction of those.

what makes someone competitive and worthy to be partied is being able to do a few roles (ie monking etc) well.

unlocking all skills isn't necesarilly required for one to be in the competitive field, imho. everything still boils down to player skill (how he can use those 8 skills to contribute to a groups success).

adapting to everchanging metagame? almost all guilds use the same worn out skills (but effective) in GvG. only difference is a couple of skills, group dynamics and execution. evidence? observer mode.

fact: a GvG group can only bring 64 unique skills (in reality they are only using less than 64 skills out of 400+). serious GvG guilds can always be seen with a particular build setup.

what if my favorite skill got nerfed by the nerf stick? since i've been playing with my skill set for lotsa times now, its easy for me to go to an npc and unlock another skill which will bring me back to my pvp form, rehearse etc coz ive got lots of spare factions from pvping using what i got and mastered.

just opinions.

Quote:

The use and application of the skills in terms of timing is just as important as moving the mouse icon over the status bar when you notice -138(backfire) the first time.

agreed.

i was just commenting on this one

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steamed

Hexes like empathy/spiteful spirit/backfire are rarely used in pve so many people do not realize why there getting owned in pvp.

no need to be harsh :P