Curse

reboot · Jan 07, 2006, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Once I got her attention ( away form 100 PvE players Asking about the level cap and armor )Gaile was happy to talk about PvP. Excuse the spelling errors I was drunk. I didn't Get Screen Shots But when I asked about nerfing IWAY because Tombs is really boring now, Gaile said it will be ballanced.

We all think the new classes will be over powered, in my guild, but Gaile says no. And ... um cause she said to, here is the 100th request on a forum for a PvP only edition of Guildwars with full unlocks, because I alot of good players with Skill left guildwars when they realised it takes 1000 hours of time spent, to be competitive in GvG.

darkMishkin · Jan 07, 2006, 01:59 PM // 13:59

When they are released ofcourse the new professions will appear overpowered. All the popular uprisings that ANet has had to quash over the past year will appear again. The equivalents E/Mo smiting, spirit spam, IWAY will all pop up again as PvPers abuse the new skills they are given. This is a neccessary part of every GW sequel ANet plan to release, and we just have to hope they keep on nerfing as strong as ever.

mishkin

reboot · Jan 07, 2006, 02:02 PM // 14:02

1) no full unlock edition is planned, even though we asked for it all year long.

2) IWAY Will be "ballanced" so tombs will be fun to play again, and not 95% IWAY.

3) Anets focused on keeping Ballance in Chapter 2, at least they say so, I hope it dosen't turn into another "skill over time Spent" promise though.

darkMishkin · Jan 07, 2006, 02:07 PM // 14:07

1) ANet will never release such a pointless unlocked edition of GW. Ever. You want unlocks? Buy an account off EBay, and prepare to be banned.

2) Erm, good?

3) Why would they not try and mantain a balance? To sell more copies of chapter 2? I suppose they could do that, but it would induce a lot of people to leave before chapter 3 though.

reboot · Jan 07, 2006, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkMishkin

1) ANet will never release such a pointless unlocked edition of GW. Ever. You want unlocks? Buy an account off EBay, and prepare to be banned.

Its not pointless, if you don't care about a PvE Grind. You need some unlocks to be competitive regardless of skill.
Skill over time Spent is anets idea not mine, but Unlocking takes time. Skill is a matter of reflex, coordination, and reaction time. Offering a PvP only edition would let People who play PvP enjoy what they like, with out spending hundreds of hours unlocking. If eveyone has the same skills and equipment ingame then PvP players are on a level playing field and the most skilled player wins. You also Increase the PvP community size by selling the game to players who would not buy Guildwars because they hate PvE.

darkMishkin · Jan 07, 2006, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by reboot

1) We don't like PvE, at least not enough to say that we would put aside PvP for PvE if given the choice.

By saying you don't like PvE, you are 'dissing' half of ANet's work, and you surprisingly won't get rewarded for this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reboot

2) The current System still forces us to PvE, when we would rather just PvP.

The current system allows you to play no PvE whatsoever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reboot

3) Faction rates are still to low, and faction is capped so people with several hundered hours of PvP game play and full unlocks dont earn anymore faction, but PvE players who farm UW and FoW can stack up on Skill points with no
cap.

Did you play GW before there was faction? No, because if you had done you would be happy for what you have. Faction is enough, and the reason it is capped is clear now that Chapter2 is on the horizon.

mish

SirJackassIII · Jan 07, 2006, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Note: I play mostly PvE but I've played quite a it of PvP as well.

In the beginning, you HAD to play PvE, there was no Faction.

Then you got Faction, but you all thought it was too low, so after the PvP weekend, Faction got doubled all the time and it's still too low?

With the limited PvP I played, it was enough to unlock all runes (minor, major and superior, with very few minors already unlocked), weapon upgrades and several skills I missed, and it's still too low? Go play Tombs, you'll get faction in no time. CA/TA faction is crap.

IWAY nerf, hm... I'm interested in seeing them nerf the skill without making it as useless as a PvE ranger without a pet bringing Charm animal on missions...

reboot · Jan 07, 2006, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

3. If you have everything unlocked, why are you complaining about not getting any more faction? I don't understand your point here.

When chapter 2 comes out, I will have only 10,000 faction to spend on unlocks because of the cap, when I have "earned" closer to 1,000,0000 Faction in PvP awards, but PvE players can accumulate as many skill points as they need to use for unlocks.

I do PvE so I have some stored up skill points to unlock with , but why should I be forced to play PvE when I would rather play PvP, mostly because PvE is to easy.

So yeah the Current system does force me to PvE when the next chapeter comes out, if I want unlocks ASAP.

Edit - PvP for me is all guild vs guild, arenas dosent count imo. Ballance dosen't mean nerf

SirJackassIII · Jan 07, 2006, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Or, you know, look it from the other way around. Why do PvE players have to play a bit of PvP to get good weapons first so they don't have to spent 100k+ on a weapon?

Getting 2000 factions vs getting 100k, which one takes longer?

Or unlocking 1 skill for 1000 faction vs unlocking a skill for 1k + 15k xp?

darkMishkin · Jan 07, 2006, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by reboot

but PvE players can accumulate as many skill points as they need to use for unlocks.

Ok this is where your argument can just stop. Are you assuming that a PvE character, the day Chapter2 comes out, can do the Assasin's Path and change secondary in the desert, warp to Emberlight Camp and buy every assasin skill? This is a silly assumption, and I really hope you haven't been boring yourself in PvE just to scrape together some useless skillpoints.

IMO: You will have to play the NEW PvE to unlock the NEW skills, and maybe even compete in NEW PvP to unlock NEW skills.

reboot · Jan 07, 2006, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirJackassIII

Or, you know, look it from the other way around. Why do PvE players have to play a bit of PvP to get good weapons first so they don't have to spent 100k+ on a weapon?

Getting 2000 factions vs getting 100k, which one takes longer?

Or unlocking 1 skill for 1000 faction vs unlocking a skill for 1k + 15k xp?

PvE weapons in drocknars forge and many collectors are 5k or less and just as good as PvP.

PvE players will play PvE by defination so i imagine they like the grind of raising money and aquiring skills... I don't know... We always Ask for Unlocks and PvE player always get mad, saying it will ruin their game, SO Im asking for PvP only Unlocks that wont effect PvE at all.

SirJackassIII · Jan 07, 2006, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by reboot

PvE weapons in drocknars forge and many collectors are 5k or less and just as good as PvP.

PvE players will play PvE by defination so i imagine they like the grind of raising money and aquiring skills... I don't know... We always Ask for Unlocks and PvE player always get mad, saying it will ruin their game, SO Im asking for PvP only Unlocks that wont effect PvE at all.

I was talking about Droknar's Weapons. Getting weapons with looks multiplies that price by 3-4. You unlock a 10/10 Sundering Hilt for 1000 faction, and a +30 pommel of Fortitude for the same. PvE players pay ~50k for either of them. With several farming places nerfed or it takes too long (Griffons), getting Gold isn't that easy.

Also, grinding has become a necesity for PvE players that like to use their PvE characters in PvP. I use them in PvP, and I can say I've spent quite a lot of money to get them "good" weapons. Not perfect, good. Sure, we can enter the debate that PvE characters suck compared to PvP characters in PvP, but that's besides the point here.

Your easy unlocks ruin the game for PvE players by increasing the price in PvE. You get it easy, PvE gets it hard => Price in PvE rises. PvP only unlock that don't affect PvE do not exist, and never will, unless they make it impossible for PvE characters to play PvP, in which case ANet shoots itself in the foot.

crimsonfilms · Jan 07, 2006, 03:37 PM // 15:37

A PvP only version is a popular request in the PvP community. It is a very logical request.

Nobody is dissing ANet. The point is some people just prefers PvP action. The PvE grind is not attractive to them. I have not calculated but you I know you need at least 400,000 faction to unlock everything. Some say it is closer to 600k.

Quote:

The current system allows you to play no PvE whatsoever.

You are missing the point. To unlock all the skills, elites, mods and runes for all 6 classes - you really need to make PvE chars. Why? The faction rate is too low. As I have mentioned before it takes a lot of faction to unlock them.

Quote:

re you assuming that a PvE character, the day Chapter2 comes out, can do the Assasin's Path and change secondary in the desert, warp to Emberlight Camp and buy every assasin skill?

Apples and oranges. PvE is about maps, monsters, gold and items. PvP in GW is stratgey. The gap between casual and hardcore gaming is made more huge when casual players barely have the same tools as hardcore gaming. This was never the philosophy of GW.

I am unsure why PvE community is against this. People should get this grind to earn it mentality out of PvP. They have different goals and methadology thus the requirements are different.

Quote:

lso, grinding has become a necesity for PvE players that like to use their PvE characters in PvP. I use them in PvP, and I can say I've spent quite a lot of money to get them "good" weapons.

No it is not hard to get the PERFECT weapons as PvP players. Collectors have the exact same weapons as PvP chars. PvE players refuse to use them because they dont have the cool factor of rare/gold items.

You dont have to spend a dime to get good weapons for your PvE to play PvP. This is a horrendous misconception.

SirJackassIII · Jan 07, 2006, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonfilms

No it is not hard to get the PERFECT weapons as PvP players. Collectors have the exact same weapons as PvP chars. PvE players refuse to use them because they dont have the cool factor of rare/gold items.

You dont have to spend a dime to get good weapons for your PvE to play PvP. This is a horrendous misconception.

Do you have any idea how long one needs to farm to get only 1 Perfect weapon mod? Do you have any idea how long it takes to get enough money to buy 1 Perfect weapon mod?

Collectors have 15^50 weapons, true (well, they don't have a 15^50 axe...), but they come clean, as in no additional bonusses. Crafters require some cash, not much, but still. Green items are handy and some are cheap, but they don't always have the weapon mods players want.
Getting 1000 faction can be done in less than 1 hour. In 1 hour, Griffon farming nets less than 10k. Knowing that you have an unlimited supply of Perfect mods (so you have a 15^50 Sundering axe of fortitude and a 20 under 50 Sundering axe of Fortitude) vs PvE players getting over 200k trying to get 4 different mods for the same weapons. Over 200 hours vs 2 hours? Unless we get lucky of course...then it's maybe half that time.

Sure, this game is about skill rather than weapons, but a monk with a Insigthfull staff vs a Monk without has an advantage.

Do you think PvE players LIKE farming for hours? Hell no. You wonder why PvE is against that idea? Maybe because you already have it pretty easy compared to PvE players.

Divinus Stella · Jan 07, 2006, 04:53 PM // 16:53

A PvP only version would suck, you would only be able to use the standard PvP weapons, theres clearly better weapons available in PvE and i see a lot of the higher lvl players using them, i think theres something enjoyable about earning the unlocks and getting the weapons, sense of achievement as such.
Its also nice having obsidian armour in PvP, makes you stand out a bit, rather than being stuck with the droks stuff and default weapon skins.

I know a lot of people that don't like PvP, but grind it out just to get an emote in the same way some PvP players hate PvE but grind it just to get unlocks, so how would you feel if in chapter 2 they just gave everyone tigers and capped rank to 9?
I quite like the idea that on day of chap2 release i can take my monk into ember camp and unlock a good 200 skills, ive worked for all those skills points and the cash.

Loviatar · Jan 07, 2006, 05:25 PM // 17:25

considering that there are many pvp people WHINEING about having everything unlocked just shows how fast targeted unlocks are for pvp compared to random drops for pve.

faction is not a reward it is a tool to use to unlock with instead of PVE

no less and no more.

when it is all unlocked it has done its work and is set aside until chapter 2/3.....

they have said the vocal mini minority of UAS/SEPARATE GAME people are not going to get it.

if you consider pvp playing to be grinding maybe you should find a game that has instant gratification and play that instead.

EDIT

Quote:

Divinus Stella

I quite like the idea that on day of chap2 release i can take my monk into ember camp and unlock a good 200 skills, ive worked for all those skills points and the cash.

considering that you will have to be in chapter 2 to purchase chapter 2 skills i dont see this hapening.

there will be those 25 new chapter 1 skills though..........

fallot · Jan 07, 2006, 05:33 PM // 17:33

My own opinion is that with Chapter 2, every skill available in the first chapter should be unlocked for PvP. Faction rewards should be increased and a third alternative for unlocking skills for PvP should be implemented. That should make everyone a little happier.

Loviatar · Jan 07, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallot

My own opinion is that with Chapter 2, every skill available in the first chapter should be unlocked for PvP. Faction rewards should be increased and a third alternative for unlocking skills for PvP should be implemented. That should make everyone a little happier.

they have already tweaked faction to THEIR satisifaction (too high but i wont squalk)

UAS is dead

what 3rd method would you have (be specific)

dargon · Jan 07, 2006, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Lets see, pvp faction vs pve experience/gold

in gvg you can earn around 2k faction / hour, the same in both CA and TA if you have a good team

in pve you can earn around 3k gold and 15k experience / hour if you solo things (such as the grawl in witmans folly).

Each case results in approximately 1 skill being unlocked. PvP however is more fun, IMO, as you're with other people.

For the record, I'm 1 skill away from having everything unlocked for pvp and I currently have around 500 faction on my character. Most of my faction was earned in CA and I had a blast earning it.

antialias02 · Jan 07, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Guild Wars was designed the way it is for a reason. To put out a PvP-only copy of the game with everything unlocked would..

A) Split the PvP and PvE communities even further.
B) Since they are set upon being fair to both PvP and PvE, this would require them to put out a version of GW where you start at level 20.

It's just not going to happen.