Curse

Savio · Jan 12, 2006, 07:55 PM // 19:55

To everyone: if you can't post here without flaming others, then don't post. I don't care if you don't like someone, just keep it off the forums. You have been warned.

holden · Jan 12, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

To everyone: if you can't post here without flaming others, then don't post. I don't care if you don't like someone, just keep it off the forums. You have been warned.

forgive me lord punsihment and savio. i didn't mean to flame and i changed my post to not be quite so sarcastic. but for someone to admit they play pvp with the intention of running away from foes so the player can 'win' is bound to bring out some frustration. I have quit many random arena fights because of rangers doing just such a thing.

its not right to play like that. to admit you do it in such an, imo, arrogant manner, i think he was wanting to be flamed a little.

but lord P bought the game same as I. he can play how he likes.

Lambentviper · Jan 13, 2006, 01:16 AM // 01:16

no, they shouldnt be suspended.

Runners/Griefers are easily stopped. There have been numerous posts already as to how this can be done.

Other than whining about facing them, like many, many people do, we should all learn to learn from these builds. They show you what errors and/or problems your build cannot deal with and shows your own weakness.

Use this as an advantage to better yourself and your build to be able to take down anyone and anything. Dont cry about it.

~*~*What can't kill you will only make you stronger*~*~

lord pun|shment · Jan 13, 2006, 02:04 AM // 02:04

well since this thread has had a major overhaul since lastnight :-

1) my intention was not to appear as a runner
2) ANET has confirmed that they will NEVER ban a runner....even if they run 'all night long'...its a valid gameplay tactic
3) perhaps i shouldve explained myself better, but the time for that has passed

&

4) sorry mods

Lambentviper · Jan 13, 2006, 03:16 AM // 03:16

[QUOTE=glountz]
The problem is that using this technique is very boring and anti-fair play,
[QUOTE]

It is fair.

If you forget to bring some kind of move that slows movement or can strike heavy damage from afar, then thats your problem. Dont blame the runner for forgetting your skills and not being able to catch him.

A.Net has provided countless ways to stop runners.

WTF · Jan 13, 2006, 05:01 AM // 05:01

lol..griefers..rate it.

I admit I have operated as an annoying ranger on occasion and I have also faced many...it sucks having to quit but you cannot expect the ranger to lie down after you just wiped the floor with his/her teammates....why don't you lie down instead?? You're the team who can't stop him/her and it's very easily done.

No one wants to die and how can you tell he/she is just gaining confidence for that big finish. 101mins...love it..so stubborn...it would have been a great match to watch.

glountz · Jan 13, 2006, 10:52 AM // 10:52

[QUOTE=Lambentviper][QUOTE=glountz]
The problem is that using this technique is very boring and anti-fair play,

Quote:

It is fair.

If you forget to bring some kind of move that slows movement or can strike heavy damage from afar, then thats your problem. Dont blame the runner for forgetting your skills and not being able to catch him.

A.Net has provided countless ways to stop runners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

LOL
You haven't faced a good runner. Equipped with hamstring, enfeeble (to cover cripple), Wild Blow (to break stances) Spinal Shivers (skill countering) and even a cover hex for the spinal I chased a guy for over an hour; they can celar conditions nearly instanlly, using holy veil they can slough off a hex fatser than you can cover it (though I piled hexes on a few times) and so on. He was probably bored in the end when I caught him, and it was great to watch my spinal shivers counter everything as he tried to limp away, but it is seriously hard to stop a runner with multiple speed boosts, evasions, condition and hex removal and heals.

Anyone who says "bring a snare" hasn't faced these guys - you need multiple snares, cover coditions and such. Heck, I went into a match and faced 4 (FOUR) runners in TA! All they did was run, and heal one another, and remove the snares and such. I was playing a snaring-anti melee mesmer, which is a good thing, and we won it, but probably only because I could arcane echo crippling anguish and throw imagined burdens out, and our ranger had traps AND crippling shot. It's absurd that a winning streak can be killed off by idiots who build only to run - and that only if you happen to have a team build based around movement control do you have any chance to win against these guys - they can't possibly win.

What we need is a system silimar to the GvG, where after X minutes things change - maybe no speed boosts work, maybe a constant degen as well, who knows. Something that limits how long you have to deal with these jerks. Running to get away, or even to win is legit - my mesmer movement control build can keep 3 guys permanently slowed (well, if things go well), and put a ton of degen on them, and can handily kill warriors while fleeing - that's legit, and a strategy that can win even in a 2:1 or 3:1 situation. Running for the sake of prolonging a game, with no chance of victory? Griefing.

My opinion (with no flame I hope) from last night:
Lord P was facing a 3 monk team and a fire elementalist put randomly together. They didn't choose this configuration. These kind of characters have no skill to prevent a fleer to flee, or I really don't know well GW skills, excepted maybe if one of the monk was a knocking down smiter, and yet it is not the best way to stop someone to run.
He made this battle last ever and ever, using a pleasure killing way of winning.
Should I be ban for saying that, I assume what I said; it's anti-fair play and griefing.
My apologizes to Lord P, maybe it's my paladin's stubborn way of thinking, but I really don't think this a fair way to win.

It is an old philosophical and ethical debate: "Does the goal justify the ways?"
To my opinion, no, to Lord P.'s opinion, yes.

doma · Jan 13, 2006, 11:12 PM // 23:12

I had an experience in CA recently that's along these lines...

I had a pretty bad team (1 of my teammates neglected to bring rez the other brought fire storm or some such) and it eventually came down to 2 rezless wars against me (running boon prot)...

So I practiced my kiting for a bit when one of the wars ragequits with a flurry of sportsmanlike talk....

So, I proferred to the remaining war (and his dead team members) - he clearly did not have the skill to kill me - a friendly "howsabout we rock, paper siccorrs this one?"

The remaining (dead) team members spewed a bunch of filter unfriendly garbage...

Ok.
Fine.

So I kited around for 20 mins until they left.

Sorry, but if your not going to be a basic sport about a clear stalemate, no, I'm not going to just "lay down and die" or "stand and fight". Sorry, I'm not playing an offensive character, my only recourse is to kite and self heal.

Smart use of my time?
Nope.
But, I did get my 2 bits worth of satis'faction'...

And to the original spirit of this post, yeah, folks that roll into CA with the intention of griefing through useless roach/runner builds...meh.

lord pun|shment · Jan 15, 2006, 03:17 AM // 03:17

"with the intention of griefing........."

thats what people need to understand....not ALL rangers go into PvP with the intention of have a 100 minute battle.......i know i didn't.

But when it comes down to the crunch, i bought this game just as everyone else did (who didnt get it for XMAS of their mom & dad

) & if i get "enjoyment" or "fun" out of slowly picking off people for nearly 2 hours........seriously who really cares??...it's MY time.....

ANET doesnt.......they will quite happily watch people cry over this topic for an eternity, even if a ranger was to take nothing BUT runnign skills......they could still be stopped.....people just need to work out how!

..nuff said

IamI · Jan 15, 2006, 03:31 AM // 03:31

My pvp mesmer brings crippling anguish and conjure phantasm. Its quite a good combo. D: Like apply poison and crippling shot. My experience in CA was short to say the least. I always get a team of 12 year olds. I dont have anything against them, but when they take that paladin build and be what a warrior should not be.. -_- I get upset. Quoted from Confucius:

"Ignorance is the night of the mind, but a night without moon and star."
Confucius
Chinese philosopher & reformer (551 BC - 479 BC)

Phades · Jan 15, 2006, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by sun is in us

And for all those that whine about having to bring a snare...watch the World Championship GvG battles....why is every other ranger bringing Crippling Shot?

Because it helps them with independant flag runs, not because people run around for hours not attacking anything.

Basically if a time limit was introduced and used the "score" from life/people alive chart, then it wouldnt matter at all. The team that did the most damage wins, while the runner just gets bumped. Yeah runners can be stopped, but it usually takes a pretty specific skill set that not all profession combinations get. In the same stance though, not every profession combination can deal with enchantment stacks either or 2-3 monk teams that bore people to death.

The point is, even the 4v4 arenas could stand to be improved in function. Putting in some minimal controls to ensure this is not a bad thing. Modifying the way those arenas behave does not affect how the skills perform in other venues and is what should occur. Some of the standing issues brought up would be similar to the time limit match from ember light camp if it required a certain body count to win similar to relic runs in 8v8. Its un-neccary to have and usually the winner is decided long before a large body count or the current timer runs out. It is just as un-neccary to allow the normal maps to continue indefinatly, or allow for combinations of classes to create that situation needlessly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord pun|shment

"with the intention of griefing........."

thats what people need to understand....not ALL rangers go into PvP with the intention of have a 100 minute battle.......i know i didn't.

When someone brings dodge and escape into random arenas, they have the full intent of causing grief. There is no 2 ways about it. It is not limited to just rangers though. Anyone who brings a run speed boost cycle that is not adrenalin based, hence you have to be fighting to use it, can be argued as having a fallback to grief. It only gets really bad when you see this kind of behavior from the pre-made teams and every individual has the full intent to run and not fight, especially since teams from CA can be matched up against them given a 10 win streak.

2_fingers · Jan 15, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Hmmm... 3 pages of text to read when there are skills like muddy terrain, bull charge, bull strike, gale, griffon sweep, any number of DoT hex, burden hexes? Usually, when i play CA, i always bring some form of snare - it makes alot of sense to have some form of snare as everyone who is worth anything will run be it from arrows or a hammer.

I think anet should do other stuff rather than wasting time suspending runners... considering that no one knows what happened to gwen

TheSonofDarwin · Jan 15, 2006, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

When someone brings dodge and escape into random arenas, they have the full intent of causing grief. There is no 2 ways about it.

Umm, not true. Dodge/escape offer some very viable fighting options besides just running around when you are the last one. On my ranger, warriors seem to target me first fairly often. If I'm in the mood for not playing an interrupt rangers (that in itself could be considered just causing grief

), I might bring crippling shot, hunters shot, apply poison, and a running spell. Warrior sprints after me, I cripple him. I hunter's shot him, and run ahead a little bit and apply poison and recripple. Etc etc as most random arena warriors will not change their target, I have kept this one warrior off our monk or other fragile team members where he could do some significant damage and at the same time, I have also solo killed him. May not have been extremely fast, but doing so keeps the warrior from -ever- hitting me and ensures his death. So there are tactical reasons for bringing running skills besides once the team is dead running like a maniac. You may not agree with how I killed him, but it did help my team and noone forced said warrior to not retarget and help his. Any person that has the capability of crippling and doesn't bring it wasn't very prepared as I have no problem dealing with the (intentionally) griefing rangers/warriors who bring 2-3 run skills and just turn the place into a race track

funbun · Jan 15, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valhallan

Greetings everyone,

This is to talk about whether or not "runners" should be considered "griefers". I bring this up because I have had several 30 minute matches tonight due to people like this. I'm not talking about your runner who runs to try to use his res sig or stay alive those last 5 seconds, I'm talking about people who bring skills into competition for the sole purpose of griefing.

Though my personal belief is the Arenanet should suspend anyone caught griefing like this as it takes away from the game, I was wondering what you all thought about this issue. I believe that runners are a disgrace to GW and should not have the priveledge to play if they cannot play the game right.

Comments?

Dude, change your secondary Ele and get Gale or a couple cold skills to kill thier speed.

Instead of complaining, create a build that will pwn them. Cold magic would be great for that.

Crazyvietguy · Jan 15, 2006, 04:07 PM // 16:07

LOL, this thread is basically useless, ANET will not BAN runners because of the fact they run in PvP. Guess who put the running skills in the game, i think.. ANET. I applaud the people who have made builds to stop them, and frown upon people who want a quick answer "OH LETS BAN THEM". I think this comes up in many games. Counterstrike, for example, people get mad if you use the auto sniper. Well if i wanna use it (which i dont) and if i can buy it its usable, so stop bitching and just kill me already. I take the same stance on this, if i felt like being a runner, i wouldnt stop just because you asked me. Just bring some crippling skills, or slowing skills (interrupting works too) and just finish me off. I personally think "hey, its their strategy, let them use it"

neoflame · Jan 15, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Runners punish people for not bringing snares. Should monks be banned because they punish people for not bringing shutdown?

Phades · Jan 15, 2006, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSonofDarwin

Umm, not true. Dodge/escape offer some very viable fighting options besides just running around when you are the last one. On my ranger, warriors seem to target me first fairly often. If I'm in the mood for not playing an interrupt rangers (that in itself could be considered just causing grief

), I might bring crippling shot, hunters shot, apply poison, and a running spell. Warrior sprints after me, I cripple him. I hunter's shot him, and run ahead a little bit and apply poison and recripple.

That is fine, but the difference is when you bring both dodge and escape or another run skill at the same time. One or the other is not an issue, because there is a pause when the run boost is not active.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSonofDarwin

Any person that has the capability of crippling and doesn't bring it wasn't very prepared as I have no problem dealing with the (intentionally) griefing rangers/warriors who bring 2-3 run skills and just turn the place into a race track

There is a difference between kiting and running. I believe you understand the difference through the previous build you listed.

lord pun|shment · Jan 16, 2006, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2_fingers

I think anet should do other stuff rather than wasting time suspending runners... considering that no one knows what happened to gwen

*please note 2 fingers -- the below comment is not directed at you, i quoted you to use as an example. ~LP~

ANET has & never will ban a runner/griefer.....running is a valid tactic..

I suggest all the people with hard heads contact ANET via the support page & ask for yourselves, then perhaps you will leave the poor rangers alone.

once again....nuff said!

Phades · Jan 16, 2006, 10:04 AM // 10:04

yep, because pve has everything to do with this conversation.

Yes, bannings wont happen. That doesnt mean that other change can not occur.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord pun|shment

I suggest all the people with hard heads contact ANET via the support page & ask for yourselves, then perhaps you will leave the poor rangers alone.

once again....nuff said!

There is nothing poor about them, i have no idea what you are refering towards here and considering you said nothing, i find irony in your statement of nuff said.

glountz · Jan 16, 2006, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord pun|shment

"
But when it comes down to the crunch, i bought this game just as everyone else did (who didnt get it for XMAS of their mom & dad

) & if i get "enjoyment" or "fun" out of slowly picking off people for nearly 2 hours........seriously who really cares??...it's MY time.....

Please note here that:
1) Nobody there, except the OP, want to suspend or ban runners. Don't say that people who don't agree with you are claiming for runner's ban, it's incorrect.
2) The problem is not a problem of tactics/build, but a problem of way of winning griefing or not. I suggest people saying simply things like "bring a snare" to play a necro or a monk and to know what kind of "snare" they will bring. And also to play a lot more CA, to know really what they are talking about. Sometimes, a sprint + wild blow + dismember-axe rake isn't enough, as the "runner" START to run far before you reach him.
3) When you say "it's MY time", you reveal yourself as a someone who doesn't care about other's people feelings, exactly what I blame. You are not playing alone, your opponents are human players too, not bots. I hope one day you will fall with the opposite configuration, to understand their feeling.