Curse

lhurgrokoyv · Jan 07, 2006, 05:50 PM // 17:50

I've noticed the massive amount of complaining about getting a group and nerfing skills or classes or builds.

So due to the excessive amount of moaning and groaning from a community of "noobs," (no offense meant there, the fact of a low rank identifies you as that) I would like to propose a solution; from my past experiences on guild wars, I have found that interacting within a community of a vast number of people with different ideas on a daily basis improves your level of gaming. Such as hanging out on the sissy boy vent.

So if somebody were to take the time to make and organize a massive guild which allowed anybody to join, (anybody who jus wants to tomb of course) we would be able to establish a community of possibly hundreds of people who would be able to find tombs groups within the game. All by simply typing "LFG TOMBS" in your guild chat. There would invovle some trial and error in getting good groups, however that's a part of the game, I myself am rank 6 and still get into very horrendous rank6+ groups.

However, this would require a dedicated leader and a number of dedicated officers who would not mind maintaining a ventrillo/teamspeak2 server as well as a public forum. But if somebody can get this idea off the ground, all you unranked players can get a chance to have a community within a community to tomb with at almost any time. And with a free voicecomm available, good coordinated groups can be formed and go into tombs without a problem.

I personally do not have a problem getting a good group, I have a large network of friends and people from top guilds who are almost always ready to PVP or GVG. However, I feel that everybody should be able to enjoy the game as I do and be able to improve in every way possible.

I would like to execute this plan personally, but I may not always have the time as I have a full time job as a high school student, on top of which I have promised a good friend of mine to help him out with his guild. However, if there are some of you out there who would like to help me out with executing this idea, your time and a bit of effort is all I need. (Btw dont worry about having problems with a voice chat server or forums, I can handle it for a period of time)

Maddie · Jan 07, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43

You can say whatever you want. But interacting helps a lot. In the times i was rank <2 I still came in rank 6+ Groups.. When you interact with the people in a good way, they will give you a shot. Just listen to everything they say and you will get in the group more often then. Get to know new people etcetera

JR · Jan 07, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhurgrokoyv

I've noticed the massive amount of complaining about getting a group and nerfing skills or classes or builds.

There are no two ways about it, getting a decent PuG together in guild wars IS very time consuming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhurgrokoyv

So due to the excessive amount of moaning and groaning from a community of "noobs," (no offense meant there, the fact of a low rank identifies you as that)

Assuming people are noobs because they choose not to take part in the biggest PvP joke in this game is slightly arrogant. Tombs is *not* serious PvP. I would say in all honesty that Team Arena is probably more of a challenge and show of skill, due to the diversity of builds you will face there. And thats not even mentioning GvG

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhurgrokoyv

I would like to propose a solution; from my past experiences on guild wars, I have found that interacting within a community of a vast number of people with different ideas on a daily basis improves your level of gaming. Such as hanging out on the sissy boy vent.

So if somebody were to take the time to make and organize a massive guild which allowed anybody to join, (anybody who jus wants to tomb of course) we would be able to establish a community of possibly hundreds of people who would be able to find tombs groups within the game. All by simply typing "LFG TOMBS" in your guild chat. There would invovle some trial and error in getting good groups, however that's a part of the game, I myself am rank 6 and still get into very horrendous rank6+ groups.

However, this would require a dedicated leader and a number of dedicated officers who would not mind maintaining a ventrillo/teamspeak2 server as well as a public forum. But if somebody can get this idea off the ground, all you unranked players can get a chance to have a community within a community to tomb with at almost any time. And with a free voicecomm available, good coordinated groups can be formed and go into tombs without a problem.

I personally do not have a problem getting a good group, I have a large network of friends and people from top guilds who are almost always ready to PVP or GVG. However, I feel that everybody should be able to enjoy the game as I do and be able to improve in every way possible.

I would like to execute this plan personally, but I may not always have the time as I have a full time job as a high school student, on top of which I have promised a good friend of mine to help him out with his guild. However, if there are some of you out there who would like to help me out with executing this idea, your time and a bit of effort is all I need. (Btw dont worry about having problems with a voice chat server or forums, I can handle it for a period of time)

Getting that many people recruited for a new guild is going to be very very difficult. And even assuming you did manage to get 100 people together in this guild, I doubt it would work. The good players would end up being annoyed at being paired up with bad players, the bad players will get sick of being shut out... Plus I don't really see the big difference between spamming LFG in Guild chat, or in Tombs all chat where they would be otherwise.

Navaros · Jan 08, 2006, 08:11 AM // 08:11

I appreciate OP's idea but I do not think it is practical.

If you make a Guild full of people who take anyone who wants to play, then your win/loss ratio will be no different than any random unranked PUG who take anyone wants to play into the PUG. In short: your Guild is gonna lose most of the time hence the traditional paradigm of being in a Guild for the sake of having a successful team would not apply to your Guild.

Which kind of defeats the purpose of having such a Guild in the first place, doesn't it? Unless the sole purpose of the Guild is to assemble groups quickly that are destined to lose from a batch of players all organized into one place. In which case, I can see why that would be slightly better than having to assemble losing groups from assorted random players by spamming in Tombs every time.

minor · Jan 08, 2006, 04:12 PM // 16:12

If u honestly believe that someone of low rank has to be a noob and high rank means ur leet u haven't been playing the same game as the rest of us...

Iway only to rank 6 is a noob they have no clue about a lot of the game

Some ppl in gvg guilds that don't do tombs but are high on the ladder not a noob

we all laughed in my guild the other night we were beating spanish most wanted and one of theirs flashes rank 9 emote. LOL!! So freaking what!!! As i have stated before i have respect for ppl who earned fame through good playing but to say rank proves anything;other than sheer hours played in tombs is silly. If u played tombs everyday since beta u would have to be a least rank 6.

I pwnd U · Jan 08, 2006, 07:16 PM // 19:16

i would make this r2 and below. im r1 cause i just started and i cant get into those r3+ teams cause most are IWAY and im a monk. thats ok ive found a great group of guys to play in the tombs w/. i stick w/ them and random pugs and spike groups. i just dont like the all r3+ only crap. its stupid. ive beat plenty of those groups while not being in a ranked group so id just look for a group your good w/ and go w/ it.

megaforcetkd · Jan 09, 2006, 01:36 AM // 01:36

zZz you made me login - I just HAD to post here.

Yesterday my team beat a rank 9+ group - I'm rank 1 o.O.

Shen Xi · Jan 09, 2006, 03:16 PM // 15:16

so? what were the rest of your team lieka dn what were you playing?

Everyone has off days, and also people test out new builds in tombs as well...

I pwnd U · Jan 09, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

ya people are testing out new builds since the ladder is locked and since the world championships have started. (they take a long tiem to finish usually) but ya ive had a balanced group beat a r9 team but it was a new build i had never seen so i know they were trying something out. ive beat plenty of r6+ teams w/ a good ranger spike group (not rated) so i mean its a matter of if they are testing and if u have the counter build for what they are running.

Homsar · Jan 13, 2006, 04:58 PM // 16:58

when it comes to finding horendous r6+ groups theres an easy what to identify the problem. IMO, Iway has destroyed rank. Its destroyed the entire meaning of it. We have IWAY players that are close to rank 10 now, and what if it gets nerfed? Are you gonna want a r10 iway player in your pug? Probably not, and lets not forget those r9 plus pugs, Ive played in them being only r6 myself and i know people expect things, like heals and interupts and such at a given point, its called teamwork and strategy. While most iway rely's on the skill of fast res'ing and droping EoE and hitting soft targets first. what does that get you. Not much.

Notice how America doesnt have favor anymore? Its because iway cant hold halls. Is it a decent build, yes. Is it a build that requires brains and creativity? no. People are lazy and dont and/or cant think up of new creative builds to challenge us.

As a result of iway, most of the Decent PvP'ers in GW now dont tomb, they stick to gvg, where the more balanced and creative builds are.

While War Machine runs a crazy 6 warrior split build, its so creative and so no t iway.

Its really sad when ive played my ass off trying to get a tiger while getting good at the same time, and someone else gets a tiger in 2 months of IWAY, its not fair, and it ruined the status symbol of me having a wolf. It makes me mad.

Theres my 2 cents. Go on. Flame away

Bloodweasel · Jan 14, 2006, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homsar

Notice how America doesnt have favor anymore? Its because iway cant hold halls. Is it a decent build, yes. Is it a build that requires brains and creativity? no. People are lazy and dont and/or cant think up of new creative builds to challenge us.

Please delete this if it is considered too political. I consider it historical however.

During the Cold War ;- (NATO = mostly USA, Warsaw = mostly Russia)

NATO relied on elite units, highly trained and very well equiped, to ensure no one bothered them.

The Warsaw Pact relied on lots of identical and replaceable units, slowly using the same tactic to grind to a win, in MASSIVE numbers to ensure that no one bothered them.

IWAY is the Warsaw way. Endless numbers, forcing people to counter with an identical style (IWAY vs IWAY is funny to watch, SLUGFEST, limited tactics and much luck) or a specific Anti build, useless against non IWAY.

You wonder why America (the Server) doesn't hold sway? It because they are emulating on tactics they (NATO) have proven fail in the real world.

Guild = ELITE military unit. Not rinse and repeat build that anybody can copy. Get creative and learn to play with ANY PuG you join then you can claim you have team work ability AND your own skill! Then you are an asset in GvG or random PvP such as HoH

Work on a BALANCED build that has 1 anti-IWAY specialist (Airblinder or mezzer or whatever). Then you can fight off ANY build + waste IWAY. I suggest the Airblinder as it works vs any Warrior or Ranger heavy build and has enough skills to spike casters.

Yanman.be · Jan 14, 2006, 08:58 AM // 08:58

the post above makes no sense...gw ain't the world...
america cannot win halls because the nato has bad tactics? ...aight i though i was crazy

Ghost Recon · Jan 14, 2006, 10:28 AM // 10:28

You just need to know how to talk to people when i was rank 1 (35 fame) i got myself into a guild r3+ ranger spike team as a healer, he gave me a chance i proved myself and when ever the guild went to Tombs i was Wispered if i wanted to come or not. If you ask for a chance most people will give you one, one of my mates is Rank 4 and he is in a Rank 6+ Guild.

Bloodweasel · Jan 14, 2006, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

the post above makes no sense...gw ain't the world...
america cannot win halls because the nato has bad tactics? ...aight i though i was crazy

I guess that analogy is beyond you then. And that you don't read.

America won't win if it follows tactics shown by others to be ineffectual.

NATO showed that highly trained units will beat any tactics thrown at them, regardless of the shear number of identical units thrown at them.

SURE, it was never tried practically. On paper, however, the superior training and skills of the NATO forces was enough to stop any attempt by the Warsaw ones. So Warsaw never invaded...

The difference is if one one wants to train hard enough to be Marine/SEAL elite enought to beat all comers. IWAY is like the undefeatable hoards of a Soviet invasion. If can be defeated by trained, coordinated groups, like NATO forces. However, the NATO forces have to be good enough to fight off IWAY (Warsaw) or any other opponents.

DarkerHelmet · Jan 14, 2006, 04:36 PM // 16:36

I can tell you, from a low ranked player wich IMO doesn't have anything to do with skill whatsoever, that rank is completely destroying my need to PvP in Tombs.

I played since GW launched, mostly PvE at first but I soon discovered the Tombs. I think it didn't even had any ranks at that time, but I can be mistaken.

I do know that in the first few months Ele's were most wanted and nobody even thought of Rangers. If you weren't a monk or ele it was allready difficult enough to enter a group (I was ranger at that time and nobody took me). Unfortunately Europe kinda sucked at first and allthough I did progress a few rounds at times we always seemed to smash into Koreans :|.

Anyway, I soon realized that a good team is vital for succes and I needed a lot of practice in different ways to fight. So I joined a guild and practised in the Arena's and such. Unfortunately I couldn't get into the Tombs with my guildies (small guild) often and I played with random ppl for a while.

I got a little break from GW, and started playing a few months ago. Then I tried Tombs again and wtf; people are all high on ranks all of a sudden and it's nearly impossible to join any team cause all are going; r3+ or higher crap. I tried for a few times, but after having no team after 30+ minutes I said goodbye to the Tombs.

I'm pretty sure a lot if not most newcomers are scared off like this, it's just absurd. It's like someone stated in a post above; people are too lazy to help eachother and only want the most easy way out; make a group of proffessions that are build around just a few skills that have proven to work. This indeed shifts cause ArenaNet will nerf some profession skills just to make place for another skill that can dominate. Although I don't see a solution to this problem the way it shows itself in the Tombs is just very annoying to me. In some games we would call this focussing on one aspect to dominate others nothing less then an exploit.

I think the origin of the Tombs problem is in the awards it gives to the winner. Because there is actually a nice price at the end of the Tombs groups don't want to loose. In the Arena's there is no big price to win and I don't see the groups being so focussed on getting high ranked players there. I like the Arena's a lot because it's easy to get into a group (compared to Tombs) people mostly aren't so arrogant to call themselves gods like in the Tombs and most of the time if you ask for advice you'll get it instead of being kicked out of the Tombs team right away for asking help.

Even in PvE I sometimes stumble into a group that selects by lvl, which IMO is total crap, I've finished the game with 3 of my 4 chars and I can play the game. Until the Desert there really isn't much to worry about, heck you can even play the game without monks, something most teams don't even understand. Then I really laugh hard if I see this team of high lvl-ed players just mindlessly charge into mobs, die very quickly, and call all the monks noobs, rofl.

The fact is that most guys that scream loud about their ranks/lvl mostly are just crappy players with no other skills then what they read on the internet or what the hear from friends. Then they come online and shout around as if they were gods. The Tombs just bring out the worst of player arrogance and I don't like it, thus I leave it alone until I find enough pvp friends to make a group outside the tombs and play and practise with. The normal go to Tombs and have fun with a group option is long gone.

tafy69 · Jan 14, 2006, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Its hard to help newbies cos IWAY will just steamroll you if any1 does a mistake.

Bloodweasel · Jan 15, 2006, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by tafy69

Its hard to help newbies cos IWAY will just steamroll you if any1 does a mistake.

Well it sure is if you bail from the group the moment a mistake is made or you lose the fight. So many players want the easy win and leave when the group they are in needs polishing.

There is NO penalty for losing in HoH. It doesn't even count the number of times you have entered. So why not take a group that might be a bit random and get it working? I have seen people waiting for hours to build a R3+ party, just recruiting and not getting to play cos they are too fussy.

Everyone makes mistakes, everyone loses sometime or other. So why not point out the mistake and try again? Soon everyone will be anti-IWAY specialists as they are the most common opponent type encountered.

One of the best parties I have been in lost the 1st 4 fights 1st round (not ghosts) then went on to collect me a bundle of fame.

dargon · Jan 15, 2006, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Mistakes happen in both hoh and gvg. The point is to not let them get to you. Simply pull back, regroup for another push, and go again. This happened to me earlier tonight in a gvg. We were doing well, though our callers was a little slow on his calls, no biggie though. We had pushed into the opponents hall and then their runner managed to get the flag. Our runner died trying to get it back and their runner dropped a catapult load onto part of our team. We simply pulled back to the flag stand, retook it and then grabbed a morale boost to remove some dp. Pushed back into their base just as VoD began and won the match. Other teams would have had a fit at the catapult death and simply quit out at that point.

IWAY is tough to deal with given it's chaotic nature, but it's far from invulnerable, sometimes you just need to adjust your strategy a little bit to deal with a new situation. The moment you become inflexible is the moment your team will loose any and all effectiveness.

DarkerHelmet · Jan 15, 2006, 11:56 AM // 11:56

I don't think it's in anybody's interest to play PvP with only one real good set of skills. Eventually people will get bored with the same gameplay all the time.

Nerfing skills obviously doesn't work since they did it many times before only to see other skills take over. So what could be the solution?.

One of the problems is that with a certain skill comes a certain profession. The result is that teams are build around 1 profession mostly. Could restricting the amount of professions help here?.

Or perhaps concentrate on the skills?. So that a (certain) skill is only allowed to be used by a limited amount of professions. If you join a group with a maximum amount of skills and you carry the skill it would leave a blank spot?. This option doesn't have to be linked to all skills IMO, ArenaNet could leave the skills like they are and adjust the maximum amount of a certain skill per group by closely monitoring PvP play. This will take while but eventually they will reach a certain balance I think.

Any other suggestions?.

Bloodweasel · Jan 16, 2006, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Quote: