Curse

tastegw · Jan 11, 2006, 03:58 AM // 03:58

ok, for those of you (i feel sad for you if you still cant do it)
who cant seem to beat iway on a regular basis, here are a few suggestions of things or skills to bring with you in your tombs group.

my most uncommon method:

Sympathetic Visage - Enchantment Spell
For 8-18 seconds, whenever target ally is hit by a melee attack, all adjacent foes lose all adrenaline and 3 energy.

bring that on one or two of your members and toss it up on one or two of your casters and watch the dmg output from all the warriors (nearby)drop instantly

some other lesser used skills:

Soothing Images
Glimmering Mark {Elite}
Eruption
Blurred Vision (not the best skill in the world, but there are some good anti war/ranger skills to combine with this)

more common skills:

Spiteful Spirit {Elite}
Shadow of Fear
Faintheartedness
Enfeebling Blood
*note ( combine shadow of fear + enfeebling blood and iway dmg is allmost next to nothing)
dust trap
throw dirt
watch yourself
frenzy

these are just a few of the vast selection of easy iway counters and even for ranger spike groups.
combine some of these skills together for maximum effects.
if your smart enough to choose the right combos for this counter, you can still make a very effective team build to deal with other types of tombs teams you will encounter along the way to hoh.

i do not suggest overloading deffensive heavy skills on your team build because this will decrease your teams dmg output and may cost you a few matches.

here is my take on what i think is probably the best 2 skills to combo 2gether to work great against not only iway but ranger spike as well.

on your curses necro (if you have one on your team) have him run enfeebling blood)
also have a character that can run the skill "blurred vision"

now your probably thinking, well conditions are easy removed. and your right. but on a well casted eB you can spread that weakness to more than just the rangers and that prot monk has 10 seconds to get it off everyone you hit with it before you can cast it again.

since you brought blurred vision, the perfect cover hex for this would be rust, both hexes are aoe hexes. i choose blurred vision because it works against rangers unlike ward against melee and ward of foes.

i hope alot of you read this because i really havent seen very many ppl at all bring enfeebling blood to tombs besides the groups i make, and its really one of the best warrior - ranger debuffers out there.

enjoy.

btw, i hope you caught on to that last one

Pinch · Jan 11, 2006, 04:02 AM // 04:02

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. You're missing the top two choices; Ward vs. Melee and Aegis.

btw, relying on conditions to stop a team is a bad idea, because conditions are so easily removed.

tastegw · Jan 11, 2006, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinch

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. You're missing the top two choices; Ward vs. Melee and Aegis.

btw, relying on conditions to stop a team is a bad idea, because conditions are so easily removed.

lol you dont read much do you

i didnt mention aegis because that skill should be in allmost every team build involving a prot monk, so its a no brainer. as for the ward vs melee, read more and you will see i did mention it.

i also covered the part about the conditions. a prot monk cannot keep spamming mend ale and or restore conditions the entire game. he has 7 other skills he NEEDS to use when facing a balanced team. thus making that weakness stick to 1 or more of the ranger spikers dramaticly lowering the total spike damage. martyr is perhaps the only scary skill we can say about this.

and do yourself a favor, plz dont tell me i dont know what im talkin about again. thanks

Quote:

now your probably thinking, well conditions are easy removed. and your right. but on a well casted eB you can spread that weakness to more than just the rangers and that prot monk has 10 seconds to get it off everyone you hit with it before you can cast it again.

Quote:

i choose blurred vision because it works against rangers unlike ward against melee and ward of foes.

fast quoted from my original post for your easy reading issues.

Red Locust · Jan 11, 2006, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Keep the trash out of this thread, please. I'll put in my two cents, shadow of fear and faintheartedness do a lot of good vs. iway. You can easily keep that stuff on all the warriors, cutting their damage down drastically.

tastegw · Jan 11, 2006, 04:44 AM // 04:44

edit: pinches last post was deleated, and this post was made because of his last post.
basicly he said why not just say bring aegis and ward of melee and be done with it. so i wrote the following:

because aegis and ward of melee dont allways cut it. plus they both are seen so very often

aegis is a 30 second recharge and if that gets interupted you have a long wait before you can cast it again, ward of melee can do you more harm than good when the iways neco casts wells inside your ward of melee, now you must move out of your ward because you cant cast your aegis thru that well of prophane or any other enchantment for that matter. staying in one spot is not allways the best way to approach an iway team, also, ward of melee will cause your casters to group up and get chain nailed by the 1 or 2 trappers on that iway. by this time, your prot monk is spending all his/her energy rending conditions that he/she may not even have enough for that aegis coming up.

so by me saying all you need to do is bring ward of melee and aegis to beat iway is about as dumb as all 3 of your posts you have made here so far.
also, what are you going to do with a ranger spike team if your only defense for it is a 2 second cast "aegis" that only lasts 9-13 seconds out of a 30 second recharge.

wouldnt you rather have aegis as your backup skill for down times on your other "true" counters?

im sure you can think untraditional for once, aegis and ward of melee ARE NOT the only two skills you need to bring if you want to survive on a consistant basis vs iway and ranger spike or any other heavy "phy dmg" heavy build.

i hope your understanding why i didnt mention those overly used skills you say.

plz im not trying to start a fight over here, made this thread to help others out and all you can do is lead them right back in the wrong direction with your ward of melee and aegis tatic.

ManadartheHealer · Jan 11, 2006, 05:51 AM // 05:51

ViM Trappers will stop IWAYers dead in their tracks.

Divine Elemental · Jan 11, 2006, 05:56 AM // 05:56

This one Relies
on Shadow of Fear + Blured Vision for Anti-Iway.
It Kinda Screws Them Up.. by 50-0 Damage
Since Both are AoE Hexes, Most of Them Idiots Will Get Hit.... Resulting in Bah Dumbass >_>

Aegis + Guardian + SoD is Kinda in Every Build right now, Or Should Be Atleast.
Bonds Screws Iway. Eles Rangers
Mostly Playing Smart.

tastegw · Jan 11, 2006, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divine Elemental

This one Relies
on Shadow of Fear + Blured Vision for Anti-Iway.
It Kinda Screws Them Up.. by 50-0 Damage
Since Both are AoE Hexes, Most of Them Idiots Will Get Hit.... Resulting in Bah Dumbass >_>

Aegis + Guardian + SoD is Kinda in Every Build right now, Or Should Be Atleast.
Bonds Screws Iway. Eles Rangers
Mostly Playing Smart.

good post

Patrograd · Jan 11, 2006, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Aegis and guardian on your prot monk, heal party on your sb infuser, goes without saying. Ward against melee and ward against foes, not to stand around in (you never want to be still against IWAY) but to run through. Spiteful is great, as long as you can cover it effectively, as is as form of degen based damage (conditions from a trapper, hexes etc). Good corpse control. keep your ghostly hero with you where you can save him quickly (deny the IWAy team sig recharges), dont leave him back in base. Frozen soil (IWAY teams dont like frozen soil much, they are heavily reliant on rez sigs).

keep moving. First of all move forwards to meet them, make them put down their spirits. Then pull back out of spirit range. Send your warrior (if you have one) to hunt any new spirits they place near to you. Keep dropping wards (and traps if you have them) and running through them, keeping yourself mobile around the map while you wait for your degen to slowly kill them off.

All of these are things you pretty much need anyway. A degen based build will have more success thana spike based build in my experience. Saying all this a good IWAY team is as hard to beat as a good anything, and there isnt anything guaranteed to save a poor team from a good IWAY, or even a good team from a good IWAY.

tafy69 · Jan 11, 2006, 11:00 AM // 11:00

martyr is also very usefull to help your team kite succesfully.

Personally I rush the IWAY team from the beginning and take out the trappers as they cast NR and Winnowing, the warrior would shock/gale the casting and kill the trapper.

The ranger will eventually be ressed and cast his spirit but the warriors spirits(eoe, pred) should have been killed by this point.

Make sure your protter uses Prot spirit vs IWAY, so many dont use this skill vs iway, it doesnt help taking 100+ critical hits in the back. oh and dont stand around in wards unless the trappers are dead.

Yabba · Jan 11, 2006, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperJ24

since you brought blurred vision, the perfect cover hex for this would be rust, both hexes are aoe hexes. i choose blurred vision because it works against rangers unlike ward against melee and ward of foes.

i like you

for the same reason i`m using a water ele in my teambuild doing exactly the same.

i always thought i`m the only one *g*

Kabale · Jan 11, 2006, 03:36 PM // 15:36

You've mentioned a lot of skills which could be totally useless if not facing melee/ranged characters, hence you will be weak against casters. Fair enough, 90% of tombs is IWAY & more and more ranger spike is showing up all the time...

As long as you have monks that know what they're doing and someone taking care of corpses (consume), your fine. You should definately have put consume corpse in your list, as I consider it to be THE most important, right after the 'monks that know what they're doing' part.

Some general monk tactics... if you're running a passive prot & two healers, coordinate Aegises (you should have two copies, or if not you should have something else like WvsF or WvsM), and coordinate seeds, balling up on whoever is seeded. The offense of the team should focus on the trappers (and for the love of god, don't go soloing necro's as this puts pressure on your monks as they try and heal you because you got chased by warriors). Always make sure the ghostly is within your range so you can tend to him.

If you have a bonder, same as above, but rotate seeds on the bonder and only the bonder. He should be permanently seeded with 2 x seeds with 20% longer enchant staves. With the AoE nature of a seed, and the constant 'damage' taken on the bonder from all the players in your team getting hit, the heals will be insane and will keep you alive. All you have to do is make sure that someone is consuming EVERY corpse around so that a profane doesn't go up. If it does, you're screwed.

lishi · Jan 11, 2006, 04:24 PM // 16:24

While is not hard to read skill list and find good couter to iway the hard is HOW TO play agaist them. here some tip

NEVER , NEVER LEAVE THE GHOST BACK have a monk take thim.

NEVER , NEVER LEAVE THEY KILL THE GHOST , leave them kill him only if they dont get morale(most of ppl get the ghost killed in relic , bad idea.)

Stay inside the ward dont mean ball up. you can easy spread in the ward agaist melee.

leave the order necro alone , he is too back , and normaly inside very nasty trap. if you try to kill me you will get you killed or one of the monk have to come to save you , meaning he will get killed.

Most of monk forget to use heal party , shout in vent USE HEAL PARTY DAMM!

If you manage to kill a trapper or the dead nerco make sure you watch his body , he will get ressed.

Divine Elemental · Jan 12, 2006, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabale

You've mentioned a lot of skills which could be totally useless if not facing melee/ranged characters, hence you will be weak against casters. Fair enough, 90% of tombs is IWAY & more and more ranger spike is showing up all the time...

As long as you have monks that know what they're doing and someone taking care of corpses (consume), your fine. You should definately have put consume corpse in your list, as I consider it to be THE most important, right after the 'monks that know what they're doing' part.

Some general monk tactics... if you're running a passive prot & two healers, coordinate Aegises (you should have two copies, or if not you should have something else like WvsF or WvsM), and coordinate seeds, balling up on whoever is seeded. The offense of the team should focus on the trappers (and for the love of god, don't go soloing necro's as this puts pressure on your monks as they try and heal you because you got chased by warriors). Always make sure the ghostly is within your range so you can tend to him.

If you have a bonder, same as above, but rotate seeds on the bonder and only the bonder. He should be permanently seeded with 2 x seeds with 20% longer enchant staves. With the AoE nature of a seed, and the constant 'damage' taken on the bonder from all the players in your team getting hit, the heals will be insane and will keep you alive. All you have to do is make sure that someone is consuming EVERY corpse around so that a profane doesn't go up. If it does, you're screwed.

But this is
How To Fight IWAY Thread Is It Not.

a cadet · Jan 12, 2006, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Personally, I found that a bonder isnt your best bet vs IWAY. What with Natures Renewal getting dropped, you may end up with a bonder trying desperatly to maintain the bonds, and possibly getting stuck at that 0 energy regeneration, 2 life bonds up, his Blessed Signet distracted and him desperately trying to get his energy back.

In my opinion, an active Prot Monk that focuses only on spamming Restore Conditions, Aegis, and Protective Spirit would work far better. Possibly Guardian, if only to ensure an important spell such as Aegis or Healing Seed goes uninterupted (if you try to spam Guardian, you will run out of energy, which you need to spam Restore Conditions, something i feel is far more important).

Just a suggestion on the Prot monk.

Divine Elemental · Jan 12, 2006, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by a cadet

Personally, I found that a bonder isnt your best bet vs IWAY. What with Natures Renewal getting dropped, you may end up with a bonder trying desperatly to maintain the bonds, and possibly getting stuck at that 0 energy regeneration, 2 life bonds up, his Blessed Signet distracted and him desperately trying to get his energy back.

In my opinion, an active Prot Monk that focuses only on spamming Restore Conditions, Aegis, and Protective Spirit would work far better. Possibly Guardian, if only to ensure an important spell such as Aegis or Healing Seed goes uninterupted (if you try to spam Guardian, you will run out of energy, which you need to spam Restore Conditions, something i feel is far more important).

Just a suggestion on the Prot monk.

Will be Bad.
leaving him imobile
and Spam Restore?....
id rather Take SoD it solves all ur needs
itll also put alot of pressure on his energy.

this one says a healer with martyr is better

Tronny07 · Jan 12, 2006, 03:27 AM // 03:27

ok,not to be negative,or of that matter...spiteful spirit...etc...sounded pretty good in that build...only thing is...i have gone against so many anti-iway builds,the whole deal,ward against melees,as u exclaimed,blurred vision...and so on...and this is not with a guild,or an organized group(except me and my friend),the main thing in the group,the important part of the group,your always going for the necro,cause u think its a curse or tainted,obviously...take him down...and monk as the 2nd person in line...but with a ranger spiker builds ive setup,we have a very different situation...we drop frozen soil(which i know alot will call stupid,cause it has its negative affect on us,dont worry)and its very common,for the ele to come in first,or the necro,ive seen this many times...eles try to be commando,with the necro...and if my team does not have an ivory bow,or atleast a long bow,i would be happy to provide one,and all we do is camp spawn...spam the choking gas/incendiary combo to interrupt the monk/necros...it works perfectly...and as one guy said,dont put a heavy defense,cause on that build,the only real attack i saw was spiteful spirit,and that can be negated with the 2 heal monks you have,all u need is a heal party(i know theirs going to be alot more attacks,i just saw ss only =/)anti-iway teams are very unique,and i know not all are the same...some are really good at it...some just cant think for crap...gettign an anti-iway team is really easy...posting it...(GLF ELE W/ WARD AGAISNT MELEE)but at the same time u can get owned,either waiting for an i-way team,or and ele spike build rapes you...so i think theris no way of stopping an i-way build,unless its a horrible iway build...

Divine Elemental · Jan 12, 2006, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tronny07

ok,not to be negative,or of that matter...spiteful spirit...etc...sounded pretty good in that build...only thing is...i have gone against so many anti-iway builds,the whole deal,ward against melees,as u exclaimed,blurred vision...and so on...and this is not with a guild,or an organized group(except me and my friend),the main thing in the group,the important part of the group,your always going for the necro,cause u think its a curse or tainted,obviously...take him down...and monk as the 2nd person in line...but with a ranger spiker builds ive setup,we have a very different situation...we drop frozen soil(which i know alot will call stupid,cause it has its negative affect on us,dont worry)and its very common,for the ele to come in first,or the necro,ive seen this many times...eles try to be commando,with the necro...and if my team does not have an ivory bow,or atleast a long bow,i would be happy to provide one,and all we do is camp spawn...spam the choking gas/incendiary combo to interrupt the monk/necros...it works perfectly...and as one guy said,dont put a heavy defense,cause on that build,the only real attack i saw was spiteful spirit,and that can be negated with the 2 heal monks you have,all u need is a heal party(i know theirs going to be alot more attacks,i just saw ss only =/)anti-iway teams are very unique,and i know not all are the same...some are really good at it...some just cant think for crap...gettign an anti-iway team is really easy...posting it...(GLF ELE W/ WARD AGAISNT MELEE)but at the same time u can get owned,either waiting for an i-way team,or and ele spike build rapes you...so i think theris no way of stopping an i-way build,unless its a horrible iway build...

how can one say droping soil in a Ranger Spike is bad.. unless ur facing a really good Spike team..
Dropping Soil take cares of iway as ur a Spike Group >_>
since u spike and drop a target. its kinda... self explantory.. as it should be

Tronny07 · Jan 12, 2006, 04:20 AM // 04:20

im saying,droppin soil is bad,cause if ur going against a really smart iway,spike,or ele spike build,dropping soil will screw u over,using soil takes planning...all im saying

XvArchonvX · Jan 12, 2006, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tronny07

im saying,droppin soil is bad,cause if ur going against a really smart iway,spike,or ele spike build,dropping soil will screw u over,using soil takes planning...all im saying

I think a spiker team is the only team that can get away with dropping frozen before ensuing in battle since they kill so quickly (when done right). All builds can benefit from it as long as they keep a good eye on the battle and drop it at the right time.