Curse

Byron · Feb 09, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23

I've hit heroes's ascent pretty hard these past few weeks, got my second rank, and came to a few realizations:
The build doesn't matter so much as the people within it, most of all the party leader. You can build whatever build you would like, but if the leader is stupid or unexperienced, and the players dont work together, then you will inevitably lose.
Just yesterday my unranked HoH Iway team beat a smite/balanced team of The Shattered Hand, a pro guild ranked 89, in the courthouse. They grabbed the altar first, then we took it while the third team stood out of the action. It certainly wasn't because we were better than them, but it was our cooperation and the experience of the party leader that got us past them.
That's the real HoH problem: a good build needs good people to win. And rank tends to apply less and less, since those many of those rank 9+ guys seem to have an ego problem that hurts the team in the end.
And if any of you Tsh people are out there, how is it that you lost? I felt like a giant when we toppled your team.

striderkaaru · Feb 09, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Just yesterday my unranked HoH Iway team beat a smite/balanced team of The Shattered Hand, a pro guild ranked 29, in the courthouse.

*hands byron flameproof jacket*

better put this on.

Skuld · Feb 09, 2006, 05:49 PM // 17:49

nice, i hadnt done HA before and our unranked team of pve players beat 2 100~ and a 200~ guild lol

Racthoh · Feb 09, 2006, 05:50 PM // 17:50

MATH is #14 on the ladder last I checked, and I've only ever seen them not use IWAY once. As soon as it clicks in people's heads that warriors are the offensive kings in the game they'll start to realize why IWAY works the way it does.

Smiting team, as I understand, lots of nice soft 60 AL targets that a lone axe warrior could take down in about 10 seconds. They probably had no snares, no blinding, no hexes, and just flat out thought they could outdamage warriors.

Yanman.be · Feb 09, 2006, 06:14 PM // 18:14

smiting should work against warriors..

iway just wins because every fault gets penalized ( sp? )

Sol_Vie · Feb 09, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Warriors really are the damage kings of the game. They can deal the most damage consistently. Yes, spike groups can deal a lot of damage right out, but a team of just as many warriors just attacking (i.e. without skills) can deal a whole lot of damage.

IWAY teams do hold Halls, just not often. This isn't because of the build. This is because of those people using the build. As Byron said, it is hardly the build that matters. It is the skill and teamwork of the party.

I tried running a necro spike once and, to put it frankly, it didn't work. Yeah necro spikes aren't that good, but the damage was there. The reason we didn't do well was because we were not organized and I was inexperienced.

Divinus Stella · Feb 09, 2006, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Warriors would be the damage king is they could land their attacks, but thanks the buffs and snares they are average at best.
Beating high ranked guilds on courtyard with an IWAY pug is hardly an achievement, i expect you only won because the other 2 teams wore eathother down.

RotteN · Feb 09, 2006, 06:55 PM // 18:55

there's a counter to everything in this game, and yes, people like ract are realy aware of the counters to warriors out there. I usually play warrior in GvG, and yes, things like guardian, shield of deflection and aegis give a big hit to your damage output, but that does not stop a warrior from putting pressure, infact, it is a great example that your warrior is indeed a thread, and the other team will have to keep up their block/evade stuff in order to neutralise that thread, waisting both energy and time on something as "stupid" as a simple warrior just hacking away at you, without using any skills. That, my dear, is pressure, and that is exactly what warriors do. They do not kill in one blink of an eye like spike teams, they make sure the monks are too occupied keeping them from hitting to spend all of their energy and time on healing/protecting partymembers.

as for replying to the original post : yes, a build alone is NOT what makes you win, it's the people playing it, and rank is NOT something that reflex skill, it reflex experience while playing tombs, a R9 warrior will suck a lot more at being a monk than a R2 monk (hell, i wouldn't wanna play a monk alright). also, tombs is different from GvG, so it's not that wierd you win from highranked guilds in tombs, for all you know, they're trying something out, or testing some new members.

Sk8tborderx · Feb 09, 2006, 07:02 PM // 19:02

if you do not believe warriors are the BEST class for dealing damage then please read the thread on why nuking sucks.

IWAY teams do hold halls as said before. You can see MATH winning and holding halls all the time.

Byron · Feb 09, 2006, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

*hands byron flameproof jacket*

better put this on.

Thanks chief. In an hour or so, I've gotten a half-dozen hostile replies. I guess my amazement at downing a pro guild wasn't well founded.

tomcruisejr · Feb 09, 2006, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

MATH is #14 on the ladder last I checked, and I've only ever seen them not use IWAY once. As soon as it clicks in people's heads that warriors are the offensive kings in the game they'll start to realize why IWAY works the way it does.

we realized it way before the ensign's "why nuking sucks" article. remember, we and other IWAY teams beat iQ when they were on spike setup (old iQ gvg build was with no warriors) in tombs months ago, thus popularizing the "IWAY > iQ" chant.

and to op, here's what gaile thinks.

do what you wanna do. dont mind if they say its noob. if they do theyre just jealous.

beating TSH with your pug proved that you did play good at that moment, making you better than them. dont humble yourself too much.

glenn_rolfe · Feb 09, 2006, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

And if any of you Tsh people are out there, how is it that you lost? I felt like a giant when we toppled your team.

well i know these guys pretty well. They're quite organised in GvG (solid group in GvG), but in tombs they play flakey/weird builds and actually lack tombs experience. Their rating now in GvG would be around 80 I would think.

Alter maps have an interesting dynamic though, and even the nubbiest of teams can come in for the late cap if the other 2 aren't paying attention.

glenn_rolfe · Feb 09, 2006, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx

if you do not believe warriors are the BEST class for dealing damage then please read the thread on why nuking sucks.

IWAY teams do hold halls as said before. You can see MATH winning and holding halls all the time.

MATH don't hold with IWAY, they hold with an EoE bomb, plain and simple. No matter how they dress it up, they just EoE bomb everyone after a fake skirmish.

If you lose to that, you need to get your head examined.

Divine Elemental · Feb 09, 2006, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn_rolfe

MATH don't hold with IWAY, they hold with an EoE bomb, plain and simple. No matter how they dress it up, they just EoE bomb everyone after a fake skirmish.

If you lose to that, you need to get your head examined.

Exactly my point
IWAY cant hold for more than 3-5
eh?

Sapper2289 · Feb 09, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

LOL hey swordy!

@byron - Iway beats a lot of good teams. You REALLY need good monks to be able to handle iway unless u want to waste skill/attributes on chain aegis, etc, which weaken you against other teams. Congrats on beating us though. lol

Uhh... my only complaint with iway isnt the build itself... just that it's all I ever see in tombs now. A few days ago I fought on every map up to HoH, and every team we fought was iway (one of the other 2 on courtyard was balanced, lol) I mean, I sympathize with new players getting some rank with iway fame farming.. but r6+ iway is just annoying.

The 3 best ways to get fame these days are
1. IWAY (boring)
2. Full anti-iway (run into a team without warriors=loss)
3. Well called spike (Hit a button during a countdown=boring)

Trust me, im not flaming iway players, but i think they need to do something to discourage so many iway teams... its taking the fun out of tombs.

MentalMidgit · Feb 10, 2006, 12:42 AM // 00:42

to all the people who say warriors deal the best dmg

warriors do do some decent dmg ut they r so easy to shutdown

example- blinding flash+spiteful

warriors dead. Also an AoTL necro can easily outdmg a warrior or a necro suicide edge bomb can: kill iway in one blow

Senator Tom · Feb 10, 2006, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sapper2289

The 3 best ways to get fame these days are
1. IWAY (boring)
2. Full anti-iway (run into a team without warriors=loss)
3. Well called spike (Hit a button during a countdown=boring)

what about balanaced teams? not necessarily anti-iway
or holding builds? probably the best way to hold halls (holding build = holding halls)

Nerdy · Feb 10, 2006, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Actually, I think iway is starting to die off a bit of late. Certainly in the international districts.

A lot of the people from the R3 iway circuit have completely moved away from it as soon as they hit R6.

The whole tombs thing is a bit stale at the moment. Maybe the new classes will add something and hopefully a few different maps.

Blaine Derrick · Feb 10, 2006, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

we realized it way before the ensign's "why nuking sucks" article. remember, we and other IWAY teams beat iQ when they were on spike setup (old iQ gvg build was with no warriors) in tombs months ago, thus popularizing the "IWAY > iQ" chant.

Did anyone else giggle at this?

Sapper2289 · Feb 10, 2006, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerdy

A lot of the people from the R3 iway circuit have completely moved away from it as soon as they hit R6.

Exactly... now theres a bunch of r6's running around that can only play warrior necro or trapper... but they try to play monk. r6 pugs are now useless.