Curse

CAT · Feb 03, 2006, 12:07 PM // 12:07

A monk holding boon and Veil up constantly while getting eburned isnt going to cast alot of spells.. =) You could always drain the veil as well

Boofhead · Feb 03, 2006, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Sigh, like I said, owned was a bit too strong of a word. Please stop picking at this, its just petty. My point was that focus swapping can temporarily save you from panic/ether lord, in the event that you can't just CoP them off straight away. A miswording on my part, now please drop it and let this thread carry on in due course.

Hmm... I don't see it either. Panic and Ether Lord only affect energy regen, and focus swapping will only protect you from spells which directly steal energy. Unless they are stacked with each other or with enough other debuffs so that you are actually losing energy.

wheel · Feb 03, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

What JR meant is that while they do effectively shut down your effective regen, they don't shut you down. You still have an effective mechanism with which to get quick energy to remove the hexes or hit an OoB. Swap up to your positive energy set and get a quick emergency cast, then swap back down so that you can't be energy denied further as well so that you don't start losing energy due to having negative pips. When we're talking about switching to your positive sets, usually that means to a +15 energy/-1 energy regen wand and a +27 energy/-1 energy regen offhand. You use it for emergency heals and preferably emergency OoBs, and then you swap back down to prevent energy denial and to allow unimpeded natural regen.

One thing, though. When Panic and Ether Lord are stacked on one character, If the Ether Lord is at level 12-16 (-3 energy regen), focus swapping down does prevent it draining your energy further.

SaintGreg · Feb 06, 2006, 08:14 AM // 08:14

When you have panic on you in your low energy set at 0 energy, do you regen at 2 pips or 4 pips? Reading some of your posts seem to have conflicting statements about this. Seems like it would be 2 pips, but if you had a -1 pip from ether lord + panic, then you probably wouldn't degen you would just stay at the same energy.

Have you considered running an energy drain ranger? Oath shot + mantra of signets + signet of weariness + debilitating shot. Then you get to use damage bow skills on top of that for a decent amount of damage on top of a decent amount of energy drain.

LightsEternity · Feb 06, 2006, 09:33 AM // 09:33

One thing that's very important while playing boon prot is to hide as much energy as you can.

You can achieve this through the use of a -7 energy set, which PvE characters can have the luxury of having (or PvP if you are not lazy and swap your weapons everytime you delete the char).

What it does is two-fold:
It hides your energy until you *really* need it against teams using Energy Surge/Burn, weariness, and it also allows you to use your boon prot skills at maximum efficiency with little worry of "running" out of energy. Remember that Energy cannot go negative, which means when you have a maximum total of 25 energy, you cannot go below 0. So when you swap back to your main set which has +17 energy, your maximum total is now 42 energy. Thus, 17 energy is hidden and cannot be touched.. ever. This was a *very* important technique that good monks used back in QZ/Edenial days, which is why one could argue Edrain was ok- of course it wasn't, but that's a whole different issue completely off topic. (oddly enough, most monks only used 1 weapon set during those days..)

Also, using reversal of fortune at 5 energy on your negative energy set (or primary set, but the negative energy set is much better since you dont' bottom yourself out) allows you to bypass the -2 energy calculation from boon since it is applied after the spell is done, and because energy does not go negative you're in luck.

Taurus · Feb 06, 2006, 10:58 AM // 10:58

What I do is take the +30 nrgy set and switch back to the primary whenever I need the energy regen.
Btw this post up here was one of the most useful posts around, lots of ppl dont know about that.

Esuna · Feb 06, 2006, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Play on the idea that OoB is an elite. This shutdown mesmer build can effectively put pressure on any monk - boon prot or not. I've played with it a few times in RA and HoH, with a few adjustments here and there.

Fast casting: 11
Domination: 15
Inspiration: 11

Energy Surge
Signet of Weariness
Signet of Humility
Mind Wrack/Leech Signet
Drain Enchantment
Diversion/Energy Burn
Mantra of Inscriptions
Res Sig

You can mix and match skills - but the main idea is to energy deny the monk through surge + weariness and sig of humility to lock down OoB, so they can't use it for energy. Mantra of Inscriptions is the recharge your signets faster, so make sure it's always up. Mind wrack can be for damage - or you can use leech signet for multi-purposes. Drain enchantment for energy management, getting rid of holy veil/divine boon and the like. I personally love diversion - but if you decide to use mind wrack, energy burn can be another trigger button for it.

Just be aware of rangers because they will tear up your 2s signet casts like no tomorrow.

Esuna · Feb 06, 2006, 11:29 AM // 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightsEternity

Also, using reversal of fortune at 5 energy on your negative energy set (or primary set, but the negative energy set is much better since you dont' bottom yourself out) allows you to bypass the -2 energy calculation from boon since it is applied after the spell is done, and because energy does not go negative you're in luck.

Also, can you explain this last bit? I don't understand :P

Maddie · Feb 06, 2006, 11:30 AM // 11:30

a double backfire on both monks could also work very well..

atleast one of them loses health

LightsEternity · Feb 06, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

alright to clarify- you don't need 7 energy to cast reversal of fortune under divine boon. You can cast it at 5 energy.

The reason you want to use it on your negative energy set is because you won't mess yourself over in terms of energy management.

leeky baby · Feb 06, 2006, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Only problem is Boon prots are probably running Contemplation of Purity, and most are Mo/N using OOB so you can't totaly shut them down with e-denail or Migraine.

Zeldawind · Feb 06, 2006, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeky baby

Only problem is Boon prots are probably running Contemplation of Purity, and most are Mo/N using OOB so you can't totaly shut them down with e-denail or Migraine.

Use Sig Of Humility+Mantra Of Incriptions play whit attrbutes so that you can cycle it so the monk never can get nrg from OoB and then some other skills and the monks out of nrg. Easy Smooth and well done the enemy monk is dead. Then wait a few seconds till monks ressed sig of hum again and gone is his elite. And since your teammates will keep on doing dmg the monks going to burn his nrg eventually.

JR · Feb 06, 2006, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeldawind

Use Sig Of Humility+Mantra Of Incriptions play whit attrbutes so that you can cycle it so the monk never can get nrg from OoB and then some other skills and the monks out of nrg. Easy Smooth and well done the enemy monk is dead. Then wait a few seconds till monks ressed sig of hum again and gone is his elite. And since your teammates will keep on doing dmg the monks going to burn his nrg eventually.

I would agree with you as far as arena goes. However in any kind of coordinated PvP, the monk would just call you. You would then probably find an axe warrior raging your face, or a an interrupter camping you.

Vindexus · Feb 06, 2006, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Hammer wars do quite well versus a two monk backline. If you do Earthshaker > Crushing > Mighty > Hammer Bash on a monk he's out of the picture for that entire spike. Then hit the other monk with Diversion, Shame, Blackout, Backfire, Gale, etc.

Tyrin Vermada · Feb 06, 2006, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Heres what i run:

15 Dom
10 Fast Casting
11 Inspiration
4 Illusion

1)Power Block
2)Power Drain
3)Wastrels Worry
4)Diversion
5)Distotion
6)Shatter Enchantment
7)Drain Enchantment
8)Ressurect/Res Sig

I have been running this build for a while now. I harass the prot boon monks with diversion and Wastrels Worry, then nail him with power block as soon as he throws out a guardian. As long as you can train yourself not to throw away your power block on something quick like reversal, it can be pretty reliable. Distortion helps keep that axe warrior in your face from killing you too fast, just gotta make sure you kite too so you dont lose all your energy.

glenn_rolfe · Feb 06, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

I think the general problem with mesmer builds is that they are too often looked at in isolation. People just wanna say "you're the mesmer, shut down that monk. Don't let him get off any heals"

Good monks are now smart enough to deal with most mesmer methods with focus swapping, CoP, holy veil, etc. The role of the mesmer is really a huge part of the anti-caster pressure, not total anti-caster pressure. So better to build your mesmer in combo with the other pressure, like knockdowns or ranger interrupts, DoT or high damage.

Saying that, on you're typical OOB prot in GvG, I've never had any issue in hurting them hard with a strong diversion spam.

Zeldawind · Feb 07, 2006, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

I would agree with you as far as arena goes. However in any kind of coordinated PvP, the monk would just call you. You would then probably find an axe warrior raging your face, or a an interrupter camping you.

Sorry that i forgot to say that but me and the monk work very good whit each other so im inmediatly protted when they switch to me (or any mesmer at that time so i would say call me but your going to have a hard time to kill me). But not everyone can work that well whit each other. And Interrupters are mostly our main target, for the warrior part 'W' and 'A/D' for the win (combined whit the prots ofc)

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn_rolfe

I think the general problem with mesmer builds is that they are too often looked at in isolation. People just wanna say "you're the mesmer, shut down that monk. Don't let him get off any heals"

Good monks are now smart enough to deal with most mesmer methods with focus swapping, CoP, holy veil, etc. The role of the mesmer is really a huge part of the anti-caster pressure, not total anti-caster pressure. So better to build your mesmer in combo with the other pressure, like knockdowns or ranger interrupts, DoT or high damage.

Saying that, on you're typical OOB prot in GvG, I've never had any issue in hurting them hard with a strong diversion spam.

Strong diversion is good ofc, my experience learns (as a boon prot myself) is to wait for a boon prot to cast guardian/Prot spirit then spam your diversion (make sure you have a high lvl FC to be faster than the monk ofc but i dont know diversions cast time out of my head otherwise gues when hes going to use a spell that works good enough aswell unless the monk has a high reaction speed and removes the spell instead whit help of other person)

Clamatius · Feb 09, 2006, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeldawind

Strong diversion is good ofc, my experience learns (as a boon prot myself) is to wait for a boon prot to cast guardian/Prot spirit then spam your diversion (make sure you have a high lvl FC to be faster than the monk ofc but i dont know diversions cast time out of my head otherwise gues when hes going to use a spell that works good enough aswell unless the monk has a high reaction speed and removes the spell instead whit help of other person)

Even if you have 16 FC (for some weird reason) Guardian is still faster. Base cast time for Guardian is 1s vs. 3s for Diversion. You'd have to use Conundrum or Migraine to do what you're describing and even then you'd need an unlikely score in FC.

Just spamming Diversion on them via Echo, Glyph or MoR is fairly effective. If they're busy and/or not paying enough attention you'll most likely get RoF since that usually seems to be the spam spell of choice for boon prots. Of course, as JR- points out, it seems likely that your attentions are going to be rewarded by a faceful of interrupts or pointy hardware when you do it in GvG.

tafy69 · Feb 10, 2006, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clamatius

Even if you have 16 FC (for some weird reason) Guardian is still faster. Base cast time for Guardian is 1s vs. 3s for Diversion. You'd have to use Conundrum or Migraine to do what you're describing and even then you'd need an unlikely score in FC.

Just spamming Diversion on them via Echo, Glyph or MoR is fairly effective. If they're busy and/or not paying enough attention you'll most likely get RoF since that usually seems to be the spam spell of choice for boon prots. Of course, as JR- points out, it seems likely that your attentions are going to be rewarded by a faceful of interrupts or pointy hardware when you do it in GvG.

They put a ranger on you to interupt your diversion? no problem.

Distortion + Diversion will take care of that

Teams will always do 1v1 tradeoffs, its not a counter.

flawless650 · Feb 10, 2006, 08:08 AM // 08:08

General:
-Do as small damage as possible against enemy targets, so RoF becomes useless.

Warriors:
-Fear me warriors
-Knock locking
-Disruptions/Skull Crack <--HAHAHA

Ranger:
-Interrupts (There's more than just punishing, savage, and distract.)
-Energy denial

Elementalist:
-AoE ele interrupts (Don't bother with this because it's nearly impossible to manage this against monks.)
-Spammable spells that do small damage
-Kds (Just gotta love exhaution.)

Necros:
-Necro hex spam
-Health steal (Capable of bypassing all protect enchants.)
-Spinal Shivers

Mesmers:
-Power block + interrupts
-Blackout
-Energy denial and gale (Stop them from switching then energy deny.)
-Mesmer diversion + hex spam
-Signet builds